OT: Coronavirus and General O/T Thread

[TheOtherOne]

 

[jkutswings]

Humans lack the scientific knowledge to disprove creationism. I'm not talking strictly about religious mythology here. There are plenty of other possibilities that would qualify as creationism that we simply can't claim to be impossible as of right now. A non-religious person doesn't have the luxury of leveraging faith to support their argument.

But doesn't this rely on finite creatures eventually having the collective knowledge to explain or disprove what is alleged to be infinite?

I've always been a fan of science - it's my career - but I've never understood the claim that human knowledge will eventually explain everything. By definition, wouldn't that eventually require an infinite number of scientific disciplines? Or is it just assumed that an expanding universe (assuming there's only one universe to begin with) has a finite number of things to know?

 

[RabidBadger]

If it is so darn contagious how come their is a mega church in the US that has over 7000 people attend their weekly services without face-masks and without social distancing and exactly zero people from that church have anything related to Covid. Something so deadly contagious wouldn't have 7000 people all in the same small part of the world and none of them are catching it. My aunt in her mid 60s who catches everything, including 2-3 flus every single year, has Type 1 diabetes and many other ailments came into contact with someone who had covid and she didn't catch it. If anyone could catch it she would be the one that would and yet nothing. Or how about that virtually everyone that gets it not only survives but have basically nothing more than the flu. Do you wear masks and refrain from normal living for the flu or any of the other contagions that could make you sick. There are countless things in the air known for causing all kinds of cancers, do you wear masks and refrain from normal living for those. Also want to add, the flu which has a cure kills 50-60,000 people every season.

That doesn't even begin to touch that most (95+%) of the people who have it seriously and have passed on were 70+ with known medical conditions.

Still waiting for that list of the most deadly diseases.

As for the rest of it; you seem to base your views on cherry-picked singular events and events that relate to you personally. Good on the church folk for not being super-spreaders. I'm sure they were all tested to confirm your story.

By that same logic; I hang out in Detroit all the time and have not seen a violent crime (kind of), therefore Detroit is a perfectly safe city! Also, no house in my area has been damaged by a natural disaster so everyone's house must be safe! It's all good in my hood so the entire world must be fine.

 

[RabidBadger]

According to the CDC, covid has a mortality rate of approximately 0.65%.

I'll kick it % rate with you. Influenza (the virus all Covid nay-sayers like to use as a comparison) has a death rate of about 0.1% So covid is 6 times more lethal. That's significant, eh? And, for the ghoulish sake of comparison, don't you consider losing the entire population of Grand Rapids in 10 months significant?

 

[Red Stanley]

But doesn't this rely on finite creatures eventually having the collective knowledge to explain or disprove what is alleged to be infinite?

I've always been a fan of science - it's my career - but I've never understood the claim that human knowledge will eventually explain everything. By definition, wouldn't that eventually require an infinite number of scientific disciplines? Or is it just assumed that an expanding universe (assuming there's only one universe to begin with) has a finite number of things to know?

Yes, which is why the topic of creationism is a discussion rather than an argument for those who are honest enough to admit they don't know much at all one way or the other.

 

[Red Stanley]

I'll kick it % rate with you. Influenza (the virus all Covid nay-sayers like to use as a comparison) has a death rate of about 0.1% So covid is 6 times more lethal. That's significant, eh? And, for the ghoulish sake of comparison, don't you consider losing the entire population of Grand Rapids in 10 months significant?

Considering how fast it's still spreading, the number of infected/dead will be high. We still don't have the real numbers from China and a lot of places with high population densities, so those numbers will be very high by the time the dust settles. My question is what was considered a high mortality rate before the WHO removed the criteria from the definition of pandemic.

 

[Winger98]

I'm lousy at cooking rice on the stove. For years we had one of those cheap $30 rice cookers that clicks to warm when the weight in the bowl lightens enough as water evaporates off but like all great $30 rice cookers the teflon started flaking off, we lost the little rubber piece that helped properly size the evaporate hole (?), and it started leaving a lightly burned crust at the bottom whose chipping off resulted in more teflon flaking off with it.

Which pushed my family into the dark ages of me poorly cooking rice on the stove. I followed the directions. When that resulted in awful rice I found new directions. Again. And again. And again.

Long story short, we quit having rice nearly so often.

Then I tried it in a pressure cooker. Folks, if you're as inept at rice as I am, or if you've never had rice (WTH is wrong with you?), an electric pressure cooker makes it absurdly easy and crazy tasty. Noticeably better than the $30 rice cooker. Stupid easy to remember ratios (1:1, 10 minutes high pressure). And if you want to throw some onion and orange pepper in with it....it presses flavor from the veggies into the rice.

I have like four cups of rice in the fridge now to take out, cook up some eggs, and make quick fried rice for whatever meal I want. Best of all it gets actual use out of that damn pressure cooker.

 

[FabricDetails]

I'm lousy at cooking rice on the stove. For years we had one of those cheap $30 rice cookers that clicks to warm when the weight in the bowl lightens enough as water evaporates off but like all great $30 rice cookers the teflon started flaking off, we lost the little rubber piece that helped properly size the evaporate hole (?), and it started leaving a lightly burned crust at the bottom whose chipping off resulted in more teflon flaking off with it.

Which pushed my family into the dark ages of me poorly cooking rice on the stove. I followed the directions. When that resulted in awful rice I found new directions. Again. And again. And again.

Long story short, we quit having rice nearly so often.

Then I tried it in a pressure cooker. Folks, if you're as inept at rice as I am, or if you've never had rice (WTH is wrong with you?), an electric pressure cooker makes it absurdly easy and crazy tasty. Noticeably better than the $30 rice cooker. Stupid easy to remember ratios (1:1, 10 minutes high pressure). And if you want to throw some onion and orange pepper in with it....it presses flavor from the veggies into the rice.

I have like four cups of rice in the fridge now to take out, cook up some eggs, and make quick fried rice for whatever meal I want. Best of all it gets actual use out of that damn pressure cooker.

I include both brown and white rice in my meal plan; both of which are the Jasmine variety. I grew up on white rice and started eating brown rice 5 years ago. The body is NOT happy if I only eat brown rice. When I lived in Ohio I would get my rice from CAM International Market. That still a good place?

 

[Oddbob]

Still waiting for that list of the most deadly diseases.

As for the rest of it; you seem to base your views on cherry-picked singular events and events that relate to you personally. Good on the church folk for not being super-spreaders. I'm sure they were all tested to confirm your story.

By that same logic; I hang out in Detroit all the time and have not seen a violent crime (kind of), therefore Detroit is a perfectly safe city! Also, no house in my area has been damaged by a natural disaster so everyone's house must be safe! It's all good in my hood so the entire world must be fine.

Not hard to search for yourself, like at all.

Top 20 death causes in the World 2020 live — Deathmeters

 

[Oddbob]

I'll kick it % rate with you. Influenza (the virus all Covid nay-sayers like to use as a comparison) has a death rate of about 0.1% So covid is 6 times more lethal. That's significant, eh? And, for the ghoulish sake of comparison, don't you consider losing the entire population of Grand Rapids in 10 months significant?

Nothing like that is going to happen at all. Back in July the experts were predicting 2.5 million Americans alone would be dead this year from Covid, and the entire planet is not even close to that figure.

 

[jkutswings]

Not hard to search for yourself, like at all.

Top 20 death causes in the World 2020 live — Deathmeters

So the very list you provide would currently have COVID-19 as the 15th deadliest condition in the world, and that's based on an update from early September. So you'll likely see it reach top 10 by the end of the year. And that's not a serious thing to you?

Nobody is claiming that any person who gets within a football field of somebody with COVID-19 will die instantly. But for a condition that has claimed nearly a million lives, can be easily transmitted, and there are fairly simple precautions to greatly reduce the likelihood of transmission...

How is that not an important situation to address globally?

 

[Winger98]

I include both brown and white rice in my meal plan; both of which are the Jasmine variety. I grew up on white rice and started eating brown rice 5 years ago. The body is NOT happy if I only eat brown rice. When I lived in Ohio I would get my rice from CAM International Market. That still a good place?

Never got out to CAM. When I was on the east side, North Randal was getting in pretty rough shape. I think we went out there to pick the bones of a Target going out of business and that was pretty much it. I was so bad at cooking rice that I started just keeping the cheapest, most basic white rice around because I was going to make a mess of it. Our rice of choice used to be brown basmati. Since I can make a halfway decent batch of it again we'll probably start trying different varieties.

 

[Oddbob]

So the very list you provide would currently have COVID-19 as the 15th deadliest condition in the world, and that's based on an update from early September. So you'll likely see it reach top 10 by the end of the year. And that's not a serious thing to you?

Nobody is claiming that any person who gets within a football field of somebody with COVID-19 will die instantly. But for a condition that has claimed nearly a million lives, can be easily transmitted, and there are fairly simple precautions to greatly reduce the likelihood of transmission...

How is that not an important situation to address globally?

Never said it wasn't serious, just that it is blown way out of proportion how bad it is. Also I heavily question how contagious it really is. If it is so contagious than many more people should be contracting it. The province I live in has 13+ million people in it, and 800 people province wide getting it in a day is big news, and almost all of those are minimal cases and many with no symptoms and haven't heard of a death here in a decent while. Something so deadly contagious would have no trouble infecting way more people and getting past the masks (which don't even do all that much)we are all wearing.

That doesn't even talk about something many doctors have already come out and said, that we all have some corona virus in us, just in very small amounts, so many will test positive for it, and it is basically a non issue for large chunks of people.

 

[RabidBadger]

Nothing like that is going to happen at all. Back in July the experts were predicting 2.5 million Americans alone would be dead this year from Covid, and the entire planet is not even close to that figure.

Oh god man. It already has happened: there are 250k dead in the U.S. That's more than the population of Grand Rapids. I wasn't saying the literal population of GR would die. IT WAS A COMPARISON OF DEATHS VS. A POPULATION OF A CITY.

That prediction of 2.5 mil deaths was based on a model of not taking mitigation steps, btw. Anyway, I'm walking away from this one since I try to limit my reparté with people who like to make sense.

 

[Oddbob]

Oh god man. It already has happened: there are 250k dead in the U.S. That's more than the population of Grand Rapids. I wasn't saying the literal population of GR would die. IT WAS A COMPARISON OF DEATHS VS. A POPULATION OF A CITY.

That prediction of 2.5 mil deaths was based on a model of not taking mitigation steps, btw. Anyway, I'm walking away from this one since I try to limit my reparté with people who like to make sense.

No steps taken wouldn't have led to 2.5 million deaths. What do you think, that those cheap masks most of us wear and staying just a little more space away from each other is some awesome defence against this global pandemic that could end civilization???

 

[lilidk]

Not hard to search for yourself, like at all.

Top 20 death causes in the World 2020 live — Deathmeters

Because covid people not going to see doctor for different problems. They simply afraid to get covid-19. Panic also kills

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Nothing like that is going to happen at all. Back in July the experts were predicting 2.5 million Americans alone would be dead this year from Covid, and the entire planet is not even close to that figure.

No they weren’t. That was if we literally did nothing to prevent the spread. If we operated our country like the ultra-easy mode in the game Plague, Inc.

Jesus Christ... they include big scary numbers as examples of “if we don’t take this seriously and just ignore it” and people take that to try to say they are doomsayers

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

No steps taken wouldn't have led to 2.5 million deaths. What do you think, that those cheap masks most of us wear and staying just a little more space away from each other is some awesome defence against this global pandemic that could end civilization???

no steps means that we still have 100,000 people at Michigan stadium, the Horseshoe, etc. That we have millions of people going to this convention or that.

Stop arguing in bad faith.

 

[RabidBadger]

Considering how fast it's still spreading, the number of infected/dead will be high. We still don't have the real numbers from China and a lot of places with high population densities, so those numbers will be very high by the time the dust settles. My question is what was considered a high mortality rate before the WHO removed the criteria from the definition of pandemic.

I don't know. Numbers be damned, I haven't seen another transmissable disease do what this crappy little virus has done.

Whatever your definition of high mortality rate is; be safe and debate another day. 1st drink is on me when this blows over and we can debate in person without becoming a statistic.

 

[The Zermanator]

Freedom of speech has given many people the false impression that they are able to speak with authority on anything they like.

I think if you're not a doctor or a public health expert, as I'm not, then you should shut the f*** up and listen to them when it comes to a pandemic and what to do about it.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Oh Lawd Hammercy. More fear mongering. They mention 2nd wave incoming...didn't we already have that (more like a 2nd splash)?

NHL fans don’t fool yourselves, the 2021 season is far from a certainty

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Oh Lawd Hammercy. More fear mongering. They mention 2nd wave incoming...didn't we already have that (more like a 2nd splash)?

NHL fans don’t fool yourselves, the 2021 season is far from a certainty

We are currently in the middle of it. Michigan literally yesterday had the most cases in a day they’ve ever had and this is a couple days into it being cold enough to actually entice people to stay inside.

That article isn’t fear mongering. It is a reminder that we haven’t beaten COVID yet.

The logistics of a bubble, which was wildly successful, and of playing a whole season around the league are very different.

Facing the reality we are in dangerous times is not fear mongering. If they said “there will not be a 2020-2021 season because of the virus killing us, that’s fear mongering.

 

[Bench]

That prediction of 2.5 mil deaths was based on a model of not taking mitigation steps, btw.

To believe you can cite the statistical models against the epidemiologists that created them, using them as a weapon...
but by doing so it demonstrates a complete failure to grasp the fundamental premise of that data.

When this happens in more benign conversation, it's easy enough to eyeroll and move on. But when it comes to something that is tearing through our communities and killing people every single day, I'm just f***ing over it. The arrogance and hubris is not just frustrating, it's dangerous.

And so much of it comes because our highest office has done everything imaginable to downplay and ignore the challenges we've been facing all year and will continue to face into 2021.

 

[Claypool]

Oh Lawd Hammercy. More fear mongering. They mention 2nd wave incoming...didn't we already have that (more like a 2nd splash)?

NHL fans don’t fool yourselves, the 2021 season is far from a certainty

Governors of certain states will ensure their "emergency powers" remain indefinitely. The biggest mistake the country made was giving power away to state and local officials and accepting it as normal. They're never giving it back until they are voted out.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

We are currently in the middle of it. Michigan literally yesterday had the most cases in a day they’ve ever had and this is a couple days into it being cold enough to actually entice people to stay inside.

That article isn’t fear mongering. It is a reminder that we haven’t beaten COVID yet.

The logistics of a bubble, which was wildly successful, and of playing a whole season around the league are very different.

Facing the reality we are in dangerous times is not fear mongering. If they said “there will not be a 2020-2021 season because of the virus killing us, that’s fear mongering.

Except, that last sentence you stated is practically what they're saying, just not in such "scary" terms, i,e. potential to kill us vs. killing us.

Level 4 Wuhan province Lab created Communist Chinese Party (not the citizens) released it as:

1. a means of population control (CCP kills 60+ MILLION in 20th century, mostly their own citizen too; Bill Gates Agenda 21 & 30, Bill Gates & his vaccines butcher 100K-1M+ kids in India & Africa). I just read yesterday of a 20K CCP forced labor camp in China (that's just the one listed, apparently there are many more). Wanna really blow your mind? Look at the World Slave Index, Slavery still exists, in 2020! While 1st world/Western "slaves" are debt slaves...Rothschilds & other families, IMF/World Bank/Central Banking/IRS etc.

2. global economic warfare (they're pissed about not getting the sweet trade deals anymore after prior administrations of both Democrats & Republicans (I'm not bias when it comes to facts) Clinton/Bush/Obama sold us out)

3. Deep State & Global Network of criminal enterprise (human trafficking, drug cartels) etc. trying to salvage/maintain control of the sheeple (tax dollars, submission) etc.

4. other Geopolitical implications & tertiary effects

5. In an election year (rolls eyes), CCP & deep state's hail mary, since the fake Russia Collusion didn't work/bogus impeachment. & countless other attempts to discredit, smear, attack, violate, burn-loot-murder, embezzle, counterfeit/money-launder etc. a duly elected US President & 65%+ of the nations people (his supporters). No investigation for Biden/Hunter's laptop despite the FBI having the evidence since Dec. '19 & his ex-business partner as a witness coming forward? (deep state swamp) ...now That is White Privilege!!

6. A bid to remove the USD as worlds reserve currency & devalue the petroldollar.

7. The engineers @ Toyota Motors don't want you to know that the materials used in a F*ing Prius battery (lol) does more damage to the environment than a Hummer/H2. & Now stay tuned for a word from our Global Climate Change "expert" 15 yr. HS 10th grader old Greta T.!

The fires in CA & the west coast this summer/fall killed millions of animals & left others brutally disfigured/injured, starving & homeless. (animal torture/murder is the worst crime) Guess who set up some of these fires? While others have the gaul to ask for federal aid, kinda like Minneapolis/Seattle mayors, allowing the destruction, even applauding it, then asking for bail-outs. Unbelievable. In karmic justice, several of the mayors homes were broken into & vandalized.

+Lots more, but that's enough for now.

P.S. not trying to hijack the thread/derail the conversation, but c19 is tied to all of it somehow directly and/or indirectly, just as we're all connected on this earth as a human race.