Coronavirus and General O/T Thread #2

[Bench]

3. You can't ban alcohol because then all the alcoholics would be in the hospital suffering from withdrawal. Did you not think of that? Perhaps that's why these things should be left to the professionals and the rest of us should just shut our big narcissistic mouths and heed their advice.

A point on this.

The main difference is that if I sit in my apartment and get loaded every night and destroy my liver, I'm only damaging myself. My alcoholism will not put others in danger, assuming I'm not driving or raising a child and such.

And that's the important note here. Our individual liberties stop when our bad choices start to impact others. That's why you can get drunk, but can't drive at the same time. You are now endangering others.

When you fail to follow simple rules to stop viral spread, for your own liberty, you're endangering those around you. I still talk to people over 85 that do their own shopping. If I'm not following safety measures, I'm probably fine, but I'm putting them in danger. And that's not ok. My freedom doesn't give me the right to shed virus and cripple their health or worse.

I don't do this shit just for me. It's for my friends and family. My neighbors.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Somebody could take a sledgehammer to my arm, and I might have 99.9% odds of surviving. It doesn't require death to make a situation serious. And there likely should be at least some reform to nutritional guidelines in this country, so good idea there.

You make it sound like nobody on the planet is allowed to leave their bedroom just because a handful of people have the sniffles. I feel bad for the businesses that are struggling or even going bankrupt - I agree that more thought and resources are needed to address that issue - but the basic tenets of this situation (mask up, social distance) are a very minor inconvenience.

Or do you have a detailed strategy for, "protecting the most vulnerable"? That's a conversation worth having, as opposed to just railing against what is.

Well, don't threaten me with a good time. I'll make sure you've got a 99.9% odds of surviving... just so long as I get to swing the sledge.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

A point on this.

The main difference is that if I sit in my apartment and get loaded every night and destroy my liver, I'm only damaging myself. My alcoholism will not put others in danger, assuming I'm not driving or raising a child and such.

And that's the important note here. Our individual liberties stop when our bad choices start to impact others. That's why you can get drunk, but can't drive at the same time. You are now endangering others.

When you fail to follow simple rules to stop viral spread, for your own liberty, you're endangering those around you. I still talk to people over 85 that do their own shopping. If I'm not following safety measures, I'm probably fine, but I'm putting them in danger. And that's not ok. My freedom doesn't give me the right to shed virus and cripple their health or worse.

I don't do this shit just for me. It's for my friends and family. My neighbors.

That's the problem. A staggering percentage of America... they do shit for #1 and nobody else. It's why they screwed up in the original mask messaging. "This will protect you, so do it" would have landed a lot differently than "This isn't going to help you, only everybody else".

 

[Bench]

That's the problem. A staggering percentage of America... they do shit for #1 and nobody else. It's why they screwed up in the original mask messaging. "This will protect you, so do it" would have landed a lot differently than "This isn't going to help you, only everybody else".

Disclaimer: Don't want to talk politics, or the individuals, just our national response to the virus.

Imagine how differently things could have gone if our leader started with "This is your patriotic duty! Wear your TRUMP MASK and defeat the CHINA VIRUS for good! America will LEAD and WIN!"

I don't even care if the dude wanted to sell them and make a huge profit. Whatever. Just get everyone on the same team. This was a huge opportunity for all of us to work together for once.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Disclaimer: Don't want to talk politics, or the individuals, just our national response to the virus.

Imagine how differently things could have gone if our leader started with "This is your patriotic duty! Wear your TRUMP MASK and defeat the CHINA VIRUS for good! America will LEAD and WIN!"

I don't even care if the dude wanted to sell them and make a huge profit. Whatever. Just get everyone on the same team. This was a huge opportunity for all of us to work together for once.

Yeah, it really is that simple. Look at literally every time we've needed to really pull together for something through history. Like the rationing for WW2, women hopping right to work, companies switching all gears to making planes and tanks instead of automobiles. The collective power of the American public is frightening if you can get us pulling the same way.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

A point on this.

The main difference is that if I sit in my apartment and get loaded every night and destroy my liver, I'm only damaging myself. My alcoholism will not put others in danger, assuming I'm not driving or raising a child and such.

And that's the important note here. Our individual liberties stop when our bad choices start to impact others. That's why you can get drunk, but can't drive at the same time. You are now endangering others.

When you fail to follow simple rules to stop viral spread, for your own liberty, you're endangering those around you. I still talk to people over 85 that do their own shopping. If I'm not following safety measures, I'm probably fine, but I'm putting them in danger. And that's not ok. My freedom doesn't give me the right to shed virus and cripple their health or worse.

I don't do this shit just for me. It's for my friends and family. My neighbors.

And honestly it might just be for you is what I always say. Who knows if you get a really awful case, that has happened too. The whole mask thing was pretty nutty, I live in a place that still ignores it, really ridicules you for it. I am the only person that wears a mask around work when I leave my desk. But I always say to co-workers, I am doing it for me and the people I see and for you and the people you see. Who knows if I might have already given this to you if I haven't been doing this.

You could have tapped into a lot of messages. This pandemic made me give up on the hope that we could become less divided as a country. Yes the messaging and actions were bad at times, but if we cannot come together better than this and we have done an extremely poor job our future looks pretty bleak, every empire has its fall, this has exposed a lot of what might ultimately be our undoing if we don't change a little as Americans in my opinion. Yes that is political, hard to avoid, but basically damning those staunchly entrenched on either side but yeah feel free to dislike the shit out of it gang...

Yeah, it really is that simple. Look at literally every time we've needed to really pull together for something through history. Like the rationing for WW2, women hopping right to work, companies switching all gears to making planes and tanks instead of automobiles. The collective power of the American public is frightening if you can get us pulling the same way.

Again that we didn't I think says a lot about where we are as a nation and people.

 

[Ricelund]

Disclaimer: Don't want to talk politics, or the individuals, just our national response to the virus.

Imagine how differently things could have gone if our leader started with "This is your patriotic duty! Wear your TRUMP MASK and defeat the CHINA VIRUS for good! America will LEAD and WIN!"

I don't even care if the dude wanted to sell them and make a huge profit. Whatever. Just get everyone on the same team. This was a huge opportunity for all of us to work together for once.

Oh god, yeah. He could've had 30% of the country in MAGA hazmat suits if the messaging were clear.

 

[jkutswings]

I'll make sure you've got a 99.9% odds of surviving... just so long as I get to swing the sledge.

Sister Sledge it is!

 

[Run the Jewels]

It'll be real interesting to see how many people get the vaccine once it is widely available and there is data that indicates it is effective. Will the anti-mask people be pro vaccine? I have my doubts.

 

[Claypool]

That's the problem. A staggering percentage of America... they do shit for #1 and nobody else. It's why they screwed up in the original mask messaging. "This will protect you, so do it" would have landed a lot differently than "This isn't going to help you, only everybody else".

The exalted Dr. Fauci recommended we don't need masks, remember?

Also...

 

[Winger98]

The exalted Dr. Fauci recommended we don't need masks, remember?

And then there was more research and his opinion changed, which is an ability we should want of anyone, especially someone tasked with giving important advice or decisions.

And we should take the flu more seriously, too. The yearly vaccines are cheap, if not free, for pretty much everyone and takes twenty minutes to stand in line at a pharmacy and get a shot.

 

[Claypool]

And then there was more research and his opinion changed.

What? No, he said he lied to not cause a mask shortage. The only other reason would be he doesn't actually believe anything he says. But remember, this is the nation's infectious disease expert. A man living off our tax dollars for nearly his entire life studying viruses. Someone The New York Times described as "one of the most trusted medical figures in the United States."

Good investment? Hell no. He needed to be fired a long time ago.

 

[Winger98]

What? No, he said he lied to not cause a mask shortage. The only other reason would be he doesn't actually believe anything he says. But remember, this is the nation's infectious disease expert. A man living off our tax dollars for nearly his entire life studying viruses. Someone The New York Times described as "one of the most trusted medical figures in the United States."

Good investment? Hell no. He needed to be fired a long time ago.

He's also talked about how they were unaware at of how asymptomatic people were spreading infection and how it helped raise the need for mask wearing, but whatever. Continue your rant about tax dollars, scientists, etc.

edit: and to be clear when taking the interviews together it is clear that Fauci's opinion on masks changed as information changed. The spread was different, the effectiveness of simple cloth masks was proven, the availability of masks was improved, etc. circumstances and information changed, and Fauci's opinion changed. The CDC's recommendations changed. The western world's opinion on whether or not to wear a mask changed with new information.

 

[Claypool]

He's also talked about how they were unaware at of how asymptomatic people were spreading infection and how it helped raise the need for mask wearing, but whatever. Continue your rant about tax dollars, scientists, etc.

Is there anything Fauci recommends that you won't follow? If he comes out tomorrow and says wearing goggles in public helps stop the infection rate, will you do it? Or is masks your personal limit?

 

[Winger98]

Is there anything Fauci recommends that you won't follow? If he comes out tomorrow and says wearing goggles in public helps stop the infection rate, will you do it? Or is masks your personal limit?

Maybe, but they'd have to be prescription.

 

[jkutswings]

Is there anything Fauci recommends that you won't follow? If he comes out tomorrow and says wearing goggles in public helps stop the infection rate, will you do it? Or is masks your personal limit?

Since you brought up the comparison with the flu:

Worldwide, influenza averages 3-5 million cases, with 290,000 to 650,000 deaths per year.

As of an hour ago, there are over 59 million cases of COVID-19 across the globe, with nearly 1.4 million deaths.

If Fauci is doing such a bad job and has such horrendous advice / decision making...who on Earth is handling things well?

 

[Claypool]

Since you brought up the comparison with the flu:

Worldwide, influenza averages 3-5 million cases, with 290,000 to 650,000 deaths per year.

As of an hour ago, there are over 59 million cases of COVID-19 across the globe, with nearly 1.4 million deaths.

If Fauci is doing such a bad job and has such horrendous advice / decision making...who on Earth is handling things well?

I didn't bring up the flu as a comparison, just pointing out that in the early days the media were all downplaying the supposed severity of COVID compared to the seasonal flu, and quoting so-called experts for their story, the experts we're supposed to trust. Couple that with the exalted one's claims we don't need to wear a mask, it shouldn't be a surprise that many aren't putting there trust in these institutions anymore, especially when their livelihood is at stake.

And for your questions about who is handling things well, I don't think anyone truly is. China is winning at the end of they day. Where do you think all our stimulus money is going to? I also don't believe you can create successful health policies to combat diseases that only work if 100 percent of the popular goes along with it. Our duly elected officials are putting these tough decisions into the hands of unelected bureaucrats. After the 30 days to slow the spread didn't work, the plan should have shifted to a hybrid system where we protect the most vulnerable while prioritizing schools and businesses staying open. But now we're locked down at least until a vaccine is distributed, though I think 2021 is going to be another lost year, too.

The media narrative has shifted from reporting on daily deaths to reporting on daily cases. That's the big scary number they can now push.

 

[Winger98]

I didn't bring up the flu as a comparison, just pointing out that in the early days the media were all downplaying the supposed severity of COVID compared to the seasonal flu, and quoting so-called experts for their story, the experts we're supposed to trust. Couple that with the exalted one's claims we don't need to wear a mask, it shouldn't be a surprise that many aren't putting there trust in these institutions anymore, especially when their livelihood is at stake.

And for your questions about who is handling things well, I don't think anyone truly is. China is winning at the end of they day. Where do you think all our stimulus money is going to? I also don't believe you can create successful health policies to combat diseases that only work if 100 percent of the popular goes along with it. Our duly elected officials are putting these tough decisions into the hands of unelected bureaucrats. After the 30 days to slow the spread didn't work, the plan should have shifted to a hybrid system where we protect the most vulnerable while prioritizing schools and businesses staying open. But now we're locked down at least until a vaccine is distributed, though I think 2021 is going to be another lost year, too.

The media narrative has shifted from reporting on daily deaths to reporting on daily cases. That's the big scary number they can now push.

you posted some jumbled up disaster of a collage making comparisons of the flu and corona. Yeah, you brought it up.

 

[Ricelund]

The media narrative has shifted from reporting on daily deaths to reporting on daily cases. That's the big scary number they can now push.

Totally! Nothing to see here!

 

[Winger98]

Totally! Nothing to see here!

whoa, you mean it might be getting reported on because it is...newsworthy? If there were thousands of people being hospitalized every day because of one disease and the news didn't report on it, that would be a bigger WTF moment than this.

 

[Ricelund]

What’s also funny is if you actually look back at what experts were saying in March, not just a copypasta of ~25 headlines designed to confirm the biases of “skeptics” and induce rage, the experts were pretty much right. They predicted an initial surge, a slowdown in the summer, a second surge in the fall/winter that’s worse than the first, and hopefully a vaccine in early/mid-2021. That’s what we’re on track for.

Remember back in the spring when the White House’s “cubic model” said we’d be approaching ZERO COVID deaths by MAY 15th?

Remember “packed churches on Easter”?

Remember hydroxychloroquine?

Remember “cases are only going up because we’re testing more”?

Remember when we were told the media would stop covering COVID as soon as the election was over?

Remember when we were told we were “rounding the corner” at the end of October?

There’s no conspiracy. The incompetence is staring you right in the face.

 

[Run the Jewels]

What? No, he said he lied to not cause a mask shortage. The only other reason would be he doesn't actually believe anything he says. But remember, this is the nation's infectious disease expert. A man living off our tax dollars for nearly his entire life studying viruses. Someone The New York Times described as "one of the most trusted medical figures in the United States."

Good investment? Hell no. He needed to be fired a long time ago.

Oh someone got fired this month, it sure as hell wasn't Fauci.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

What? No, he said he lied to not cause a mask shortage. The only other reason would be he doesn't actually believe anything he says. But remember, this is the nation's infectious disease expert. A man living off our tax dollars for nearly his entire life studying viruses. Someone The New York Times described as "one of the most trusted medical figures in the United States."

Good investment? Hell no. He needed to be fired a long time ago.

I don't follow this logic.

He said this thing that wasn't true... for a kind of logical reason if you consider American purchasing habits in the face of crisis (snowstorms, toilet paper, etc.) so now he doesn't believe a word he says? That isn't just a leap to a conclusion, this is strapping a rocket to your back and landing on Mars for that conclusion.

He IS one of the most trusted medical figures in the US. Many of the diseases he worked heavily on are ones that we massively have under control (HIV/AIDs, Swine Flu, Ebola, etc.) I also don't understand trying to denigrate his legacy. The NIH has done tremendous work in the decades he's been there. Like, imagine telling someone back in the early 1990s when Magic Johnson got HIV that Johnson would still be around and kicking in 2020 and that HIV can largely be treated by a 3 pill regiment to where it is untraceable in the system. If people for one second would just countenance the fact that infectious disease doctors might understand infectious diseases better than laypeople and a guy who made his bones ripping off people in the real estate game and reality TV... maybe you'd see that.

Like this is the problem. You are flat denying science to make the claims you do. That is dangerous as hell to ignore what is going on in front of your face to fit your ideological norms.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I didn't bring up the flu as a comparison, just pointing out that in the early days the media were all downplaying the supposed severity of COVID compared to the seasonal flu, and quoting so-called experts for their story, the experts we're supposed to trust. Couple that with the exalted one's claims we don't need to wear a mask, it shouldn't be a surprise that many aren't putting there trust in these institutions anymore, especially when their livelihood is at stake.

And for your questions about who is handling things well, I don't think anyone truly is. China is winning at the end of they day. Where do you think all our stimulus money is going to? I also don't believe you can create successful health policies to combat diseases that only work if 100 percent of the popular goes along with it. Our duly elected officials are putting these tough decisions into the hands of unelected bureaucrats. After the 30 days to slow the spread didn't work, the plan should have shifted to a hybrid system where we protect the most vulnerable while prioritizing schools and businesses staying open. But now we're locked down at least until a vaccine is distributed, though I think 2021 is going to be another lost year, too.

The media narrative has shifted from reporting on daily deaths to reporting on daily cases. That's the big scary number they can now push.

They've been talking about daily cases since March. The f*** are you on about? Remember June when Florida and Texas boomed? That was because they were getting 10k+ CASES per day. Also, they're still talking about deaths because we're now over 250k in America.

Who is handling it well? Finland + Norway. Australia. China. South Korea. Handling it well does not mean that they have no cases or no spread. It means that when the clusters pop up, do they turn into trigger points that explode into uncontrolled anarchy or can the system hold? Nordic countries not Sweden have done a fantastic job. Australia has done a really good job, although they're peaking up again a bit, SK has done great because they're basically ready to strap on a mask at a moment's notice. And China's done superb because even if they were cooking the books early on, it would have leaked from sources if they were still having completely uncontrolled spread.

 

[Winger98]

What’s also funny is if you actually look back at what experts were saying in March, not just a copypasta of ~25 headlines designed to confirm the biases of “skeptics” and induce rage, the experts were pretty much right. They predicted an initial surge, a slowdown in the summer, a second surge in the fall/winter that’s worse than the first, and hopefully a vaccine in early/mid-2021. That’s what we’re on track for.

Remember back in the spring when the White House’s “cubic model” said we’d be approaching ZERO COVID deaths by MAY 15th?

Remember “packed churches on Easter”?

Remember hydroxychloroquine?

Remember “cases are only going up because we’re testing more”?

Remember when we were told the media would stop covering COVID as soon as the election was over?

Remember when we were told we were “rounding the corner” at the end of October?

There’s no conspiracy. The incompetence is staring you right in the face.

It's really hard not to just veer hard into politics when discussing this, but the response of our federal government and their lack of presence in guiding the response of the states should be shocking to everyone. I've seen H1N1 brought up, and the government response to that was huge, and we didn't really notice it because it was done well. It still killed a bunch of people, it was still horrible for a lot of people, but it could have been a lot worse.