Player Discussion Connor McDavid Part V: Super Sophomore

[TheNumber4]

While we wait for Fitter's video. Let's enjoy this video

booooo. I thought they were going to unveil McDavid at the end.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

lol save your hot air lol i have heard people like you spout this stuff before and i laugh lol I appreciate all hockey skill but nobody saw the ice better than Gretzky ever. You are deluding yourself if you think if Gretzky in this day and age would not of benifited from training and weights and diet and equipment and the new rules and three on three lol You are full of hot air when you compare Gretzky to Johnny Gaudre in Calgary lol Of course hockey players are faster and bigger now lol it is called evolution of hockey but nobody had the mind for the game like Gretzky. You have no clue about me or what hockey i have seen , i appreciate all good hockey players. And i don't care what age you are . I know many people like you who will never admit Gretzky's impact on the game and calling him the greatest. They refuse to admit Grezky would of been great in any era with his mind and creativity for the game. And if he had the advantages of today then you are deluding yourself if you don't think with his mind he could adapt and be at the top of the league.

Your adding a ton of speculative information (diet, nutrition, rest, exercise, stimulants) all things that existed but weren't take advantage of by any players then but not only that your subtracting all the other elements that make the NHL more of an equal playing field such as higher quality of competition and advancements in system play, coaching, and scouting.

You'd have an end of the debate by just merely the fact that he had continuity to play on the same team for a number of years, and not have a salary cap.

Gretzky in today's NHL would make 12-14 mil/Messier 8-9, Kurri 8-9, Anderson 7-8, Fuhr 6.5-7 (see how an argument has no weight when you add speculation like you did with diet and all the other hoopla)

Frankly I would take hockey smarts, and no salary cap over a cap, and all diet + nutrition it's all overrated you either play the game or you can't. Players at the NHL have already made it (beyond reasonable doubt with all that exercise and fitness stuff because they wouldn't have made it there in the first place - that is an even playing field).

I don't hate Gretzky but it's like comparing Montana to Brady - Brady does so many things that don't get noticed. Just like Gretzky the only thing is most stole Gretzkys tricks. That's where I give Gretzky his due but now players know all the tricks and all the things he was surprising teams and other d-men with. When you seen him do things it was once in a lifetime and that's the love affair, but you try to do a spin-o-rama at the blue line and go around a d-man it doesn't work. How many times does a wrap around on a goalie work, or a shot from the top of the hash marks...very rarely. At least you have to see where he benefited.

 

[FanOfSadTeam]

Psshhh what does McDavid's mom know about McDavid. I'm going with Patrick O'Sullivan's opinion.

Also, if you plucked Gretzky from his time and placed him in today's NHL, he would be very average. Today's players have skills that are more fine tuned than his generation. Everything is better now. Every generation builds upon the last, and it's results are what we see now with McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Laine etc. They train harder now, have more knowledge about nutrition and health, have more resources to help them get better, and are more prepared from a young age of what to expect going into the NHL. Also, players are pushed to become better because of generational players like Gretz. The next generation wants to be a better version of them (which some will inevitably be), which leads to defenders and goalies needing to become better. Ex. goalies had to actually get their **** together and have a system once players like Gretz and Lemieux came around.

That being said, if Gretz was born in this generation, he would still be the Great one eventually. He had the work ethic, passion, and hockey IQ to be the best player. He'd have more resources available to him, better nutrition, better training, everything. He'd probably be more skilled than he was in comparison to his peers.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

Psshhh what does McDavid's mom know about McDavid. I'm going with Patrick O'Sullivan's opinion.

Also, if you plucked Gretzky from his time and placed him in today's NHL, he would be very average. Today's players have skills that are more fine tuned that his generation. Everything is better now. They train harder now, have more knowledge about nutrition and health, have more resources to help them get better, and are more prepared from a young age of what to expect going into the NHL. Also, players are pushed to become better because of generational players like Gretz. The next generation wants to be a better version of them (which some will inevitably be), which leads to defenders and goalies needing to become better. Ex. goalies had to actually get their **** together and have a system once players like Gretz and Lemieux came around.

That being said, if Gretz was born in this generation, he would still be the Great one eventually. He had the work ethic, passion, and hockey IQ to be the best player. He'd have more resources available to him, better nutrition, better training, everything. He'd probably be more skilled than he was in comparison to his peers.

No one ever even mentions scouting and using video. Somebody asked Jean Beliveau if they had video analysis and he said it wouldn't even be fair to the other team because they were so far ahead of there time. Even playing field with players and salary cap change the NHL forever. End of story.

 

[FanOfSadTeam]

No one ever even mentions scouting and using video. Somebody asked Jean Beliveau if they had video analysis and he said it wouldn't even be fair to the other team because they were so far ahead of there time. Even playing field with players and salary cap change the NHL forever. End of story.

Exactly what I meant by having better resources. You can literally sit down, study, and tailor your game based on an opposition player, or team, you'll be facing next game. Also, advances in physio, medicine, nutrition means these guys are getting individually tailored meals (like drinks based on their DNA.....and pizza for Pulju) and recovery treatment.

And excellent point with the salary cap. Can't make a Legends Team in today's NHL. You can get away with it for a season or two, but there would be no Oilers dynasty, that's for sure.

So people who think a team from the past could beat a team from today are just in denial and/or have selective memory.

 

[Bangers]

Gretzky today would still be the greatest player in the NHL. He averaged almost a point a game as a 40 year old at the height of the dead puck era.

And it really irks me when young folk talk about how Gretzky wasn't an elite athlete. He wasn't big, or speedy, or a tank on skates, but his fitness level was off the charts, even for a modern athlete. The guy could be double shifted and not be gassed; if VO2 Max were recorded back then, his would have likely been in the range of an Olympic athlete.

That being said, even he wouldn't get 200 points in the modern game, even with expansion set to pad players' scoring totals next year.

 

[Laineux]

You know a few decades from now there will be a superkid who makes everything that McDavid was able to do look clumsy in comparison. Progression is just natural and is built on what the previous generations achieved.

I don't think that diminishes what McDavid is doing right now. Nor does McDavid having more raw skill than Gretzky diminish what Gretzky did, as Gretzky was much better than anyone else given the same circumstances.

 

[Fourier]

Your a fan boy and a blowhard of Gretzky. I'm middle age and watched Gretzky he scored a lot of goals on subpar goaltending. He also had the benefit of having no one at his level yet. Now the players are more evenly spread (talent wise) also he was on a stacked team. Had Gretzky started his career when Mcdavid, or Crosby did with his size, speed he would comparable to a Gaudreau. He brought innovation and a new skill set but your deluding yourself us old guys loved the guys like we like an old mattress but give it a break if your outside Edmonton (not guys who have collected his memorobillia for 40 years) or a guy who can assess talent over long periods of time you realize as Barry Trots said the next best player has not even played yet because the players are always getting so good.

You do realise that the year Crosby came into the league that a 33 year old Jagr was second in the league with 123 points, a 35 year old Selanne had 90 points and Sakic at 36 had 89. Selanne also had 80 points in 73 games in 2010-2011 at age 40. Had he played the full 82 games like most of the players above him he would have been 5th or 6th in scoring. At 44 Jagr was still in the top 20 forwards for points last year.

I also wonder how you can say that Gretzky had no one on his level given that he played at the same time as Lemieux.

Finally, take a look at the Oilers in 80-81 and 81-82 when Gretzky had 164 and 212 points respectively. Explain to me how at the time he was on stacked teams.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

All the training, equipment and nutrition improvements are insignificant compared to the vast chasm modern defensive systems and goaltending improvements have made even since 80s/90s. The amount of stick work used in the defensive zone is actually pretty crazy.


The player skill gap between the mid level players and superstars has closed quite a bit as well. 4th lines are no longer just "energy lines" filled with plugs. They are almost what 3rd lines used to be.

Almost entirely different sports. Hopefully he can get even more than 100 pts.

 

[kevy999]

Your adding a ton of speculative information (diet, nutrition, rest, exercise, stimulants) all things that existed but weren't take advantage of by any players then but not only that your subtracting all the other elements that make the NHL more of an equal playing field such as higher quality of competition and advancements in system play, coaching, and scouting.

You'd have an end of the debate by just merely the fact that he had continuity to play on the same team for a number of years, and not have a salary cap.

Gretzky in today's NHL would make 12-14 mil/Messier 8-9, Kurri 8-9, Anderson 7-8, Fuhr 6.5-7 (see how an argument has no weight when you add speculation like you did with diet and all the other hoopla)

Frankly I would take hockey smarts, and no salary cap over a cap, and all diet + nutrition it's all overrated you either play the game or you can't. Players at the NHL have already made it (beyond reasonable doubt with all that exercise and fitness stuff because they wouldn't have made it there in the first place - that is an even playing field).

I don't hate Gretzky but it's like comparing Montana to Brady - Brady does so many things that don't get noticed. Just like Gretzky the only thing is most stole Gretzkys tricks. That's where I give Gretzky his due but now players know all the tricks and all the things he was surprising teams and other d-men with. When you seen him do things it was once in a lifetime and that's the love affair, but you try to do a spin-o-rama at the blue line and go around a d-man it doesn't work. How many times does a wrap around on a goalie work, or a shot from the top of the hash marks...very rarely. At least you have to see where he benefited.

You are the one doing all the speculating just because you are trying to diminish what Gretzky accomplished. You are missing the whole point. Gretzky was never the most talented, he had the greatest hockey IQ in history and hockey smarts that nobody has ever matched. So you can take make up anything you want about Gretzy and diminish what he did, you are in the vast minority. This is a useless argument because people like you never did like Gretzky and will find every excuse in the book to make their point why they think he wasn't the greatest. There is no use reasoning with you. I am going to enjoy the great talent of Connor Mcdavid while still knowing that there will never be another Gretzky. Enjoy your evening

 

[soothsayer]

Some of those old foggies you are talking about could probably kick you ass in hockey and in most physical activities lol But seriously now I could make tons of reasons why Gretzky would of dominated any era by lots. You have no clue what an accurate comparison is because i could also say the equipment and diet and training and rules nowadays is a huge advantage to todays players. I don't care what your eyes tell you. I watched Gretzky live and Mcdavid and nobody compare in the history of the game in how Gretzky saw the ice and made is teammates better. It would be very foolish to suggest any player in his first full year is even close to being on Gretzky's level yet. Nobody cominated his peers like Gretzky did and that is the only way you can compare.

Well I'm convinced.

 

[Dorian2]

Connor >>>>>Wayne.

 

[SegzKnightlySpoons]

Since he got at least a point tonight he has now officially managed to go the full season without going pointless for more than two consecutive games. That is ridiculous consistency.

 

[Del Preston]

Since he got at least a point tonight he has now officially managed to go the full season without going pointless for more than two consecutive games. That is ridiculous consistency.

That goes for his entire career, too. 125 games and he hasn't gone more than two without a point.

 

[McJadeddog]

That goes for his entire career, too. 125 games and he hasn't gone more than two without a point.

i was thinking the other day about what player would have the current longest active streak for this (not going 3 games without a point).... it would also be interesting to know the same stat for some of the all-time greats... my guess is that gretz might have gone a decade without doing this, lol

 

[FlameChampion]

Art Ross. Hart Trophy. Lester B. Stanley Cup. Conn Smythe.

Not a bad year for McDavid.

 

[MoneyGuy]

That goes for his entire career, too. 125 games and he hasn't gone more than two without a point.

Two in a row. There is a difference.

 

[nightfighter]

Exactly what I meant by having better resources. You can literally sit down, study, and tailor your game based on an opposition player, or team, you'll be facing next game. Also, advances in physio, medicine, nutrition means these guys are getting individually tailored meals (like drinks based on their DNA.....and pizza for Pulju) and recovery treatment.

Speaking of video analysis and game planning, how are you all feeling about mcdavid being able to fight through defensive systems in a 7 game slog fest series? I know he's been incredibly consistent and resilient all year (career) but it's different when you are seeing the same guys night after night and coaches can make adjustments right away. No doubt sharks are putting together a comprehensive game plan to stop mcdavid even as we speak. His last playoff series against the Oshawa generals in OHL will probably serve as an example as much for the oilers as it does the opposition. His line mates and secondary scorers are really going to have to step it up in the playoffs to give mcdavid some support.

 

[Del Preston]

Two in a row. There is a difference.

What?

The longest pointless streak of his 125-game career, not just this season, is two games.

 

[Prayfor97Preyfor97]

Hey guys!

Long time lurker here. This kid man, he brings it all! He brings us all out of our seats, he brought me to buy a jersey (1st one since my blue 90's Koho Smytty with the driller guy on it) and brought me to make an account.

He is amazing!

Gotta say I didnt like the non-call on the pick and elbow to the face he recieved!

Playoffs (sorry, off topic ) baby wooooooooooooo!

Lets do this!

 

[MoneyGuy]

What?

The longest pointless streak of his 125-game career, not just this season, is two games.

That's my point.

 

[Del Preston]

That's my point.

Your point isn't any different than what I initially posted. What's the difference you are talking about?

 

[MoneyGuy]

Your point isn't any different than what I initially posted. What's the difference you are talking about?

You said he hasn't gone more than two without a point. I said two in a row.

 

[Del Preston]

You said he hasn't gone more than two without a point. I said two in a row.

It's the exact same thing.

 

[stratedge]

Have people seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCh4azcbw5c

Never noticed that, is that a thing?