Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Sid walks into Montreal and stone cold stuns them all

[Gurglesons]

Just feels odd to have two top six wingers, but they really aren’t that, they are more like middle six wingers because they aren’t allowed on the top line.

I mean, Sid has chosen his linemates on the way to three cups and is the franchise.

Look at McCann tonight.

I agree completely that Guentzel - Crosby - Kessel is the most logical top line. Makes no sense other than the fact Sid doesn’t want to play with him.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Is this a Sid thing or a Sully thing? I'm having trouble reading between the lines. I can't imagine Sidney Crosby ever voicing to a coach that he doesn't want X or Y on his line.

It’s a Crosby thing.

I’m not sure where I stand on it though, just making an observation that we have two floundering top six wingers and who are extremely important to this team... but they aren’t allowed to play top line duties.

It’s an odd situation right?

 

[Coach Travis]

Phil Kessel - 5v5 Points:

• This Year: 37, currently 25th in the NHL (on pace for 46)
• 2017-18: 41
• 2016-17: 37
• 2015-16: 37
• 2014-15: 30
• 2013-14: 55

If our Powerplay is clicking along like it usually is, Kessel hits 90 points again this season. That kind of production for $6.8M cap hit is absurd. Oh and btw, despite our Powerplay struggles, Kessel leads the team in powerplay points while putting up his most productive 5v5 year as a Penguin.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I mean, Sid has chosen his linemates on the way to three cups and is the franchise.

Look at McCann tonight.

I agree completely that Guentzel - Crosby - Kessel is the most logical top line. Makes no sense other than the fact Sid doesn’t want to play with him.

Can ya blame him? Heh.

Bjugs-Phil when Bjugs first got here showed some stuff. I'd go back to it.
And like i said, Geno just wants to go go go atm so give him responsible wingers at the very least so he can maybe get out of his own end and play in the OZ more.
For me, thats Bluegs-Horny since i want McCann to stay on L1.

 

[LOGiK]

I mean, Sid has chosen his linemates on the way to three cups and is the franchise.

Look at McCann tonight.

I agree completely that Guentzel - Crosby - Kessel is the most logical top line. Makes no sense other than the fact Sid doesn’t want to play with him.

So many posters were furious at McCann on the top line. Those that were semi furious wanted Jake switched with Mcy. This board at times.....

 

[JackFr]

I agree that if we ever trade Kessel we would need to have a real impact player ready to step in for him. Kessel truly sucks at everything except scoring and playmaking, but we need that gamebreaking talent when it comes down to it. Those projected lineups without him are pretty grim.

We are getting 8 million dollars of production out of him at a discount. That's a big deal, and shouldn't be shrugged off.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It’s a Crosby thing.

I’m not sure where I stand on it though, just make an observation that we have two floundering top six wingers and who are extremely important to this team... but they aren’t allowed to play top line duties.

I guess there's always a possibility, but I am extremely skeptical that Sidney Crosby meddles around in coaching decisions to that degree.

If Sid made it clear he wasn't a fan of playing with, say, Hornqvist--why would we go through the trouble of re-signing Hornqvist for a handful of years and put a bunch of money toward him?

I don't know. I think it's far more realistic that Sully just sees what he sees, and makes changes. Maybe I'm giving Sid the benefit of the doubt too much, but I really don't think he's going to the coach and asking for certain wingers or saying he doesn't want to play with others. Nothing about the guy's personality or career really lends any credence to that for me.

 

[LOGiK]

Can ya blame him? Heh.

Bjugs-Phil when Bjugs first got here showed some stuff. I'd go back to it.
And like i said, Geno just wants to go go go atm so give him responsible wingers at the very least so he can maybe get out of his own end and play in the OZ more.
For me, thats Bluegs-Horny since i want McCann to stay on L1.

Geno is best in go go go mode though. Sucks for his wingers, but that is the job requirements for genos wingers.

 

[#1GuinFan]

Phil Kessel - 5v5 Points:

• This Year: 37, currently 25th in the NHL (on pace for 46)
• 2017-18: 41
• 2016-17: 37
• 2015-16: 37
• 2014-15: 30
• 2013-14: 55

If our Powerplay is clicking along like it usually is, Kessel hits 90 points again this season. That kind of production for $6.8M cap hit is absurd. Oh and btw, despite our Powerplay struggles, Kessel leads the team in powerplay points while putting up his most productive 5v5 year as a Penguin.

How does this year match-up when it comes to +-?? I haven't looked, but I'm going to assume its the worst, by far.

 

[Gurglesons]

I agree that if we ever trade Kessel we would need to have a real impact player ready to step in for him. Kessel truly sucks at everything except scoring and playmaking, but we need that gamebreaking talent when it comes down to it. Those projected lineups without him are pretty grim.

We are getting 8 million dollars of production out of him at a discount. That's a big deal, and shouldn't be shrugged off.

We have it in Jake.

We didn’t have Jake in 15-16. We did in 16-17. We did in 17-18 and it is clearly Jake has been a head above Kessel those two playoffs.

You can afford to move Kessel if it gets us a top tier prospect, a LW or RW for Malkin, or a top four D that allows us to rid ourselves of Maatta or JJ.

Kessel for two years has shown he can’t carry a third line, and he can’t or won’t be allowed to fit in our top six.

Issue is Rutherford would probably do something like trade him for Dustin Brown and a 2nd.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I guess there's always a possibility, but I am extremely skeptical that Sidney Crosby meddles around in coaching decisions to that degree.

If Sid made it clear he wasn't a fan of playing with, say, Hornqvist--why would we go through the trouble of re-signing Hornqvist for a handful of years and put a bunch of money toward him?

I don't know. I think it's far more realistic that Sully just sees what he sees, and makes changes. Maybe I'm giving Sid the benefit of the doubt too much, but I really don't think he's going to the coach and asking for certain wingers or saying he doesn't want to play with others. Nothing about the guy's personality or career really lends any credence to that for me.

It was an open secret for awhile, but the beat guys have finally come clean about it in the last year or so.

Kessel and Hornqvist certainly know as well.

Just kind of a weird ass situation like I keep saying. It hamstrings the lineup to a degree, but it’s like telling Lemieux what’s best for him... seems silly I guess.

 

[TheGuiminator]

It was a blast to see Crosby carrying the team on his back like only Sidney can do

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Do I think Sid's got preferences as to how he wants his wingers to play? Absolutely. He's at his best when his wingers are fast, both in terms of footspeed as well as their ability to think the game. He sets guys up for quick-strike shots often, so I'd imagine he wants his wingers to be able to one-time pucks as well. He probably prefers his guys to be able to play in all three zones to a competent degree.

But to assume the guy is in Sully's ear about not wanting to play with Hornqvist or Kessel is, I don't even know how to put it, it's just weird to me.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I noticed when I get a notification for a liked post or I'm tagged, it takes me to some random spot for the thread. Is Tim Peel our site host manager?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It was an open secret for awhile, but the beat guys have finally come clean about it in the last year or so.

Kessel and Hornqvist certainly know as well.

Just kind of a weird ass situation like I keep saying. It hamstrings the lineup to a degree, but it’s like telling Lemieux what’s best for him... seems silly I guess.

Huh... Weird. I'm honestly really surprised by this.

I always thought it was weird that Jake-Sid-Horny wasn't a permanent, chiseled in stone combo. I just can't bring myself to believe Sid's choosing his linemates, especially considering how well he works with Horny.

 

[Turin]

I mean, Sid has chosen his linemates on the way to three cups and is the franchise.

Look at McCann tonight.

I agree completely that Guentzel - Crosby - Kessel is the most logical top line. Makes no sense other than the fact Sid doesn’t want to play with him.

I don’t agree. That line would get scored on a lot. Guentzel is only good defensively in spurts and Kessel at this point is like the worst defensive forward not named Sprong. If anybody misses Hagelin it’s probably him.

 

[LOGiK]

It was an open secret for awhile, but the beat guys have finally come clean about it in the last year or so.

Kessel and Hornqvist certainly know as well.

Just kind of a weird ass situation like I keep saying. It hamstrings the lineup to a degree, but it’s like telling Lemieux what’s best for him... seems silly I guess.

Sid can captain coach and gm for all I care. Guy earned it and is a god amongst men in this league.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Do I think Sid's got preferences as to how he wants his wingers to play? Absolutely. He's at his best when his wingers are fast, both in terms of footspeed as well as their ability to think the game. He sets guys up for quick-strike shots often, so I'd imagine he wants his wingers to be able to one-time pucks as well. He probably prefers his guys to be able to play in all three zones to a competent degree.

But to assume the guy is in Sully's ear about not wanting to play with Hornqvist or Kessel is, I don't even know how to put it, it's just weird to me.

I doubt he kicks his door down and slaps his personal choices on the desk and eyeballs him... but he apparently has his preferences and Kessel and Hornqvist aren’t it.

Kessel got booted after a couple games when they played well...

Then notice how Hornqvist once again got booted after a couple games?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don’t agree. That line would get scored on a lot. Guentzel is only good defensively in spurts and Kessel at this point is like the worst defensive forward not named Sprong. If anybody misses Hagelin it’s probably him.

That's my big concern as well. Phil's dreadful defensively, and even if Sid and Jake are fine in that regard, Phil just forces them to do less work offensively and more work defensively because of his shortcomings without the puck.

With the puck in the offensive zone, I'm sure Jake-Sid-Phil would thrive, but it's everything else that concerns me; neutral zone, entries, defensive zone play, puck battles, etc.

 

[Turin]

I wish he liked playing with Hornqvist more but he hates dumping the puck in and Hornqvist’s only offensively utility at ES when not screening is retrieving dump ins. It’s easy to understand why he’d dislike it, though I think it’s less of a big deal now than it was when Guentzel wasn’t around.

 

[EightyOne]

Maatta will be back this month.

14-15: -34
About double what this year is so far.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I doubt he kicks his door down and slaps his personal choices on the desk and eyeballs him... but he apparently has his preferences and Kessel and Hornqvist aren’t it.

Kessel got booted after a couple games when they played well...

Then notice how Hornqvist once again got booted after a couple games?

It's absolutely a curious situation, but I'm not sure I'm sold on Sid being the catalyst for these changes. I just can't bring myself to see Sid doing anything like that. Again, I'm sure Sid's more frustrated with certain wingers as opposed to others, and I'm sure Sully always has a keen eye on Sid and Geno, reading them and adjusting as he sees fit. I'd guess that was more along the line of what's happening.

 

[Coach Travis]

How does this year match-up when it comes to +-?? I haven't looked, but I'm going to assume its the worst, by far.

No one serious looks at +/- anymore.

 

[LOGiK]

14-15: -34
About double what this year is so far.

Can I say I dont want OM back? Is that safe to say around here or wut?

 

[mpp9]

I doubt he kicks his door down and slaps his personal choices on the desk and eyeballs him... but he apparently has his preferences and Kessel and Hornqvist aren’t it.

Kessel got booted after a couple games when they played well...

Then notice how Hornqvist once again got booted after a couple games?

Sullivan was asked about it tonight. He said he wanted to get more speed on Crosby's line against a fast Habs team.

I just think Sid likes a combination of players who can skate and get him the puck. I imagine every time PH dumps the puck in, Sid mutters an expletive to himself.