Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Canes - Sid delivers 3 Christmas Presents

[PensandCaps]

The problem is that you wouldn't be selling high because of the contract he has. You'd basically be giving him away for nothing. I think you can get a decent return for Maatta and I don't want to gamble on this Maatta being the new normal for him.



This is a horrible take. Like this is just a bad, bad opinion to have.

How so? Why would you want to pay a bad Dman 3.25 mil.

 

[Al Smith]

Great effort from L1 and MM. Easy to get excited over goaltending over last few games. Not easy to get excited over continuing lack of depth scoring. Hate to say D is better with Rig under the circumstances, but it's undeniable. That being said, getting puck out of own end is still too much of an adventure.

Worst thing in the world for the team could be the four+ days off. Hope they don't lose their current mojo over the break.

 

[froods]

Having Geno play like Geno would be huge, for sure. If Simon helps him do that, great. And if not, he works with Sid, too. I know you've pimped him for a while, and with good reason. I'm just glad he's made the most of the opportunities he's been given.

His skating is not going to get better. He has to be perfect mentally or it is trouble. Bad spot to be in on a team like this.

 

[Ryder71]

Maatta's had +2 , five hits , six block shots (leading the team on H and Bsh) tonite and people still find the way to discredit him. That's ridiculous.

He was definitely much better tonight than last game no question.

 

[EightyOne]

I think third pairing deployment for Johnson is just a better fit.

The term and contract length suck.

But if he keeps this recent play up, fine. He's no longer one of the reddest of flags on the team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How so? Why would you want to pay a bad Dman 3.25 mil.

The problem is that you think you can take any player and get what you can get out of Johnson. Want to know why guys like Jared Tinordi aren't in the NHL? Because they couldn't do what Johnson has done. Johnson hasn't accumulated 850 games in his career by being replaceable by anyone off the street.

Want to know why GMs give guys like Orpik, Engelland and Alzner big long term deals? Because physical shot blockers who can play top-4 minutes are crazy rare nowadays. Sure, they'll give you garbage possession stats, but you don't acquire them based on their possession stats.

 

[Tom Hanks]

This team for being as bad as we’ve been so far this year seems to be meshing.

Rust and Murray seem to be turning the corner.

You get Malkin and Brassard firing and this turns into a scary roster that’s potentially getting hot at the right time.

Seems like pretty much everyone has played really good hockey at some stage this season. Just the majority hasn’t all been together.

 

[froods]

I think third pairing deployment for Johnson is just a better fit.

The term and contract length suck.

But if he keeps this recent play up, fine. He's no longer one of the reddest of flags on the team.

I think the contract length is ok, but I hear you about the term.

 

[EightyOne]

The problem is that you think you can take any player and get what you can get out of Johnson. Want to know why guys like Jared Tinordi aren't in the NHL? Because they couldn't do what Johnson has done. Johnson hasn't accumulated 850 games in his career by being replaceable by anyone off the street.

There's a lot worse warm bodies on other teams. 3.2mil isn't even much for any skill level dman who isn't on an ELC. Sadly the league just loves to pay dmen.

 

[ColePens]

This is a Pens post-game thread. I don't care who is dressing up as the Hartford Whalers tomorrow night. Take that discussion to the Around the NHL thread.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's a lot worse warm bodies on other teams. 3.2mil isn't even much for any skill level dman who isn't on an ELC. Sadly the league just loves to pay dmen.

I think a factor is that Johnson type of defensemen aren't common anymore. When I say "Johnson type of defensemen", I mean very physical shot blocking defenseman who can handle top-4 minutes and skate at a NHL level. Those guys aren't all that common anymore, it's why you constantly see guys like Orpik, Alzner, Engelland, Coburn, Staal, Gudbranson and Girardi getting contracts that make advanced stat junkies go crazy.

Are those guys outdated fossils of an old NHL or are they unique pieces that are worth acquiring? It seems like there is always at least 1 GM in the NHL that thinks they're unique pieces every time those guys become available. Most fans think they're outdated fossils, I'd bet that most GMs think it is worthwhile to have 1 guy like that on defense.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The problem is that you wouldn't be selling high because of the contract he has. You'd basically be giving him away for nothing. I think you can get a decent return for Maatta and I don't want to gamble on this Maatta being the new normal for him.

I’m pretty sure you can get a top four return for Maatta as long as he keeps playing steady hockey.

Again, it’s not the return I’m concerned with, (I suspect he is more well thought of by real live GMs than he is here), it’s if this org can ever convince themselves to let him go.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m pretty sure you can get a top four return for Maatta as long as he keeps playing steady hockey.

Again, it’s not the return I’m concerned with, (I suspect he is more well thought of by real live GMs than he is here), it’s if this org can ever convince themselves to let him go.

That's a qualifier that makes me uneasy

I think you'd mostly get a good return for Maatta based on his reputation. I can't imagine many scouts would come away happy with what they've seen from him this year. But on the same point, GMs aren't going to ignore the rest of his career if they're thinking about acquiring him and Maatta hasn't even been that bad this year.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Having Geno play like Geno would be huge, for sure. If Simon helps him do that, great. And if not, he works with Sid, too. I know you've pimped him for a while, and with good reason. I'm just glad he's made the most of the opportunities he's been given.

Ya, Simon will be Simon, no matter where they put him. I’m just hoping he can get Malkin going because no one else can, including Kessel.

Simon is kind of the last hope at this point barring a trade.

 

[Son Goku]

Sidney the master

 

[froods]

Ya, Simon will be Simon, no matter where they put him. I’m just hoping he can get Malkin going because no one else can, including Kessel.

Simon is kind of the last hope at this point barring a trade.

I think they need to look at other things. Remember when they sent Sid home early for Christmas break? He flipped a switch and we won two cups. Send Geno to mother Russia for 2 weeks.

 

[vodeni]

Ya, Simon will be Simon, no matter where they put him. I’m just hoping he can get Malkin going because no one else can, including Kessel.

Simon is kind of the last hope at this point barring a trade.

neh, Geno is coming strong after the break...

 

[EightyOne]

Sidney the master

Sid has broken the game for me. Is there even a point following hockey after he retires?

Ovi can score goals. Mcdavid can skate fast. Countless other "next ones" have come and gone and none of em do what he does.

Crosby on an 80s Oilers or 90s Pens team...well...we'll never know. Likewise, a 66 or 99 stuck on a 00s Pens team? But I think we know....

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's a qualifier that makes me uneasy

I think you'd mostly get a good return for Maatta based on his reputation. I can't imagine many scouts would come away happy with what they've seen from him this year. But on the same point, GMs aren't going to ignore the rest of his career if they're thinking about acquiring him and Maatta hasn't even been that bad this year.

He’s been a part of two cup teams, he plays top four minutes, he’s still quite young, and he will get good value back. Teams are always desperate for top four D, and that’s the catch 22 why he may not get moved.

After hearing how much this org loves him, I’ll be pretty shocked if he’s moved. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but it’s one of those moves that I would see on my phone and be like “damn, JR actually did it...”

 

[Empoleon8771]

He’s been a part of two cup teams, he plays top four minutes, he’s still quite young, and he will get good value back. Teams are always desperate for top four D, and that’s the catch 22 why he may not get moved.

After hearing how much this org loves him, I’ll be pretty shocked if he’s moved. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but it’s one of those moves that I would see on my phone and be like “damn, JR actually did it...”

I just have trouble understanding how the Penguins can love Maatta that much, to the point where you think they wouldn't trade him, but are linked to a ton of defensemen via trade right now. Something already has to give on defense, and you're hearing rumors that the Penguins are asking about guys like Muzzin, Martinez and Montour. I just don't get how both of those are the case, I don't see how they can want to acquire those kind of defensemen while not wanting to move Maatta. You can also ask why the Penguins keep getting linked to these players if they're happy with Maatta.

 

[Old Gregg]

+ Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, Penguins Fan!

 

[Son Goku]

Sid has broken the game for me. Is there even a point following hockey after he retires?

Ovi can score goals. Mcdavid can skate fast. Countless other "next ones" have come and gone and none of em do what he does.

Crosby on an 80s Oilers or 90s Pens team...well...we'll never know. Likewise, a 66 or 99 stuck on a 00s Pens team? But I think we know....

Pretty much how I feel. What is hockey without Sidney Crosby? The two are synonymous. You can't think of hockey and not think Sidney Crosby.

 

[Beau Knows]

Crosby on an 80s Oilers or 90s Pens team...well...we'll never know. Likewise, a 66 or 99 stuck on a 00s Pens team? But I think we know....

He's one of those players who would have been just as good in almost any era. In the deadpuck era he'd score the dirty goals that it took to win there, in the high-scoring 80's his skating and vision would result in some 150+ point seasons.

 

[Beau Knows]

I think they need to look at other things. Remember when they sent Sid home early for Christmas break? He flipped a switch and we won two cups. Send Geno to mother Russia for 2 weeks.

Where are his parents located these days? Maybe some borscht is in order.

 

[EightyOne]

Where are his parents located these days? Maybe some borscht is in order.

He needs a care package of kvass, onions, and garlic.