Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens duck another loss!

[Gurglesons]

I just don't get the clenching of fists and stomping of feet when a suggestion like Tanev getting a shot with Sid is brought up. Simon's not a guy who is really good at anything, and doesn't really bring much to the line. He's the Bjugs of wingers, and people seem pretty pissed at Bjugs' lack of--well, anything. Tanev's not gonna light the world on fire offensively, but I think his speed and tenacious forecheck could do wonders for Sid/Jake. That's all. No need to get all uppity about it.

Well, I think it is because of the whole Simon doesn’t t do anything when he was literally involved from start to finish on the GWG tonight.

 

[canadianguy77]

Zar was supposed to be at worst a bona fide 3rd liner. Sundqvist was supposed to be a nobody.

Ask Sundy if he would trade places with ZAR now.

 

[Gurglesons]

I know we won tonight and we are all trying trying to stay extremely positive but....

It absolutely amazes me how this team can put themselves in beautiful scoring spots/positions and how often our forwards and ESPECIALLY defenseman (outside of Schultz occasionally) can completely miss the net by like feet.

Outside of a couple forwards, it’s like some of these guys have no clue where their shots are going.

I absolutely love what McCann is doing so far but he has been the most glaring the past two games. He gets himself into high danger areas and then his shot is just absolutely no where close. And there are many others.

Yeah, if only one of our D set up our first goal tonight via a shot.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think Simon's sort of an example where "analytics" can mislead a bit about a player's overall effectiveness. At some point, having a positive Corsi/Fenwick doesn't do much if you can't bury those chances.

For example, someone going 6 CF and 4 CA will look better analytically than someone going 4 CF and 6 CA in a game. But if the first player can't score to save his life while the second player can score more frequently, the second guy actually helps you win more.

Long story short: I'm sick if Simon having the shot of a bantam player.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think Simon's sort of an example where "analytics" can mislead a bit about a player's overall effectiveness. At some point, having a positive Corsi/Fenwick doesn't do much if you can't bury those chances.

For example, someone going 6 CF and 4 CA will look better analytically than someone going 4 CF and 6 CA in a game. But if the first player can't score to save his life while the second player can score more frequently, the second guy actually helps you win more.

Long story short: I'm sick if Simon having the shot of a bantam player.

I’d say Simon is a perfect example of where the eye test fails. He’s got a weak shot, isn’t a fantastic skater and isn’t physical.

So, his positive attributes of positional play, picks, puck movement and takeaways are completely lost on those who love a player like Tanev or Rust.

I think we all want Simon to show on the score sheet more and when healthy he shouldn’t be in the top six.

 

[Turin]

The Letang -> Crosby across the body deflection will never not be nasty.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Yeah, if only one of our D set up our first goal tonight via a shot.

That was a pass. And if that was a “shot” as you’re implying, Letang would have missed the net completely. Not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic. I’m hoping that latter. Either way it was a poor attempt.

 

[Gurglesons]

That was a pass. And if that was a “shot” as you’re implying, Letang would have missed the net completely. Not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic. I’m hoping that latter. Either way it was a poor attempt.

Ah. The old Letang can’t get shots on net even though @Jesse has proven he is in the top percentile in the league for getting shots through to the net for defensemen.

 

[Turin]

I didn’t catch the game tonight, only the highlights so far. Glad to know Kahun was noticeable.

 

[HuskerTornado]

When healthy our bottom six could potentially be very fun.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Ah. The old Letang can’t get shots on net even though @Jesse has proven he is in the top percentile in the league for getting shots through to the net for defensemen.

What exactly are you arguing here? You first stated that his pass to Crosby was a shot on net, when it wasn’t. And now you have jumped to a new argument.

He hasn’t done well at putting the puck on net the first 4 games of the season. And that’s what I was talking about in my initial post.

 

[Gurglesons]

What exactly are you arguing here? You first stated that his pass to Crosby was a shot on net, when it wasn’t. And now you have jumped to a new argument.

He hasn’t done well at putting the puck on net the first 4 games of the season. And that’s what I was talking about in my initial post.

Aside from putting it on net the same amount of times as Schultz who you commended and you know. Actually scoring a goal.

And it was a shot pass to Sid. And Letang does it better than most players in the league.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Zar was supposed to be at worst a bona fide 3rd liner. Sundqvist was supposed to be a nobody.

Ask Sundy if he would trade places with ZAR now.

Idk tho....could be Sully and his system and Sunny would be doing little here while ZAR would be putting up 20+ goals with Blues.

We have no clue anymore.....we went from getting production out of everyone we called up with Sully at first to.....not so much. ZAR/Simon didnt have the Rust/Sheary and Guentzel impact. We've been trading players at a rapid pace...but nobody is really making that difference. Maybe Galchenyuk would be...hurt. And Malkin/Rust out isn't helping our other guys have better linemates.


So id just stay put (no hags for Pearson type trade ....which btw Pearson is scoring more for Canucks....another example of Sullys system not working anymore?) And let things play out. Give it a few weeks at least. Maybe one of Lafferty/Johnson step up. Maybe anyone else does lol. Other than relying on Sid.

 

[Turin]

Why does Simon get hate despite figuring into yet another goal?

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I think Simon's sort of an example where "analytics" can mislead a bit about a player's overall effectiveness. At some point, having a positive Corsi/Fenwick doesn't do much if you can't bury those chances.

For example, someone going 6 CF and 4 CA will look better analytically than someone going 4 CF and 6 CA in a game. But if the first player can't score to save his life while the second player can score more frequently, the second guy actually helps you win more.

Long story short: I'm sick if Simon having the shot of a bantam player.

Just makes me more impatient for players like Bjorkvist, Bellerive, Almeida, Hallander, Legare, Poulin. Our best odds at finding guys who can not only provide what Simon does but actually score too. Out of that group of 6 players...we desperately need at least 2 to become diff makers on level of Guentzel/Galchenyuk. I know some can be legit 4th liners like Bjorkvist/Bellerive....but we "need" more than that.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Why does Simon get hate despite figuring into yet another goal?

Dont hate him...just waiting for someone better..ha

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Why does Simon get hate despite figuring into yet another goal?

Why is it considered "hate" to want to see what Tanev can bring? He seems like exactly the kind of guy that would be a huge boon to Sid/Jake.

And again, that goal was like 99.9% Sid. Simon made a nondescript chip out of the zone that Sid scooped up and proceeded to dismantle the Ducks' team before tossing it back to Jake for a tap-in. Simon went to the net, so there's that too, I guess.

 

[Turin]

Why is it considered "hate" to want to see what Tanev can bring? He seems like exactly the kind of guy that would be a huge boon to Sid/Jake.

And again, that goal was like 99.9% Sid. Simon made a nondescript chip out of the zone that Sid scooped up and proceeded to dismantle the Ducks' team before tossing it back to Jake for a tap-in. Simon went to the net, so there's that too, I guess.

The first post is “Kahun is what Simon should be” as Simon once against factors into another goal for Crosby and Guentzel lol. It’s just goofy. As for Tanev, maybe, but his finishing ability isn’t exactly amazing either. I’m fine with Tanev just creating havoc on the lower lines for now.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

4th because AJ got hurt on his first shift and didn’t play a single one after and Agozinno played basically one shift.

The coaching staff has clearly been underwhelmed with ZAR, but he is one of our top nine forwards right now.

Not true. He played 4 shifts, the last of which the Ducks scored. Agz had 5 shifts and had the same final shift.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The first post is “Kahun is what Simon should be” as Simon once against factors into another goal for Crosby and Guentzel lol. It’s just goofy. As for Tanev, maybe, but his finishing ability isn’t exactly amazing either. I’m fine with Tanev just creating havoc on the lower lines for now.

Eh, we're a one line team until Geno and Gally get back anyway. Live and die by Sid/Jake, and put them in the best position to be able to do their thing. I like Tanev's speed and tenacity over Simon's vanilla, bland (but safe) style, which--to be fair, won't hurt you. I just don't think it benefits his linemates either, and certainly not nearly as much as Tanev and his skillset may for Sid/Jake. People rag on Bjugs for being bland, vanilla and not really bringing anything to the table that makes his linemates better or makes their lives easier. I think the same exact thing is true for Simon. Neither guy hurts you, per se, but I think there are better options. Tanev may be one, he may not be--I'd like to see. Especially since we just handed him a 6-year deal.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Why does Simon get hate despite figuring into yet another goal?

And Why does Letang get hate despite being a good 1D?

 

[froods]

I’d say Simon is a perfect example of where the eye test fails. He’s got a weak shot, isn’t a fantastic skater and isn’t physical.

So, his positive attributes of positional play, picks, puck movement and takeaways are completely lost on those who love a player like Tanev or Rust.

I think we all want Simon to show on the score sheet more and when healthy he shouldn’t be in the top six.

I think this post is reflective of fans that love to watch hockey vs people that understand the elements that drive success.

I agree, Simon is vanilla and doesn’t show up much on the score sheet, but he drives possession and 87 and 59 show up more on the scoresheet when he is playing next to him. Further more, we get on the powerplay more when he is playing on the top line and the following rushes see more time in the offensive zone.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like the flaw with how people evaluate Simon here is that they either look too heavily at analytics or the eye test to evaluate him. Neither one will paint a correct picture, one paints Simon as a top-6 forward and the other paints him as a should be extra forward. The truth is somewhere in the middle, I personally consider Simon a fine 3rd line playmaker but nothing more. He'd be great on a 3rd line with McCann and Hornqvist, which should be their goal once the inevitable cap crunch hits next year.

 

[PensandCaps]

Overpaid salary and term?

But, to be serious. Straight line speed and disruption is not what Jake and Sid need and not what they ever have need. It’s why Rust isn’t successful there.

They need a player like Simon that plays that way. They need that creativity. Honestly, I wonder if we can get Palms because he’s the perfect mix for them.

they don't need Simon either. he stinks. love him on line 4 but anything above and Simon looks like shit.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I don’t think the eye test fails for Simon. He’s quick, smart, has the hands to play in small areas, and is a lot better on the walls than many give him credit.

Not a perfect player but you could never show me the analytics and I’d think he’s good at hockey.