Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 2 Pens vs. Sabres

[IcedCapp]

Well, yes, but what reason could there have been for that?

Well I'm just thinking: if you move Sutter and let Dupuis walk, you could have acquired Bolland. I think he'd be a better 3rd-line center moving forward, and he has some top-6 ability in case of injuries.

It would require Bennett playing in the top-6 all year, but you'd actually still have money left over to add some more grit to the bottom-6 if you wanted.

And then there's not re-signing Adams and moving Glass. I mean, really, I think there's a lot they could have done to really improve this team top-to-bottom. Wonder why we haven't discussed this before.

(Yes, Bolland only has one year left on his contract. I dun care.)

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kaleta is still garbage and Ott had his stone hands on display the one time he was noticeable near the puck. I hope those two rot away on a crappy team for a couple more years.

So what you're saying is you hope they never leave Buffalo.

 

[Nietzsche Zone Play]

So what you're saying is you hope they never leave Buffalo.

exactly!

 

[KIRK]

Well I'm just thinking: if you move Sutter and let Dupuis walk, you could have acquired Bolland. I think he'd be a better 3rd-line center moving forward, and he has some top-6 ability in case of injuries.

It would require Bennett playing in the top-6 all year, but you'd actually still have money left over to add some more grit to the bottom-6 if you wanted.

And then there's not re-signing Adams and moving Glass. I mean, really, I think there's a lot they could have done to really improve this team top-to-bottom. Wonder why we haven't discussed this before.

(Yes, Bolland only has one year left on his contract. I dun care.)

No need. I stand corrected. Perhaps you, like me, missed Nietzsche Zone Play's well defined and historically defended argument about how Sutter is a cup caliber third line center and KCD is the best line in hockey against anyone and at any time (of course, one would think that the best line in hockey shouldn't be so easily stoned by a five man unit of Bergeron-Marchand-Jagr-Ference-Boychuk, but I digress . . . ).

 

[mpp9]

Great argument against my point on Sutter there. no use even trying to engage in someone like you.

Sutter sucks, KCD blows in the playoffs, Bennet is the answer, Jokinen and Niskanen are expendable. Every single one of your hundreds of daily posts sheds such illuminating light on one or more of these truths. keep it up!

Sutter is soft as baby poop at this point. He's gotta step it up. Read your advanced stats all you want.

 

[KIRK]

So what you're saying is you hope they never leave Buffalo.

A team like this has no need for a guy like Ott for a cup run, not with a Sutter in the lineup front and center.

 

[IcedCapp]

No need. I stand corrected. Perhaps you, like me, missed Nietzsche Zone Play's well defined and historically defended argument about how Sutter is a cup caliber third line center and KCD is the best line in hockey against anyone and at any time (of course, one would think that the best line in hockey shouldn't be so easily stoned by a five man unit of Bergeron-Marchand-Jagr-Ference-Boychuk, but I digress . . . ).

And Niskaken is a top-4 Dman and Despres is shaky. I got the memo.

 

[JTG]

Is there any way to watch a replay of the game? I looked on Root and NHL Network and there's nada.

 

[doob]

Well, it sure as **** isn't Bylsma's doing.

I think you want to see how it holds at Philly. At home against the Isles. And, then later against the highest octane offensive teams. That's going to be the true test. In a way, though, it's good that they're getting this chance to build the good habits early against lesser opponents.

Yeah, I agree...Still weird not to be disappointed against against a lesser team. I've been guilty of thinking they should beat a weaker teams in the past. I'm just, I don't know really how to react after watching the first 2 games.
All giddy though.

 

[KIRK]

Sutter is soft as baby poop at this point. He's gotta step it up. Read your advanced stats all you want.

Baby poop isn't that brittle. And, it's the advanced stats that win cups. I mean, didn't you see Niskanen's corsi rating these first two games?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Seriously. Who fills in at center if Crosby and/or Malkin get injured, which isn't exactly a far fetched scenario? Joe Vitale? Brandon Sutter? Come on now.

I said if anything. It's arguable, but here, these lines without Sutter.
X = Vitale, Adams, Sill, Zolnierczyk, other call up, but realistically a new player would be added after Sutter was gone.
X is not Glass.
X does not denote the same player being in the lineup twice, whoever was going to make that joke.

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal
Kobasew - Jeffrey - Dupuis
X/Glass - Adams - Vitale
X


Malkin gets injured, Jokinen moves to centre and Dupuis to wing.
Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Dupuis - Jokinen - Neal
Kobasew - Jeffrey - X

Crosby gets injured, Jokinen moves to 1st centre, Kunitz goes to Malkin and Dupuis goes to Jokinen. Or just Jeffrey for Crosby which may not be a huge loss from Sutter for Crosby, IDK.
Dupuis - Jokinen - Bennett
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Kobasew - Jeffrey - X

OR
Kunitz - Jeffrey - Bennett
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal
Kobasew - X - Dupuis

Both get injured, we're ****ed anyway.
Kunitz - Jeffrey/Jokinen - Bennett
Dupuis - Jeffrey/Jokinen - Neal
Kobasew - X - X

As crazy as it sounds, Sutter is playing like he wants it to end up that way. One or two good plays a game, but if he didn't have that last name and if he wasn't part of the return in the Staal trade, I really do wonder if we wouldn't be mentioning him right after Glass.

Sutter really didn't impress me in the playoffs and he's been like that ever since. He's just kind of flat and lacking, and physically weak. I'm not expecting Staal, but Sutter isn't doing enough.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Seconded. I mean, Jesus Christ, our top six didn't even make it to the season healthy.

I think Sutter might be the expendable player right now if anything.

KCD needs to die a swift death and Dupuis might be the one to do it, eventually even Bylsma's thick skull may be penetrated. Adams has more goals than Dupuis and equal points, FFS.

I like Jokinen and I like Jeffrey, I am now wondering if the team should keep Sutter, last year I kept a close eye on how he plays and it wasn't really all that impressive, but all I could think about was "Shero traded Jordan Staal for this kid and a stud prospect as well as a pick, let's give him a shot."

I think the fact that we got 2 solid prospects out of it is still a win, but Sutter is making me wonder if the team is going to hang on to him because he was moved for Staal or because they think he can turn into a solid player.

I'd move Sutter for a top 6 winger in a heart beat, if a team was desperate enough to want him for that kind of price, a team with a brutally weak bottom 6 perhaps? I think Jeffrey can do as good of a job and learn to be better at the defensive side of the game as well as contribute offensively with increased minutes and a regular spot for once.

I think I would be choked to see Jeffrey get traded over Sutter and I would definitely hope Shero got burned if that happened, by seeing Jeffrey absolutely thrive elsewhere with the role he should have been given with the Pens.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He could make Despres expendable in managements eyes.

I don't pretend to know what they are thinking anymore.

I thought Morrow was untouchable until one day in late March when I was sitting outside a DQ about to smash my iPhone off a wall.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

As much as I'd like to see Bennett on a scoring line, I think it's even more essential that he get on the #1 PP with Neal out.

He just opens up so many opportunities out there with his skillset when playing from the blueline in.

 

[KIRK]

And Niskaken is a top-4 Dman and Despres is shaky. I got the memo.

I know you got the memo. I tattooed it to your latte cup. The question is whether you UNDERSTAND the memo.

 

[mpp9]

1. What do you do with Jokinen then? Centering Gladams?

2. FYI, in the trade thread, I'm on record saying if you get a Palmieri, put him and Bennett with Sid and let them grow during the regular season and then reap the rewards in the playoffs. Put Kunitz with Geno and Neal. Put Duper with Sutter and Chucky. Jeffrey and JJ on line four. That's the type of line that could chip in, especially when you double shift Sid or Geno. The only reason I'm adamant about Bennett with Geno is it's a given that Bylsma is too dumb to see the merit in playing him with Sid, and wasting him until Dupuis or Kunitz retires isn't the answer.

We'd all like to see more skill with Sid, but I'm convinced KCD is here to stay unless a major trade comes along.

I think Jeffrey has the ability to be a better LW for Sutter than Jokinen. Just as Beau can be a better option for Geno's LW. Neal's injury allows us to test that possibility.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Baby poop isn't that brittle. And, it's the advanced stats that win cups. I mean, didn't you see Niskanen's corsi rating these first two games?

Niskanen, for all the flack he gets here, is actually solid consistently enough to know that people here just need a whipping boy and have seemed to pick him for that reason alone. I've seen worse out of the guys people here seem to have a hard on for.

Sutter on the other hand, he makes a few solid plays here and there to make you go "Man he could be good once he puts it together" then you realize how long he's been in the league you say "Oh..." to yourself. I mean Bortuzzo looked like he needed to bulk up, so he did, same with Beau...Sutter, he's still a beanpole that doesn't look like he can battle along the boards and win, often.

 

[KIRK]

As much as I'd like to see Bennett on a scoring line, I think it's even more essential that he get on the #1 PP with Neal out.

He just opens up so many opportunities out there with his skillset when playing from the blueline in.

No, for the same reason you can't play Bennett with Malkin unless you've got no choice, you can't play him on the #1 PP. His play might make it impossible not to keep him there.

 

[66-30-33]

I like what Martins done to this D, it will only get better when we get Letang back in like a month. Hope we can play this way against teams who are good, then into the playoffs.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We'd all like to see more skill with Sid, but I'm convinced KCD is here to stay unless a major trade comes along.

FYI, "unless" does not mean "regardless of whether".

 

[MrBurghundy]

As much as I'd like to see Bennett on a scoring line, I think it's even more essential that he get on the #1 PP with Neal out.

He just opens up so many opportunities out there with his skillset when playing from the blueline in.

Realistically they should break up the top PP into two separate entities. They finally have the personnel to do it with too.

Having Crosby and Malkin both out there seems to just muddy the waters too much. Too many chiefs and too few indians.

 

[KIRK]

I said if anything. It's arguable, but here, these lines without Sutter.
X = Vitale, Adams, Sill, Zolnierczyk, other call up, but realistically a new player would be added after Sutter was gone.
X is not Glass.
X does not denote the same player being in the lineup twice, whoever was going to make that joke.

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal
Kobasew - Jeffrey - Dupuis
X/Glass - Adams - Vitale
X


Malkin gets injured, Jokinen moves to centre and Dupuis to wing.
Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Dupuis - Jokinen - Neal
Kobasew - Jeffrey - X

Crosby gets injured, Jokinen moves to 1st centre, Kunitz goes to Malkin and Dupuis goes to Jokinen. Or just Jeffrey for Crosby which may not be a huge loss from Sutter for Crosby, IDK.
Dupuis - Jokinen - Bennett
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Kobasew - Jeffrey - X

OR
Kunitz - Jeffrey - Bennett
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal
Kobasew - X - Dupuis

Both get injured, we're ****ed anyway.
Kunitz - Jeffrey/Jokinen - Bennett
Dupuis - Jeffrey/Jokinen - Neal
Kobasew - X - X




Sutter really didn't impress me in the playoffs and he's been like that ever since. He's just kind of flat and lacking, and physically weak. I'm not expecting Staal, but Sutter isn't doing enough.

What's sad is I remember the Pens playing against Sutter. His entire job was to cover Geno. He absolutely blanketed him. Mugged, hooked, held, bit . . . did whatever you'd expect a Sutter to do to get the job done. THAT is the Sutter who I thought the Pens were getting. It's not the one they got.

 

[JTG]

That Vanek goal was ridiculous. I want that guy here so bad.

 

[Nietzsche Zone Play]

2012-13 Corsi relative to the quality of competition

6 centers faced tougher competition than Sutter last season. none of them were even close to starting as much in the defensive zone, and look at his offensive zone finish %. if you look down a little you'll see Bolland with lesser numbers there as well. an added bonus with Sutter is that he doesn't take penalties and draws a good number. it's nice to know your best defensive forward will usually be available to kill penalties.

is he perfect? no. but he just turned 24, is cheap, and will probably stay cheap since his offensive numbers are avg at best (given his role). he's also very calm, which is a nice balance for the 3 stars on the team.

 

[KIRK]

I like Jokinen and I like Jeffrey, I am now wondering if the team should keep Sutter, last year I kept a close eye on how he plays and it wasn't really all that impressive, but all I could think about was "Shero traded Jordan Staal for this kid and a stud prospect as well as a pick, let's give him a shot."

I think the fact that we got 2 solid prospects out of it is still a win, but Sutter is making me wonder if the team is going to hang on to him because he was moved for Staal or because they think he can turn into a solid player.

I'd move Sutter for a top 6 winger in a heart beat, if a team was desperate enough to want him for that kind of price, a team with a brutally weak bottom 6 perhaps? I think Jeffrey can do as good of a job and learn to be better at the defensive side of the game as well as contribute offensively with increased minutes and a regular spot for once.

I think I would be choked to see Jeffrey get traded over Sutter and I would definitely hope Shero got burned if that happened, by seeing Jeffrey absolutely thrive elsewhere with the role he should have been given with the Pens.

1. Sutter's trade value (given how other teams will value him) may be greater than his value to the Pens (with JJ and Jeffrey).

2. Sutter is a RFA after this season. Anyone think he's worth the 3+ million a year he's going to want?