Prospect Info: Cole Caufield (Part 10)

[SOLR]

Honest question - what do you think would be different today with both players had they played X amount of games in the AHL?

Don't think the AHL is the argument. KK should still be in Finland and Chucky should have played in the OHL after the injured season.

 

[DAChampion]

Honest question - what do you think would be different today with both players had they played X amount of games in the AHL?

Kotkaniemi would be tracking to be a 70-point, 2-way center and he'd still have that smile on his face.

Galchenyuk would have become a 60-point winger ... Though there's more uncertainty there due to injuries.

 

[417]

Don't think the AHL is the argument. KK should still be in Finland and Chucky should have played in the OHL after the injured season.

Let's forget Galchenyuk for a second...he's long gone.

But Kotkaniemi, so let's say he stays 1 more year in Finland after being drafted, comes to North America the following season (which would have been last year) and plays the entire year in the AHL.

This would be his rookie season.

Other than our perception, which would be altered since we'd be looking at a 20yr old rookie instead of 3rd year 20yr old.

What would be different? Would he play more minutes? Would he be more physically mature? Would the coaching staff trust him more?

 

[Seb]

Honestly, I just don’t see the hype. Cole has NO one in the Pipeline or on the team that he can play with.. Petry is on his way out and unless Suzuki can hit another gear or KK can learn to skate we once again are losing out on a top 10 pick because of covid 19.

He already scored 3 goals in 7 games, not sure what can get you hyped if this can't.

 

[417]

Kotkaniemi would be tracking to be a 70-point, 2-way center and he'd still have that smile on his face.

Sarcasm?

Cause it's hard being a 2 way 70pt center when your coach doesn't trust you to play more than 13-14 mins a game.

 

[SOLR]

Let's forget Galchenyuk for a second...he's long gone.

But Kotkaniemi, so let's say he stays 1 more year in Finland after being drafted, comes to North America the following season (which would have been last year) and plays the entire year in the AHL.

This would be his rookie season.

Other than our perception, which would be altered since we'd be looking at a 20yr old rookie instead of 3rd year 20yr old.

What would be different? Would he play more minutes? Would he be more physically mature? Would the coaching staff trust him more?

He would have had the chance to play big minutes for 2 more years. Look at what happened with Pool party. He would be facing rookie challenges with more physical maturity, more confidence and more time.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Don't think the AHL is the argument. KK should still be in Finland and Chucky should have played in the OHL after the injured season.

Agreed. We rushed them to fill holes. It's clear as day

 

[morhilane]

Look at all the metrics, this team has been substantially worse with Ducharme than it was with Julien, especially at 5 on 5. I'm not arguing the players are a major part of the problem here, but the constant line juggling, the lack of aggressiveness on the forecheck, the way the team plays D, that's all gotten way worse with Ducharme. I'm not a Claude fan, I usually don't give a shit about who coaches honestly, I didn't even care that much about Therrien, but what Ducharme does right now is so blatantly bad in my eyes, I want him gone, I'm done, I don't believe he has what it takes, I'm sorry. Plus, let's not forget he was here the last few years, it's not like this guy just was given a job in a totally new environment.

Ducharme is making strange coaching decisions (he always have logical reasons behind them, he's learning on the job really), but the team not being ready when starting a game, going on long losing stretches and unable to come back when trailing has been a thing before Ducharme joined the coaching staff.

And it won't go away when he leaves.

 

[417]

He would have had the chance to play big minutes for 2 more years. Look at what happened with Pool party. He would be facing rookie challenges with more physical maturity, more confidence and more time.

At inferior levels - which as we all know, is far from a guarantee to be repeated in the NHL.

Especially when the conditions (playing big minutes) aren't replicated at the NHL level.

You can't expect a flower to grow if it gets no water and no sun.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He already scored 3 goals in 7 games, not sure what can get you hyped if this can't.

Poehling scored 3 with a shootout winner in his 1st game. That's why some are still pessimistic. However, Caufield is a good one. Limited 5/5 but he knows the challenge he has and I liked what I saw last night. The little bugger needs to skate, skate, skate and create is own time and space. If he can do that, I'm a believer cause he's got the skill to be a play maker and his shot is elite.

4/4, 3/3, PP is where we will get the most value. If he produces 5/5... BONUS! We might have a fringe star on our hands if we can find him the right physical center to draw the attention physically away from him.

 

[Gravity]

The brain-dead easy shit is to put him with Kotkaniemi and put someone you trust defensively on their opposite wing, like Lehkonen.

Then you put Caufield on BOTH PP units and put him on the Ovechkin spot on both.

I can't believe professional coaches don't know enough about their players to optimize their usage.

If common sense were common everybody would have it.........

 

[SOLR]

At inferior levels - which as we all know, is far from a guarantee to be repeated in the NHL.

Especially when the conditions (playing big minutes) aren't replicated at the NHL level.

You can't expect a flower to grow if it gets no water and no sun.

Yet Ken Holland, with exactly the philosophy of not bringing in players before they are 20-21 (unless they are called McDavid), has been the top development GM in the world.

There is something to be said about not being ready for a challenge and the psychological effects it has on a person.

KK and Chucky were not generational prospects. They were both development prospects, we played them both at 18. Chucky didn't play much before his draft. KK was on a severe upswing before his. They both had nearly Force Majeure arguments to keep them in their leagues patiently.

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

People are saying that? Yeah a 5’7 kid is going to the net unlike the rest of the team. You know, like Joel Armia who is 6’4 and more than happy to just cycle the puck instead of battle for goals.

Most of the team is weak. They lose puck battles consistently, the chop at pucks like a lumberjack instead of trying to control and read the play. The dump every damn puck in every damn situation..

here you have it!

this team is LOST.

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

He already scored 3 goals in 7 games, not sure what can get you hyped if this can't.

Putting kulak at center..

Or maybe having tried mete at wing..

Or maybe putting subban with Galchenyuk before he went down to injury,

more maybe playing all your rookies together on the power play..

or maybe not playing Staal ATALL he’s horrible

 

[DAChampion]

Sarcasm?

Cause it's hard being a 2 way 70pt center when your coach doesn't trust you to play more than 13-14 mins a game.

Obvious the coach would trust him more if he were a better player, see Suzuki.

 

[417]

Yet Ken Holland, with exactly the philosophy of not bringing in players before they are 20-21 (unless they are called McDavid), has been the top development GM in the world.

There is something to be said about not being ready for a challenge and the psychological effects it has on a person.

Ken Holland? Top development GM in the world?

That's interesting, a bit outdated but agree to disagree with that title.

Either way. I don't personally think Jesperi Kotkaniemi would be a different player today, certainly not a 2 way 70pt center had he played a couple of years in Finland/AHL.

As I mentioned, it's impossible to be a 2 way 70pt player plaing 13-14 mins a game.

 

[417]

Obvious the coach would trust him more if he were a better player, see Suzuki.

yet Suzuki didn't play a single minute in the AHL.

 

[SOLR]

Ken Holland? Top development GM in the world?

That's interesting, a bit outdated but agree to disagree with that title.

Either way. I don't personally think Jesperi Kotkaniemi would be a different player today, certainly not a 2 way 70pt center had he played a couple of years in Finland/AHL.

As I mentioned, it's impossible to be a 2 way 70pt player plaing 13-14 mins a game.

Who is it then? Who else has the pedigree? No one is even close.

I wasn't the one claiming KK would be a 70pt player at 21.

My main argument is that if you start the 7 years at 21 years old, you get more physical prime years for him to become that around 25-26.

 

[1909]

Agreed. We rushed them to fill holes. It's clear as day

KK was the wrong pick. + They rushed him badly. I will never blame the kid. The management and scouting did a shit job with him.

 

[417]

Who is it then? Who else has the pedigree? No one is even close.

Perhaps you'd like to tell me about the great prospects that have developped under Ken Holland in Edmonton and his last 10yr or so as GM of the Wings?

Off the top of my head

Larkin
Mantha
Bertuzzi

Edmonton...I don't think a single prospect drafted since Ken Holland has been GM there has even played a game

 

[Seb]

Poehling scored 3 with a shootout winner in his 1st game. That's why some are still pessimistic. However, Caufield is a good one. Limited 5/5 but he knows the challenge he has and I liked what I saw last night. The little bugger needs to skate, skate, skate and create is own time and space. If he can do that, I'm a believer cause he's got the skill to be a play maker and his shot is elite.

4/4, 3/3, PP is where we will get the most value. If he produces 5/5... BONUS! We might have a fringe star on our hands if we can find him the right physical center to draw the attention physically away from him.

I really hate the Caufield and Poehling comparison. No rational people ever expected Poehling to become a goal scorer. The fact he had 4 goals in his first game never changed that.

It's fair to temper the hype but it's normal to be excited with Caufield's potential when he is already showing he can score in the NHL.

 

[SOLR]

Perhaps you'd like to tell me about the great prospects that have developped under Ken Holland in Edmonton and his last 10yr or so as GM of the Wings?

Off the top of my head

Larkin
Mantha
Bertuzzi

Edmonton...I don't think a single prospect drafted since Ken Holland has been GM there has even played a game

"Drafted since Ken Holland" you mean in 2019, such a ridiculous argument. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Tatar is one, Bouchard, Mcleod, Pool Party was crafty decision-making. There are many more. The end of the wings was always coming, when you trade all your picks for 3-4 years in a row, you don't get enough talent. Let's see how he handles Raphael Lavoie/Broberg, bigger development curves.

Again, who else is competing? If you say Yzerman (probably the best in the last 10 years), my point is proven because Yzerman applies the same rules as Holland. But Holland has been up there still and you can't ignore the first 10 years of wings cups run with a consistent flow of developed secondary players. Holland overpays and he's not the best at pro scouting, but he consistently beats the average at development.

 

[japhi]

Let's forget Galchenyuk for a second...he's long gone.

But Kotkaniemi, so let's say he stays 1 more year in Finland after being drafted, comes to North America the following season (which would have been last year) and plays the entire year in the AHL.

This would be his rookie season.

Other than our perception, which would be altered since we'd be looking at a 20yr old rookie instead of 3rd year 20yr old.

What would be different? Would he play more minutes? Would he be more physically mature? Would the coaching staff trust him more?

Nothing would be different. The idea that if he had only played in an inferior league, with inferior players / inferior facilities / inferior trainers, he would be farther ahead is ridiculous. As if 2 more years in Finland magically transforms him into a high performing 20yo in the NHL.

Pure fantasy.

Bottom line is he is going through an incredibly tough stretch. It happens, to ALL players. Prior to this stretch, he looked right on track. Was great in the playins, and great to start the year. Which indicates he dev was / is on track.

Suzuki just came out of a similar stretch and last 7 games looks like a world beater. Common sense says KK will emerge in similar fashion.

 

[417]

Tatar is one, Bouchard, Mcleod, Pool Party was crafty decision-making. There are many more. The end of the wings was always coming, when you trade all your picks for 3-4 years in a row, you don't get enough talent. Let's see how he handles Raphael Lavoie/Broberg, bigger development curves.

Tatar was drafted in 2009 and is probably the last of the "Ken Holland development success stories" that supplied the Wings with so much talent in the late 90s and early 2000s...but the NHL is different today,

Young players are expected to contribute sooner. You're not going to see high draft picks spend 3yrs in the AHL like Tomas Tatar did.

As far as Bouchard, Jesse P...they weren't drafted by Holland

Again, who else is competing? If you say Yzerman (probably the best in the last 10 years), my point is proven because Yzerman applies the same rules as Holland. But Holland has been up there still and you can't ignore the first 10 years of wings cups run with a consistent flow of developed secondary players. Holland overpays and he's not the best at pro scouting, but he consistently beats the average at development.

Again...I think the reputation you're giving Holland stems from the late 90s and early-to-mid 2000s.

I don't think it applies today. I think you need to look at the Detroit Red Wings drafting between 2010 to 2018. It's really not all that impressive.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Development. Is. Not. Linear.