You recall him making one “good” play with the puck. That’s what its become with ceci.
“He played bad “
“Weeeeeelllll there was that one play that wasn’t terrible sooooooooo”
You assume the kids wouldn't be better
I disagree
I think a lot of our kids would be better then Ceci after 400 games
And for them to reach 400 games they need to start sometime
Were rebuilding
Get them the experience while we are rebuilding
Not like Ceci is doing a good job anyway
I see this as this: you can cherry pick some stats to make ceci look half decent. JUST LIKE others can cherry pick stats to make ceci look absolutely atrocious. At the end of the day. There’s probably nothing that makes him look good/great. So then there’s the eye test. Which is almost always bad.But who? Ceci is a RHD...
RHD is probably the scarcest position in the NHL
We just traded Erik Karlsson, one of the best RHD in the league, so a major hole was created. Sure we got back DeMelo in return but ideally is on your 3rd pair.
This is our RHD depth right now without Ceci :
Dylan DeMelo
Chris Wideman
Christian Jaros
Julius Bergman
Erik Burgdoerfer
And Harpur who can play his off-side
You realize that Ceci has had the 13th most ES TOI/GP in the last 2 years? And the 11th most SH TOI/GP? And since it's usually not the same D-men getting those 2 types of TOI, Ceci has actually had on of the most ES + SH TOI/GP (22:29 /GP)
In comparison (ES + SH TOI/GP) :
Ryan Suter 23:56
Drew Doughty 23:46
Erik Karlsson 23:17
Rasmus Ristolainen 23:03
Dustin Byfuglien 22:49
Alex Pietrangelo 22:46
Zdeno Chara 22:42
Cody Ceci 22:29
Kris Letang 22:05
Victor Hedman 21:58
Duncan Keith 21:50
Seth Jones 21:49
And since Ceci is mostly deployed as a shutdown D-man in the defensive zone against the likes of Tavares and Kane, do you find it normal that he has such a deployment? Do you really think any of Harpur, DeMelo, Jaros or Wideman would do better in such a role?
Look at Rasmus Ristolainen possession numbers
Corsi (EV) Fenwick (EV) PDO (EV) Zone Starts (EV)
Season Age Team Lg GP TOI CF CA CF% CF% rel FF FA FF% FF% rel oiGF oiSH% oiGA oiSV% PDO oZS% dZS%
2013-14 19 BUF NHL 34 547.3 404 584 40.9 -3.7 301 444 40.4 -4.9 13 5.4 26 91.6 97.0 46.6 53.4
2014-15 20 BUF NHL 78 1339.8 942 1583 37.3 -0.6 731 1167 38.5 -0.6 30 5.4 59 93.0 98.4 39.3 60.7
2015-16 21 BUF NHL 82 1594.2 1336 1604 45.4 -3.5 991 1211 45.0 -4.1 54 7.3 74 91.2 98.6 43.7 56.3
2016-17 22 BUF NHL 79 1602.8 1387 1757 44.1 -5.2 1065 1350 44.1 -5.3 61 7.8 70 92.8 100.6 45.1 54.9
2017-18 23 BUF NHL 73 1459.7 1389 1472 48.5 1.1 1077 1132 48.8 1.5 60 7.7 83 89.9 97.6 53.0 47.0
2018-19 24 BUF NHL 5 91.0 83 104 44.4 -5.2 66 76 46.5 -1.6 3 6.3 4 92.9 99.1 45.1 54.9
Career NHL 351 6634.8 5541 7104 43.8 -2.0 4231 5380 44.0 -2.1 221 7.0 316 91.8 98.8 45.7 54.3
Do you see the correlation between dZS% and CF%? Of course, players get "hemmed" in their zone in that context...
And despite that context, the GA/60 and xGA/60 of Ceci has not been as bad as his haters make it seem. Let's compare with Karlsson
2016-17 + 2017-18
Cody Ceci
GA/60 : 2.92
xGA/60 : 2.61
2016-17 oZS% vs dZS% : 45.7% vs 54.3%
2017-18 oZS% vs dZS% : 41.2% vs 58.8%
Erik Karlsson
GA/60 : 2.84
xGA/60 : 2.45
2016-17 oZS% vs dZS% : 52.9% vs 47.1%
2017-18 oZS% vs dZS% : 55.1% vs 44.9%
If Cody Ceci is as terrible defensively as the HF Sens narrative tell you, what does those numbers say about Karlsson?
I see this as this: you can cherry pick some stats to make ceci look half decent. JUST LIKE others can cherry pick stats to make ceci look absolutely atrocious. At the end of the day. There’s probably nothing that makes him look good/great. So then there’s the eye test. Which is almost always bad.
So. Should we have traded him for a star Young forward. Should we sign him long term now? What are your answers given the numbers you’ve provided.
“Hes not as bad as some people believe! He’s slightly better given these numbers” is no victory given the bigger questions here.
an interesting thing to think about...what if we had a true "shut down" guy on the right side? Karlsson wasn't that and having him play it would have taken away from his real talent.
if we had such a player and as a result Ceci played less regularly against top lines and was starting in the o zone more frequently, what would he look like?
I see this as this: you can cherry pick some stats to make ceci look half decent. JUST LIKE others can cherry pick stats to make ceci look absolutely atrocious. At the end of the day. There’s probably nothing that makes him look good/great. So then there’s the eye test. Which is almost always bad.
So. Should we have traded him for a star Young forward. Should we sign him long term now? What are your answers given the numbers you’ve provided.
“Hes not as bad as some people believe! He’s slightly better given these numbers” is no victory given the bigger questions here.
Bad and without anymore excuses
Some people have a really hard time seeing the nuances between excuses and reasons.
an interesting thing to think about...what if we had a true "shut down" guy on the right side? Karlsson wasn't that and having him play it would have taken away from his real talent.
if we had such a player and as a result Ceci played less regularly against top lines and was starting in the o zone more frequently, what would he look like?
look one post up from yoursHe'd look like a guy with zero offensive instincts and very, very little in the way of offensive production.
He would still make all the defensive brain farts he does now..... remember, he’s not starting ALL his shifts in the defensive zone. He starting most of them there. 55% is not 100% obviously. It’s not like ceci is an offensive catalyst 45% of the timean interesting thing to think about...what if we had a true "shut down" guy on the right side? Karlsson wasn't that and having him play it would have taken away from his real talent.
if we had such a player and as a result Ceci played less regularly against top lines and was starting in the o zone more frequently, what would he look like?
He would still make all the defensive brain farts he does now..... remember, he’s not starting ALL his shifts in the defensive zone. He starting most of them there. 55% is not 100% obviously. It’s not like ceci is an offensive catalyst 45% of the time
no he isn't an offensive catalyst but I think in a less demanding defensive role you'd see more offence come from him
What have you seen from Ceci since he's been in the lineup full time (2014-15) that makes you believe he has more to contribute offensively? And how would that offense take shape? More SoG, goals, assists?
an interesting thing to think about...what if we had a true "shut down" guy on the right side? Karlsson wasn't that and having him play it would have taken away from his real talent.
if we had such a player and as a result Ceci played less regularly against top lines and was starting in the o zone more frequently, what would he look like?
Well he starts in the O zone about half the time. Whenever in an offensive situation he’s shown veeerrrryy little ability to create/score/showcase some hockey sense. I don’t think he has the talent to be offensive at the nhl level. (Yes. I’m aware that there was a twenty game sample of a season somewhere and one season he had 30 points). In junior he was simply stronger and faster than most opponents and it showed. He’s not a pro offensive defenseman. And he’s not a shutdown guy the guy is a bottom pairing d man. He was just as scrambly in junior as he is here though.no he isn't an offensive catalyst but I think in a less demanding defensive role you'd see more offence come from him
He’s your very typical bottom pairing d man. Except teams were offering up good players in return for this bottom pairing d manCeci does not have the tools to be a threat offensively. He has zero vision and passing abilities, he takes a long time to get his shot off too.
Is he a puck mover? Two - way dman? Offensive/defensive dman?
He’s just bad.
What have you seen from Ceci since he's been in the lineup full time (2014-15) that makes you believe he has more to contribute offensively? And how would that offense take shape? More SoG, goals, assists?
Thats what it seems like to me. He is also the only one using logic apparently.So you don't want to have a discussion on the subject, you just want to assert your point of view with zero information to back it? Got it!