Player Discussion Cody Ceci | Part IV

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

We've gone through multiple coaches. And some of those have been fairly good NHL-level defenceman.
Luke Richardson was an unremarkable but solid defenceman for close to 20 years,
Jason Smith was an average to above average D for 10+ years.
We've had coaches trying to coach uptempo (MacLean, Boucher now) and coaches trying to round out the defensive game (Boucher then, Cameron). No, we've never had a top-tier coach here, but the fundamentals of hockey don't really change a lot: have a good vision of the ice, anticipate various attack formations, choose someone to cover, make a good first pass, etc.

Cody Ceci is average. Cody Ceci is here because he's from Orléans. On a team like Tampa Bay or Columbus or Philly or whomever, Ceci is a third pairing, maybe second pairing guy. He's been pushed here (like Cowen, good comparison) for many reasons: high draft pick, local kid, lack of depth at the position, etc.
Ceci and Boro need to go. Ceci because he's not a shutdown guy and this narrative needs to end.
Boro because his importance has become outsized in this market, and he needs ot be soemwhere where he's simply a bottom pairing guy or an AHLer or a healthy scratch. Those things won't happen here because the team is too generous with ice time and too attached to the local player.

Maybe Ceci prices himself out of our budget. Hopefully he does, for our defence corps' sake.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Cowen actually had offensive ability compared to Ceci, was physical and could drop the gloves. Injuries did him in quite a bit as much as others wouldn't like to think

 

[topshelf15]

Cowen actually had offensive ability compared to Ceci, was physical and could drop the gloves. Injuries did him in quite a bit as much as others wouldn't like to think

His head like Lehner also got in the way,he was pretty stubborn

 

[Boud]

I honestly see no way Ceci ends the year in Ottawa. The guy will ask for far too much as a UFA and a team will give him a Karl Alzner-esque contract. He likely has more value on the market given his age, "potential" (not that I think he does), and the severe lack of RD in the league. Some GMs might be willing to give something somewhat valuable for him and that should be a no brainer considering who we have to sign and how much he'll ask for.

If they commit long term to Ceci it will be a mistake, we have bigger guys we need to keep and Ceci should in no way go in front of them considering we're in a rebuild.

The guy just doesn't look very good .... you just look at a guy like Demelo and he's much more composed with the puck, he makes simple but effective plays and he's been better early on than Ceci has been with this team for the past two years. Demelo also makes 950K and was a UFA last summer. In my mind, from what I've seen from here in the last two years he's very easily replaceable, especially for the money he's asking for. We could've dealt Ceci and signed De Haan (Although he might not have signed here)....
I'd rather have De Haan playing his off side than Ceci playing his natural side.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I honestly see no way Ceci ends the year in Ottawa. The guy will ask for far too much as a UFA and a team will give him a Karl Alzner-esque contract. He likely has more value on the market given his age, "potential" (not that I think he does), and the severe lack of RD in the league. Some GMs might be willing to give something somewhat valuable for him and that should be a no brainer considering who we have to sign and how much he'll ask for.

If they commit long term to Ceci it will be a mistake, we have bigger guys we need to keep and Ceci should in no way go in front of them considering we're in a rebuild.

The guy just doesn't look very good .... you just look at a guy like Demelo and he's much more composed with the puck, he makes simple but effective plays and he's been better early on than Ceci has been with this team for the past two years. Demelo also makes 950K and was a UFA last summer. In my mind, from what I've seen from here in the last two years he's very easily replaceable, especially for the money he's asking for. We could've dealt Ceci and signed De Haan (Although he might not have signed here)....
I'd rather have De Haan playing his off side than Ceci playing his natural side.

Apparently we offered Ceci a long term deal before arbitration, but it doesn't make much sense to me because if we wanted him long term, why didn't we elect for a two year term at arbitration? It would have cost controlled Ceci. We would have had him for two years at less than what we offered long term. Where as now, if he goes to arbitration the floor is his current salary, he could potentially get more.

I figured that maybe being able to sign him to a long term extension in January 2019 instead of July 2019 might have been our motivation, but that still doesn't make much sense. Is there really a big difference to us?

I wonder if the Ceci extension was a planned leak or something to try and up his perceived value, and if we never actually offered him a long term contract. I just can't see the logic in going one year instead of two on a player we supposedly want to keep around.

If we went two years, the only negative I can think of is that he'd be less marketable as a trade piece at the trade deadline and we'd have to wait until the summer to trade him with an extension baked in.

I don't think Ceci is as replaceable as you make him out to be, finding top 4 D-men isn't easy. I don't think he's a top pairing guy, and I don't think we should pay him like a low end top pairing defender which is probably what he is looking for. Considering we're supposedly rebuilding, our best play is to try and move him in a trade for futures either at the deadline or the draft. I'd hope we can get a mid to late 1st in a package for him.

 

[Tuna99]

I think the way he's playing Ceci would be lucky to get $4 million long term, lot's of bad GM's out there but Ceci has no track record and his game is going against the speed and skill of the NHL

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I'd hope it's just the coach protecting their egoes honestly.

There is no way anyone can watch them play together and think its ok. Thing is, he isn't going to go on tv/radio and say "ya they suck so we are splitting them up".

We just need Ceci to get confident, he might not be great but he doesn't seem very confident right now so he isn't as good as he can be. That confidence will not be found playing alongside Borocop.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I think the way he's playing Ceci would be lucky to get $4 million long term, lot's of bad GM's out there but Ceci has no track record and his game is going against the speed and skill of the NHL

I disagree.

Veteran top 4 money is 4M-5M these days with the cap being where it is. RDs also come at a premium. If Ceci was a free agent this summer, I think he would have gotten a big offer from somebody. Hell, we (apparently) offered him nearly 5M on a 6 year term. A neutral arbitrator gave him 4.3M on a 1 year RFA deal. We've also heard rumours throughout the year of other GMs being interested in him (Yzerman, Chiarelli, possibly Sakic).

I think there's a lot of GMs out there who'd see Ceci as having the skillset and ability to handle top 4 minutes. A team with cap and a solid defense already in place would go after him. There's so many examples of iffy "top 4" defenders getting 4M+ and term. Even Kulikov last year got north of 4 for multiple years. Ian Cole who there was barely a market for in a trade just got the same this season. Look at Detroit locking up Dekeyser at 5M x 6 years. There's just so many examples.

If Ceci ends up traded this season, I'll be very surprised if he doesn't end up extended with an AAV at or north of 5M on at least a 4 year deal.

 

[Boud]

Apparently we offered Ceci a long term deal before arbitration, but it doesn't make much sense to me because if we wanted him long term, why didn't we elect for a two year term at arbitration? It would have cost controlled Ceci. We would have had him for two years at less than what we offered long term. Where as now, if he goes to arbitration the floor is his current salary, he could potentially get more.

I figured that maybe being able to sign him to a long term extension in January 2019 instead of July 2019 might have been our motivation, but that still doesn't make much sense. Is there really a big difference to us?

I wonder if the Ceci extension was a planned leak or something to try and up his perceived value, and if we never actually offered him a long term contract. I just can't see the logic in going one year instead of two on a player we supposedly want to keep around.

If we went two years, the only negative I can think of is that he'd be less marketable as a trade piece at the trade deadline and we'd have to wait until the summer to trade him with an extension baked in.

I don't think Ceci is as replaceable as you make him out to be, finding top 4 D-men isn't easy. I don't think he's a top pairing guy, and I don't think we should pay him like a low end top pairing defender which is probably what he is looking for. Considering we're supposedly rebuilding, our best play is to try and move him in a trade for futures either at the deadline or the draft. I'd hope we can get a mid to late 1st in a package for him.

It's a good point you make.

Wouldn't Ceci have been a UFA had the team opted for a 2 year deal? (I'm honestly not sure) by giving him a year he is cost controlled and has more value to a team potentially acquiring him. Although it could also just be the team wanting "more time" to see how he would play this season before giving him a long term deal. One other thing could be that this is giving them more flexibility if they want to sign Stone, Duchene and Dzingel. I think signing him to a 1 year deal just made a lot of sense giving the flexibility and value that it gives us and also it makes Ceci more motivated given that he is on a contract year (which also potentially gives him more value as a trade chip).

The problem I have with Ceci is that while most people seem to agree that he's 100% a top 4 defensemen, he just hasn't played well in a top 4 role. The only time Ceci was good in a Sens jersey was when he was playing with Chris Phillips on the 3rd pair, and he was just alright for a while on the 2nd pair with Wiercioch (and to be honest it was mostly Wiercioch looking good offensively). Other than that he's played up and down but has just never been good. Ceci plays top 4 minutes but playing top 4 minutes and failing hard at it doesn't mean you are a top 4 defensemen in my mind. Just because he's young and has good physical attributes (size, skating, shot), and plays a lot of minutes it's like everyone just accepts that he is in fact a top 4 defensemen. Somewhat like Karl Alzner was. Alzner was universally agreed to and seen as a top 4 defensemen, not a good one, not a bad one, but an okay one. Then he goes to another team and they play him in a top 4 role just to realize that he doesn't have the vision and skill to play those minutes and now Alzner is a 4-5M healthy scratch in favour of waiver fodder Xavier Ouellette who's honestly playing better than Alzner. Other examples would be Erik Gudbranson, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi or Luca Sbisa early in his career. These guys were seen as top 4 defensemen until it was simply clear that they weren't. There are many examples of these guys that are just not good or are 3rd pairing guys but people still see them as top 4 D for a reason or another.

Sometimes we just see guys and accept that they are something ... until they just aren't. Ceci doesn't have the vision. The guy legitimately has a hard time getting the puck out of the defensive zone. This is not the 90s anymore. Every single defensemen on the team needs to be able to move the puck efficiently and with confidence, especially in the top 4 since they play against top 6 players. Unless there is a dramatic change of how Ceci plays the game with the puck, he will never be a top 4 defensemen.

 

[Alex1234]

I disagree.

Veteran top 4 money is 4M-5M these days with the cap being where it is. RDs also come at a premium. If Ceci was a free agent this summer, I think he would have gotten a big offer from somebody. Hell, we (apparently) offered him nearly 5M on a 6 year term. A neutral arbitrator gave him 4.3M on a 1 year RFA deal. We've also heard rumours throughout the year of other GMs being interested in him (Yzerman, Chiarelli, possibly Sakic).

I think there's a lot of GMs out there who'd see Ceci as having the skillset and ability to handle top 4 minutes. A team with cap and a solid defense already in place would go after him. There's so many examples of iffy "top 4" defenders getting 4M+ and term. Even Kulikov last year got north of 4 for multiple years. Ian Cole who there was barely a market for in a trade just got the same this season. Look at Detroit locking up Dekeyser at 5M x 6 years. There's just so many examples.

If Ceci ends up traded this season, I'll be very surprised if he doesn't end up extended with an AAV at or north of 5M on at least a 4 year deal.

Maybe
And good for him
We just don't need him here at 5x4 for what he brings
Bring the kids up and I bet you we don't lose every game 10-2
We are rebuilding

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Maybe
And good for him
We just don't need him here at 5x4 for what he brings
Bring the kids up and I bet you we don't lose every game 10-2
We are rebuilding

Great surprise in Lajoie, Nice surprise in Demelo, maybe we actually have someone else that would surprise us and be more effective. But keep going to the same well that has produced nothing for the 2 + years now

 

[danielpalfredsson]

It's a good point you make.

Wouldn't Ceci have been a UFA had the team opted for a 2 year deal? (I'm honestly not sure) by giving him a year he is cost controlled and has more value to a team potentially acquiring him. Although it could also just be the team wanting "more time" to see how he would play this season before giving him a long term deal. One other thing could be that this is giving them more flexibility if they want to sign Stone, Duchene and Dzingel. I think signing him to a 1 year deal just made a lot of sense giving the flexibility and value that it gives us and also it makes Ceci more motivated given that he is on a contract year (which also potentially gives him more value as a trade chip).

The problem I have with Ceci is that while most people seem to agree that he's 100% a top 4 defensemen, he just hasn't played well in a top 4 role. The only time Ceci was good in a Sens jersey was when he was playing with Chris Phillips on the 3rd pair, and he was just alright for a while on the 2nd pair with Wiercioch (and to be honest it was mostly Wiercioch looking good offensively). Other than that he's played up and down but has just never been good. Ceci plays top 4 minutes but playing top 4 minutes and failing hard at it doesn't mean you are a top 4 defensemen in my mind. Just because he's young and has good physical attributes (size, skating, shot), and plays a lot of minutes it's like everyone just accepts that he is in fact a top 4 defensemen. Somewhat like Karl Alzner was. Alzner was universally agreed to and seen as a top 4 defensemen, not a good one, not a bad one, but an okay one. Then he goes to another team and they play him in a top 4 role just to realize that he doesn't have the vision and skill to play those minutes and now Alzner is a 4-5M healthy scratch in favour of waiver fodder Xavier Ouellette who's honestly playing better than Alzner. Other examples would be Erik Gudbranson, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi or Luca Sbisa early in his career. These guys were seen as top 4 defensemen until it was simply clear that they weren't. There are many examples of these guys that are just not good or are 3rd pairing guys but people still see them as top 4 D for a reason or another.

Sometimes we just see guys and accept that they are something ... until they just aren't. Ceci doesn't have the vision. The guy legitimately has a hard time getting the puck out of the defensive zone. This is not the 90s anymore. Every single defensemen on the team needs to be able to move the puck efficiently and with confidence, especially in the top 4 since they play against top 6 players. Unless there is a dramatic change of how Ceci plays the game with the puck, he will never be a top 4 defensemen.

Straight to UFA doesn't matter because he goes straight to UFA anyways next year after we settle on a 1 year deal again.

There are three advantages to a 1 year deal.

1) Ceci can extend sooner, either with us or a team we trade him to (January)

2) We can opt to not qualify the player if they stink and not be stuck with them for a second year. Although in Ceci's case this makes little sense as a consideration if it is true we were open to a long term deal.

3) He can be traded as a rental at the deadline if he stinks because a team won't have to qualify him if they don't want to.

Most of the advantages are predicated on the player being inconsistent and possibly not worth the web settlement. In the case of a player we thought highly enough of to offer a long term deal to, the one year ruling makes no sense.

It makes me think the plan is to trade him before the deadline with an extension baked in for maximum value. I am not saying Shawn Simpsons' source was bad, but the entire thing makes little sense.

 

[slamigo]

Was watching the game on Monday with my kid and he just randomly and genuinely asked “Maybe Ceci just isn’t that smart?”
Some players have all the tools but can’t process fast enough. Sometimes his decision making is his worst attribute.

 

[Boud]

Was watching the game on Monday with my kid and he just randomly and genuinely asked “Maybe Ceci just isn’t that smart?”
Some players have all the tools but can’t process fast enough. Sometimes his decision making is his worst attribute.

This is honestly exactly it. Many players in the league don't have the physical attributes that Ceci has and are just much much better players. He's a good skater, he's strong , he can log a ton of minutes, he's got a good reach, wicked slapper, he's commited to being the best player he can be and works hard but unfortunately there's one thing missing and it's the most important in today's NHL: Transition game.

The guy just cannot transition the play from defense to offense it's mind numbing that he still makes the mistakes he does after 400 NHL games.

Maybe it's a confidence thing, maybe he puts too much pressure on himself, maybe Boucher just rushed him into the shutdown D role and he lost his offensive flair. Hard to tell. I can see why teams would be interested in Ceci but it's time for him to get a change of scenery with players that surround him better and maybe a coach that's willing to give him a different role.

 

[Icelevel]

That is mostly it. He is not smart.
Same with boro.
Same with cowen.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Cowen actually had offensive ability compared to Ceci, was physical and could drop the gloves. Injuries did him in quite a bit as much as others wouldn't like to think

cowen at his worst was the worst d man I ever saw play in the NHL.. Ceci is yet to hit those lows.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

His head like Lehner also got in the way,he was pretty stubborn

maybe.. sometimes his mistakes were so horrible I thought he was doing them just to spite his teammates.

 

[Clayonator]

I think best case scenerio at this point is to keep Ceci with Lajoie. They looked good against Toronto, and the latter at the very least softens some of the former’s flaws. Chabot and DeMelo should be left alone, and if you pair Boro with Ceci I think it goes unsaid what type of results we’re looking at.

I have a pipe dream where we trade Ceci plus a valuable asset or two to the Jets for Trouba. That’s just it though, a pipe dream.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

cowen at his worst was the worst d man I ever saw play in the NHL.. Ceci is yet to hit those lows.

You were the biggest Cowen detractor in the NHL though

 

[NyQuil]

Goals against:

1. Nikita Zaitsev 9 TOR
2. Cody Ceci 8 OTT
2. Zdeno Chara 8 BOS
2. Ron Hainsey 8 TOR
5. Auston Matthews 7 TOR
5. Mark Stone 7 OTT
5. PK Subban 7 NSH
5. Chris Tanev 7 VAN
5. Mika Zibanejad 7 NYR
5. Patrick Marleau 7 TOR
5. Chris Kreider 7 NYR
5. Erik Karlsson 7 SJS
5. Bo Horvat 7 VAN
5. Alexander Edler 7 VAN
5. Mark Borowiecki 7 BOS
5. Brock Boeser 7 VAN
5. Mats Zuccarello 7 NYR

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You were the biggest Cowen detractor in the NHL though

Saurus is in the NHL?

 

[NyQuil]

I'm tired of the excuses for Ceci.

He has 4 and a half seasons under his belt.

 

[swiftwin]

Goals against:

1. Nikita Zaitsev 9 TOR
2. Cody Ceci 8 OTT
2. Zdeno Chara 8 BOS
2. Ron Hainsey 8 TOR
5. Auston Matthews 7 TOR
5. Mark Stone 7 OTT
5. PK Subban 7 NSH
5. Chris Tanev 7 VAN
5. Mika Zibanejad 7 NYR
5. Patrick Marleau 7 TOR
5. Chris Kreider 7 NYR
5. Erik Karlsson 7 SJS
5. Bo Horvat 7 VAN
5. Alexander Edler 7 VAN
5. Mark Borowiecki 7 BOS
5. Brock Boeser 7 VAN
5. Mats Zuccarello 7 NYR

So what you're saying is Ceci is as good as Zdeno Chara?