Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread 3

[Eyeseeing]

Nothing against Pascal but no big loss seeing him leave IMO, he didn’t bring anything special.

Same can be said of Maurice honestly.

 

[Hunter368]

Same can be said of Maurice honestly.

Ive made opinion heard in this thread multi times on PMO & the entire coaching staff…….but that’s a moot subject b/c based on season ending comments by Chevy PMO isn’t going anywhere this summer and will at least start next year with the Jets

 

[Flair Hay]

The flip side is that it can be better as well. You need to take risks to win in this league and sometimes I find this org is far too conservative and ok with the status quo.

I can see that side for sure. I've tried to appreciate what Maurice does bring. But I'm not blind either, I've seen the success several teams have had in the last decade or so the season they let their coach go

It seems very much like a one season solution to me, not a permanent fix. But my sense is Maurice has a very short leash next season once Chevy gets him a real d core again this summer

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I do think one day Pascal gets to see himself on the front end of an NHL bench, but he'll be that one guy who is on a bad team before he makes a return to the Q before making a return as an NHL head coach again and heads to the Q before retiring as a coach for good.

 

[surixon]

I can see that side for sure. I've tried to appreciate what Maurice does bring. But I'm not blind either, I've seen the success several teams have had in the last decade or so the season they let their coach go

It seems very much like a one season solution to me, not a permanent fix. But my sense is Maurice has a very short leash next season once Chevy gets him a real d core again this summer

I'm not really looking for that short bump in performance. I'm looking for some fresh ideas and a different perspective.

I want a coach that can best marry the current core with our future young core of Dubois, Heinola, Perfetti etc and implement a game plan that is based a bit.more on skill/puck movement and puck support. I don't think Maurice's more straight lined, get pucks deep North/South scheme is really a git with this group we have now and coming up.

I guess we will see what changes next year if Chevy picks up some dmen.

 

[Jet]

I realize he had a different mandate with the Moose, but his record as a head coach was 137-126-26 at the AHL level, and missed the playoffs 3 of 4 years.

I liked how they played at times, but it's not like the Moose took the AHL by storm under his coaching.

And they had some really nice pieces since you know Maurice holds all our youngsters back. Guys who would slide in and immediately play in our top half of the roster

I know people hate Maurice but the cognitive dissonance is thick here sometimes

 

[WPGChief]

I realize he had a different mandate with the Moose, but his record as a head coach was 137-126-26 at the AHL level, and missed the playoffs 3 of 4 years.

I liked how they played at times, but it's not like the Moose took the AHL by storm under his coaching.

So based on everything I've heard, in his first year in 2016-17 he was told to replicate the Jets system exactly, with a focus on developing younger players. Jack Roslovic and Kyle Connor had their best pro seasons to date then, and his third-highest scorer was a relative ECHL unknown in Dan DeSalvo. In 2017-18, he got a bit more freedoms in the systems but lost both of Roslovic and Connor, yet easily replaced them with breakout seasons from first-year pros in Appleton (Most Outstanding Rookie) and Niku (Best Defenceman) with contributions from AHL regulars Buddy Robinson, Nic Petan, and Patrice Cormier helping them. Vincent deservedly got Most Outstanding Coach that season. Oh yeah, and meanwhile Hutchinson (Second All-Star Team) was having a hissy-fit behind the scenes the entire time.

The next season in 2018-19, they just missed out on the playoffs by 2pts thanks to a horrid losing streak in the middle of the season due to injuries on both the Jets and the Moose (the whole Niku debacle, same with Appleton and Poolman), along with Eric Comrie having his tour around the world and having to roll with Berdin for a ton of starts (and a lot of them back-to-back (meanwhile Berdin's way to refresh after a game, if I recall correctly, was quote: "a bottle of coke")): they had 41 different players that season playing a game for them. They certainly weren't going to make the playoffs in 2019-20 regardless of them being cancelled (and he had to adjust his own systems to the Jets changes, too), but yet again Vincent saw some breakout seasons from first-year pros in Gawanke, Kovacevic, and then Gustafsson to close the season. With this pandemic-Canadian-only season, his stable team had the second best record as he kept the team engaged when they had nearly 2-3 week breaks in between games sometimes.

In other words: no, I don't think Vincent necessarily took the AHL by storm, a la Sheldon Keefe with the Marlies (and their endless pool of money to get good AHL players), but season after season he routinely saw breakout years from Jets prospects in their first years as pros - planned or not. His mandate certainly wasn't to be the top AHL team every year, it was to get players ready to jump into the Jets systems if they were ever called up, but his best contributions were probably unlocking the offences of Roslovic, Connor, Lemieux, Lipon (who I know the Jets really liked and wanted to be a 4th line pest but never could), Appleton, Niku, Griffith, Spacek, Harkins, Vesalainen, Suess, Gawanke; and in his now last season, Nathan Todd, Cole Perfetti, and David Gustafsson. I think at least 10 of those 15 players are NHL players today or could be NHL players tomorrow. That's an excellent track record of graduating prospects for an AHL Head Coach, especially when I'd say maybe 3of them weren't thought of having any NHL ceilings by the time they reached the AHL.

I think he'll do well in CBJ with them introducing a ton of youth as early as this upcoming season if he replicates similar success that he had in unlocking/trusting the youth's innate talents on offence, and could be well on his way to a NHL HC job sooner than later. He's really proven himself at every level.

 

[tbcwpg]

So based on everything I've heard, in his first year in 2016-17 he was told to replicate the Jets system exactly, with a focus on developing younger players. Jack Roslovic and Kyle Connor had their best pro seasons to date then, and his third-highest scorer was a relative ECHL unknown in Dan DeSalvo. In 2017-18, he got a bit more freedoms in the systems but lost both of Roslovic and Connor, yet easily replaced them with breakout seasons from first-year pros in Appleton (Most Outstanding Rookie) and Niku (Best Defenceman) with contributions from AHL regulars Buddy Robinson, Nic Petan, and Patrice Cormier helping them. Vincent deservedly got Most Outstanding Coach that season. Oh yeah, and meanwhile Hutchinson (Second All-Star Team) was having a hissy-fit behind the scenes the entire time.

The next season in 2018-19, they just missed out on the playoffs by 2pts thanks to a horrid losing streak in the middle of the season due to injuries on both the Jets and the Moose (the whole Niku debacle, same with Appleton and Poolman), along with Eric Comrie having his tour around the world and having to roll with Berdin for a ton of starts (and a lot of them back-to-back (meanwhile Berdin's way to refresh after a game, if I recall correctly, was quote: "a bottle of coke")): they had 41 different players that season playing a game for them. They certainly weren't going to make the playoffs in 2019-20 regardless of them being cancelled (and he had to adjust his own systems to the Jets changes, too), but yet again Vincent saw some breakout seasons from first-year pros in Gawanke, Kovacevic, and then Gustafsson to close the season. With this pandemic-Canadian-only season, his stable team had the second best record as he kept the team engaged when they had nearly 2-3 week breaks in between games sometimes.

In other words: no, I don't think Vincent necessarily took the AHL by storm, a la Sheldon Keefe with the Marlies (and their endless pool of money to get good AHL players), but season after season he routinely saw breakout years from Jets prospects in their first years as pros - planned or not. His mandate certainly wasn't to be the top AHL team every year, it was to get players ready to jump into the Jets systems if they were ever called up, but his best contributions were probably unlocking the offences of Roslovic, Connor, Lemieux, Lipon (who I know the Jets really liked and wanted to be a 4th line pest but never could), Appleton, Niku, Griffith, Spacek, Harkins, Vesalainen, Suess, Gawanke; and in his now last season, Nathan Todd, Cole Perfetti, and David Gustafsson. I think at least 10 of those 15 players are NHL players today or could be NHL players tomorrow. That's an excellent track record of graduating prospects for an AHL Head Coach, especially when I'd say maybe 3of them weren't thought of having any NHL ceilings by the time they reached the AHL.

I think he'll do well in CBJ with them introducing a ton of youth as early as this upcoming season if he replicates similar success that he had in unlocking/trusting the youth's innate talents on offence, and could be well on his way to a NHL HC job sooner than later. He's really proven himself at every level.

I think he will eventually be an NHL coach, but my initial thoughts are that he'd be a good coach on a developing team, and I'm unsure how good he'd be on a contender. We won't know until he gets that chance, obviously, but that's just my initial impression.

 

[Whileee]

So based on everything I've heard, in his first year in 2016-17 he was told to replicate the Jets system exactly, with a focus on developing younger players. Jack Roslovic and Kyle Connor had their best pro seasons to date then, and his third-highest scorer was a relative ECHL unknown in Dan DeSalvo. In 2017-18, he got a bit more freedoms in the systems but lost both of Roslovic and Connor, yet easily replaced them with breakout seasons from first-year pros in Appleton (Most Outstanding Rookie) and Niku (Best Defenceman) with contributions from AHL regulars Buddy Robinson, Nic Petan, and Patrice Cormier helping them. Vincent deservedly got Most Outstanding Coach that season. Oh yeah, and meanwhile Hutchinson (Second All-Star Team) was having a hissy-fit behind the scenes the entire time.

The next season in 2018-19, they just missed out on the playoffs by 2pts thanks to a horrid losing streak in the middle of the season due to injuries on both the Jets and the Moose (the whole Niku debacle, same with Appleton and Poolman), along with Eric Comrie having his tour around the world and having to roll with Berdin for a ton of starts (and a lot of them back-to-back (meanwhile Berdin's way to refresh after a game, if I recall correctly, was quote: "a bottle of coke")): they had 41 different players that season playing a game for them. They certainly weren't going to make the playoffs in 2019-20 regardless of them being cancelled (and he had to adjust his own systems to the Jets changes, too), but yet again Vincent saw some breakout seasons from first-year pros in Gawanke, Kovacevic, and then Gustafsson to close the season. With this pandemic-Canadian-only season, his stable team had the second best record as he kept the team engaged when they had nearly 2-3 week breaks in between games sometimes.

In other words: no, I don't think Vincent necessarily took the AHL by storm, a la Sheldon Keefe with the Marlies (and their endless pool of money to get good AHL players), but season after season he routinely saw breakout years from Jets prospects in their first years as pros - planned or not. His mandate certainly wasn't to be the top AHL team every year, it was to get players ready to jump into the Jets systems if they were ever called up, but his best contributions were probably unlocking the offences of Roslovic, Connor, Lemieux, Lipon (who I know the Jets really liked and wanted to be a 4th line pest but never could), Appleton, Niku, Griffith, Spacek, Harkins, Vesalainen, Suess, Gawanke; and in his now last season, Nathan Todd, Cole Perfetti, and David Gustafsson. I think at least 10 of those 15 players are NHL players today or could be NHL players tomorrow. That's an excellent track record of graduating prospects for an AHL Head Coach, especially when I'd say maybe 3of them weren't thought of having any NHL ceilings by the time they reached the AHL.

I think he'll do well in CBJ with them introducing a ton of youth as early as this upcoming season if he replicates similar success that he had in unlocking/trusting the youth's innate talents on offence, and could be well on his way to a NHL HC job sooner than later. He's really proven himself at every level.

I like Vincent a lot, and think he'll be a loss to the organization. He's done a good job developing some players, though I'm sometimes unsure what credit goes where in the development process. As an example, Stanley was considered a bust that was sinking at the end of last season, but has been a revelation after a strong off-season of training, it seems. I wonder what role the Jets' development personnel have in the whole mix.

In any case, I think Vincent will be an asset for Columbus, and probably has potential to be an effective NHL coach some day, in the right circumstance.

I'll miss his terrific interviews, and hope the Jets don't lose much in their development system.

 

[ps241]

So

Am I the only person that is resigned to the idea Maurice is probably here for the long haul? I don’t dwell allot in the coaching thread since I believe Paul is secure.

 

[Flair Hay]

So

Am I the only person that is resigned to the idea Maurice is probably here for the long haul? I don’t dwell allot in the coaching thread since I believe Paul is secure.

Same here. I think this year will be similar to 2018. Chevy will fix all the holes on defense. He will have veteran depth. And no forcing Maurice to play any kids he doesnt want to.

It will be no excuses time for Maurice. If it goes well, he probably gets another extension. If we spend money and it doesnt worm, I can absolutely see a change mid season. Last time, the team responded well to the extra depth we added. Hopefully something similar happens this time around.

 

[Ducky10]

So

Am I the only person that is resigned to the idea Maurice is probably here for the long haul? I don’t dwell allot in the coaching thread since I believe Paul is secure.

Oh I’ve accepted that since mid season. It’s always been pretty obvious Maurice was coming back for at least next season. Long haul though? I guess that depends what you mean by long haul. If, and that might be a big if, Chevy addresses the shortcomings on the blue line, then I believe Maurice will be on a shorter leash than maybe some think. If he doesn’t have a more talented team in a playoff spot by the beginning of Dec, I think it’s possible they make a change.

 

[JetsUK]

So

Am I the only person that is resigned to the idea Maurice is probably here for the long haul? I don’t dwell allot in the coaching thread since I believe Paul is secure.

I'm with you. It's pretty much ride or die under the PoMo "No ketchup" flag for the Jets, and he's here until he isn't. I have some hope that Chevy still has some say in terms of getting young talent into the lineup and sticking there, and maybe roadblocking some of the more egregious gudvetitis, but I don't have much faith that he can shape the team beyond that.

Hopefully there's a shored-up defence and systems reshuffle accordingly, because I don't think I can do another year of chaos D, perimeter forward play, and the ol' close your eyes and pray for Helle PK.

But yeah, he's the coach, and runs that bench, until he isn't. Here's to an offseason of analysis and retrospection and a fresh look and team commitment in the Fall. Please.

 

[tbcwpg]

So

Am I the only person that is resigned to the idea Maurice is probably here for the long haul? I don’t dwell allot in the coaching thread since I believe Paul is secure.

To start the season, sure. I don't think he's on the hot seat. I think the seat could get hot pretty quickly with a poor start, though. I think he's less secure than he has been in years past. The following season will depend heavily on how 2021-22 turns out given the team option on his contract for 2022-23.

 

[ps241]

Same here. I think this year will be similar to 2018. Chevy will fix all the holes on defense. He will have veteran depth. And no forcing Maurice to play any kids he doesnt want to.

It will be no excuses time for Maurice. If it goes well, he probably gets another extension. If we spend money and it doesnt worm, I can absolutely see a change mid season. Last time, the team responded well to the extra depth we added. Hopefully something similar happens this time around.

Oh I’ve accepted that since mid season. It’s always been pretty obvious Maurice was coming back for at least next season. Long haul though? I guess that depends what you mean by long haul. If, and that might be a big if, Chevy addresses the shortcomings on the blue line, then I believe Maurice will be on a shorter leash than maybe some think. If he doesn’t have a more talented team in a playoff spot by the beginning of Dec, I think it’s possible they make a change.

I believe he is held in high regard by the organization. I think he is in danger when the team quits on him. I don’t see him getting fired until then. That is my assumption and not a fact but it allows me to move on. I struggle with “dwelling” on negative uncontrollable variables.

I am an HFBoards fan so I too obviously love to weigh in and fake micro manage but I struggle with “death loops” in the uncontrollable category. With Paul it helps me to optimize my fan tolerance to assume he is here for the long term.

 

[Ducky10]

I believe he is held in high regard by the organization. I think he is in danger when the team quits on him. I don’t see him getting fired until then. That is my assumption and not a fact but it allows me to move on. I struggle with “dwelling” on negative uncontrollable variables.

I am an HFBoards fan so I too obviously love to weigh in and fake micro manage but I struggle with “death loops” in the uncontrollable category. With Paul it helps me to optimize my fan tolerance to assume he is here for the long term.

I don’t disagree. I enjoy the conversation about why I think the Jets should move on from him (not that I’m necessarily right about it), but I don’t obsess or dwell on the fact he still is. He’s here until he’s not, I just follow the team regardless.

 

[Flair Hay]

I believe he is held in high regard by the organization. I think he is in danger when the team quits on him. I don’t see him getting fired until then. That is my assumption and not a fact but it allows me to move on. I struggle with “dwelling” on negative uncontrollable variables.

I am an HFBoards fan so I too obviously love to weigh in and fake micro manage but I struggle with “death loops” in the uncontrollable category. With Paul it helps me to optimize my fan tolerance to assume he is here for the long term.

I also tend to avoid the fire the coach discussion. It's just a big whine fest most of the time.

But I do think there will be a move made if things arent moving in the right direction half way through the season. I'm optimistic that like last time, it will not come to that.

Chevy has an advantage over lots of teams with the flat cap and having space. He can either get some better UFA than usual, or maybe even better... may be able to pick up cap casualties from teams that make the big moves or need to shed salary (Tampa, Philly, Vegas, etc)

With some depth in the right places to fix the leaks, this team is better than most in the Western Conference.

 

[snowkiddin]

So

Am I the only person that is resigned to the idea Maurice is probably here for the long haul? I don’t dwell allot in the coaching thread since I believe Paul is secure.

Maurice should’ve been fired two years ago after the STL series but the past couple of seasons he hasn’t had a great roster to work with (of course, his coaching systems and lineup decisions haven’t been fantastic either) so I think he’ll have some leash.

I want him gone but I’ll keep the supporting the team while he’s here because, like you say, he’s here until he isn’t.

 

[Flair Hay]

Maurice should’ve been fired two years ago after the STL series but the past couple of seasons he hasn’t had a great roster to work with (of course, his coaching systems and lineup decisions haven’t been fantastic either) so I think he’ll have some leash.

I want him gone but I’ll keep the supporting the team while he’s here because, like you say, he’s here until he isn’t.

Losing to STL was disappointing for sure. That one was supposed to be our year, and they came in and took it from us.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Losing to STL was disappointing for sure. That one was supposed to be our year, and they came in and took it from us.

The team hasn’t been the same since the backslide in 18/19.

 

[Flair Hay]

The team hasn’t been the same since the backslide in 18/19.

Yeah, true. I tend to be optimistic and attribute 90% of that to our huge exodus of players

2019 just didnt have the special sauce 2nd half of the season the way 2018 did, no denying that.

 

[Daximus]

Yeah, true. I tend to be optimistic and attribute 90% of that to our huge exodus of players

2019 just didnt have the special sauce 2nd half of the season the way 2018 did, no denying that.

I think there was just to many distractions with the Trouba situation and this and that and the other thing. Locker room issues, fights in practice. It seemed like a lot of the guys were just going through the motions. This year it seems like we are finally back to guys being happy and focused.

 

[Teemusalami204]

So

Am I the only person that is resigned to the idea Maurice is probably here for the long haul? I don’t dwell allot in the coaching thread since I believe Paul is secure.

4 year plan . Been saying this for a while now.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

So

Am I the only person that is resigned to the idea Maurice is probably here for the long haul? I don’t dwell allot in the coaching thread since I believe Paul is secure.

Maurice is Jets Head Coach for life. Or until he takes a 'promotion' to the front office to be {insert impressive sounding if you say it fast job title of the day here}.

 

[Jets 31]

Chevy fired Noel pretty quick, i think Maurice is here as long as Chevy is.