I'm seriously struggling to see why so many Coyote fans saying things like "we knew Clarke was never really happening", like...why? It's f***ing Brandt Clark, it's not Rasmus Dahlin, the former wasn't even the 1st, 2nd or 3rd picked dman in his own draft class. He's a great prospect, don't get me wrong, but this talk about how the Coyotes are delusional to think Chychrun lands them Clark seem a bit ridiculous to me. Am I missing something, is Clarke a franchise D or something? Is he a near lock to be waaaaay better than Chychrun himself? I just don't get it, sometimes I think Coyotes fans are so used to being taken advantage of that we just can't fathom having it any other way.
Rumor: Chychrun To LA for Clarke
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Clarke plays RD and is tall so with that alone he has value. What's special about Clarke is his offensive ability. If he were well rounded AND possessed the offensive abilities that he does then he'd be insanely valuable. But he's not that well rounded. The biggest knock against him is quickness, which can be a really big deal if the prospect doesn't overcome that. I get Rundblad concerns with Clarke.
I'd prefer him over the '23 1st but he's not untouchable until he shows he can defend at an NHL pace. The second he does that he'll be worth his weight in gold.
I'd prefer him over the '23 1st but he's not untouchable until he shows he can defend at an NHL pace. The second he does that he'll be worth his weight in gold.
Vinny Boombatz
formerly ctwin22
Chances are small that Clarke puts up offensive numbers that Chychrun does...people always over value prospects over bona-fide NHLers and in the case of Chychrun, there is no way Clarke approaches to be the goal-scoring threat Chychrun is. He may put up loads of assists, but he's not going to be a goal scoring machine like Chychrun.
TheLegend
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RABBIT
wasn’t gonna be a fan but Utalked me into it
TheLegend
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RABBIT
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rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
i love the panic in the fans of the teams rumored to be involved. The adamant denials that they will not even consider such a package to be calling it a steal within an hour of the actual transaction will never not be hilarious to me.
in the same interview he indicated that AZ turned down an offer of Vilardi and a 1st over the summer.
tucknroll
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- Feb 13, 2015
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If a trade to LA is what happens then I just don't see a good or realistic offer that doesn't involve Clarke. Especially if Petterson is involved.
-The only true requirement in a Chych trade is a 23' first (likely 20-27 range with LA)
-A first next year is nice, but if the pick is 20-30 again then its not necessary because the montreal and arizona seconds will both be very early.
- Chych should not be traded for quantity and getting two firsts (20-30) and a player like Durzi (IMO Durzi is their best player people likely view as "available") is without a doubt quantity instead of quality when you're trading a player like Chych. If picks are the main piece coming back... wait for the draft to trade him, then you know what pick you're getting at least.
Hoping to hear something big get leaked soon, but I will likely really dislike any trade with LA that doesn't involve Clarke
-The only true requirement in a Chych trade is a 23' first (likely 20-27 range with LA)
-A first next year is nice, but if the pick is 20-30 again then its not necessary because the montreal and arizona seconds will both be very early.
- Chych should not be traded for quantity and getting two firsts (20-30) and a player like Durzi (IMO Durzi is their best player people likely view as "available") is without a doubt quantity instead of quality when you're trading a player like Chych. If picks are the main piece coming back... wait for the draft to trade him, then you know what pick you're getting at least.
Hoping to hear something big get leaked soon, but I will likely really dislike any trade with LA that doesn't involve Clarke
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Kaliyev could make it good. Especially if there’s also a 1st and like maybe Grans?
Matias Maccete
Chopping up defenses
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I want picks. If we're taking back Peterson and sending Veggie I want 2 firsts 2 2nds and Turcotte. I know that sounds insane but that's lots of value coming from us and taking back a terrible contract.
So Chychrun played 30 minutes against the 'Hawks and then took the next night off on the pretense of a trade. I think BA and JC are punking you! They let Jacob take the night off to get refreshments for the super bowl party as well as helping the tank without it looking too obvious.
tucknroll
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Still doesn't have the quality for me. I've always liked Kaliyev for what he's good at all the way back to when he started junior. His shot is as heavy as they come. The rest of his game is just solid though and he doesn't carry play as much as he's a designated finisher. Personally I like Durzi just as much maybe even more. Grans is the least important part of the trade and throwing him in is essentially saying heres a future bottom 4 D that neither team really needs.
Chych is a top pairing defenceman with tremendous leadership. Anyone who knows hockey to a half decent degree can see this. Health has been a concern but they REALLY took their time bringing him back this year and he seems to be doing great. He has even taken out a lot of the young fast pace recklessness from of his game that likely caused a few of the injuries, just like Taylor Hall had to early in his career. I don't mind holding him till the draft when the pick thats likely available for him is closer to 10 than it is to 25
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Seems I wasn’t the only one who panicked when he played 30min in his last game. Sounds like “Billy” was concerned too.
mouser
Business of Hockey
Petersen will have $11.25M in cash remaining at the deadline. If LA retains 23% that brings the cash down to $8.66M total. If we divide that by 2.25 seasons that brings us to AZ paying Petersen $3.85m in cash per season.
To figure out how much negative value Petersen has we need to come up with an estimate of how much he's worth. If Petersen were say a UFA this summer how much would he get on the market? Perhaps $1.5M to $2M backup money?
If we use $1.5M times 2.25 seasons that's $3.375M. The gap between Petersen's actual cash owed and that is $5.2875M ($8.66M - $3.375M).
If we use $2M times 2.25 seasons that's $4.16M and a gap of $4.5M.
The market rate for dead cash is roughly $4M to $5M for a 1st round pick. If you agree $1.5M to $2M is a fair estimate for Petersen's UFA market value, then even with retention he's worth a negative 1st round pick. If you think the actual value should be higher or lower than adjust the negative value higher or lower likewise.
If LA was trying to move Petersen without any retention we're getting closer to two negative 1sts of value, probably a little less, perhaps 1st + two 2nds.
PainForShane
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Third point for Frank's argument (which weirdly enough he didn't mention) -- retaining on Chych means literally any team in the league could be a buyer. Chych at 50% would be 2.3m, literally any team would be able to fit him in.
Cup contending TB paid 2 1sts for Hagel. Would cup contending COL give us 3 firsts? Who knows but now at least they can be bidders
bmr
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Kings fan here: we really don't know the level of impact that Clarke will have in the NHL, but I think he's given every indication that he will be a significantly impactful player. He's already got 10 goals and 16 assists in 15 games with Barrie and he proved that he can play w/ grown men when he was in the Slovak league during the Covid lockout.
I'll tell you this - there are many Kings fans who would be extremely upset if Clarke is included in any trade. I know you have to give to get, but that would be a very tough pill to swallow. If you guys are willing to part with Chychrun and Vejmelka, there will have to be a pretty sizable haul for that.
I'm going to predict a Vilardi, 1st, and another prospect (one of Spence, Grans, or Laferriere) package.
mouser
Business of Hockey
I'll post the same reply:
The challenge with retaining on Chychrun is it locks up a retention slots through 2025. When the Coyotes already have one of their three slots locked up through 2027 on OEL. Salary retention slots are opportunities, especially for a tanking/rebuilding team at the deadline. Every less slot AZ has if retaining on Chychrun is one less potential retention deal in 2023, 2024, 2025.
If AZ is willing to retain on Chychrun it should either be go big or go home. 50% or zero. When you start dialing down the retention % lower you're netting less return for the retention while still having that slot locked up in 2023, 2024 and 2025, opportunity lost.
50% on Chychrun would be $6.7M in real cash. Factor in the three years of locked up room and that retention alone should be worth at least a 1st + 2nd round pick. That's all on top of the actual trade price for Chychrun without retention.
Vinny Boombatz
formerly ctwin22
I do know that Clarke isn't even in the same realm as Chychrun w/regards to skating, as we've already had our fair share of prospects who weren't great skaters and it never turns out well.
I always thought that Kings wouldn't put Clarke or Byfield on the table, and if the asking price has always been two 1sts and one 2nd...I really wouldn't consider Spence/Turcotte/Grans equivalent 1sts, because if you tried to trade any of those 3 for a 1st rounder no one would take it. So lets just say that the 2nd equivalent is one of Spence/Turcotte/Grans, then the '23 1st is included, what makes up the other equivalent 1st rounder?
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