Rumor: Chychrun Megathread (Asking price has been met per Sportsnet)

[rt]

If I recall, there was a trade thread for him and Ducks fans were not at all interested in moving him. I'd be totally happy with that deal.

Wondering if I’d do it without Comtois? It’s a 1st in the teens, Zellweger, and Dostal. If I somehow knew I could get Cutter Gauthier with that pick, and Nemec with our own, I’d probably do it.

Wondering about the 1st, Perrault, and Zellweger, too. Not sure I’d definitely need Comtois. I hate that I’m saying it. Likely just feeling pessimistic, at the moment.

I like the idea of having Nemec on one pair and Zellweger on another. Moser and Soderstrom are the sort of solid types to maybe pair with them. And I like the idea of having a sniper like Guenther on one line and a sniper like Perreault on another line.

I don’t love Chcyhrun for Perrault, Zellweger and the ‘22 1sr. But I like it a heckuva lot better than Tippett, Knight, and the ‘23 1st.

Thing is that the Ducks can afford to lose Perreault, Zellweger and the 1st for Chychrun and it makes sense for them. Not sure it makes sense for us. But if we MUST trade Chcyhrun, at least I could actually be excited about all three of those pieces.

Trade Kessel and call-up Perreault and there’s your young roster player. Zellweger is the top prospect. And the 1st is the 1st. It matches the criteria pretty well.

I wonder if BA sees Doan and Maccelli on the RW beyond Guenther and all these picks and maybe prefers Dostal to Perreault, though. I like that a lot less. I don’t like giving up value like that for goalies.

 

[YotesFan47]

Wondering if I’d do it without Comtois? It’s a 1st in the teens, Zellweger, and Dostal. If I somehow knew I could get Cutter Gauthier with that pick, and Nemec with our own, I’d probably do it.

Wondering about the 1st, Perrault, and Zellweger, too. Not sure I’d definitely need Comtois. I hate that I’m saying it. Likely just feeling pessimistic, at the moment.

I like the idea of having Nemec on one pair and Zellweger on another. Moser and Soderstrom are the sort of solid types to maybe pair with them. And I like the idea of having a sniper like Guenther on one line and a sniper like Perreault on another line.

I don’t love Chcyhrun for Perrault, Zellweger and the ‘22 1sr. But I like it a heckuva lot better than Tippett, Knight, and the ‘23 1st.

Thing is that the Ducks can afford to lose Perreault, Zellweger and the 1st for Chychrun and it makes sense for them. Not sure it makes sense for us. But if we MUST trade Chcyhrun, at least I could actually be excited about all three of those pieces.

Trade Kessel and call-up Perreault and there’s your young roster player. Zellweger is the top prospect. And the 1st is the 1st. It matches the criteria pretty well.

I wonder if BA sees Doan and Maccelli on the RW beyond Guenther and all these picks and maybe prefers Dostal to Perreault, though. I like that a lot less. I don’t like giving up value like that for goalies.

Oh hush now, we want Comtois haha. Do you think Perreault is that ready? I figured he'd need another year after this in the A.

 

[Jakey53]

Chychrun is overrated, BIG TIME!

Injuries might cause early retirement, can't hit the net, and seems like a total passenger because he can't make a damn thing happen on his own. He's no stud!

And last season could be a fluke too.

Edit: I'm done making excuses for him. He's been just a tad bit above useless this season. I'll give him credit for filling a roster spot and some cap.

I think you are over reacting a bit. Last year Chych had Gogo who was a great partner for him, and OEL taking tough minutes. Chych is still young and very good, but he isn't the all mighty as some seem to think he is.

 

[LGB]

The Blues badly need someone who can play top pairing minutes with Parayko. Chychrun would really be the perfect acquisition with his very modest cap hit and being similar in age to Thomas and Kyrou. It seems like he has really been underperforming this year though. Why do you guys think that is?

If he can rebound with us I'd have no problem paying up for him.

 

[cobra427]

The Blues badly need someone who can play top pairing minutes with Parayko. Chychrun would really be the perfect acquisition with his very modest cap hit and being similar in age to Thomas and Kyrou. It seems like he has really been underperforming this year though. Why do you guys think that is?

If he can rebound with us I'd have no problem paying up for him.

Top pairing minutes, tougher D assignments, and a D partner in Bush(third pairing) versus Goligoski last year who complimented Chych better. On D he isn't good enough yet to be top pairing, he needs another year or two as a 3/4D on D. His scoring will pick back up but maybe not get to 19 goals a year, i think he is a 35-40 point D man.

 

[rt]

Top pairing minutes, tougher D assignments, and a D partner in Bush(third pairing) versus Goligoski last year who complimented Chych better. On D he isn't good enough yet to be top pairing, he needs another year or two as a 3/4D on D. His scoring will pick back up but maybe not get to 19 goals a year, i think he is a 35-40 point D man.

I think you’re reading way too much into this season. I completely disagree with your prognosis.

 

[rt]

The Blues badly need someone who can play top pairing minutes with Parayko. Chychrun would really be the perfect acquisition with his very modest cap hit and being similar in age to Thomas and Kyrou. It seems like he has really been underperforming this year though. Why do you guys think that is?

If he can rebound with us I'd have no problem paying up for him.

If he gets traded to the Blues, he’ll finish top ten for the Norris again during his current deal.

 

[Boxscore]

he needs another year or two as a 3/4D on D. His scoring will pick back up but maybe not get to 19 goals a year, i think he is a 35-40 point D man.

If you are correct, then the return for him will not be close to what some expect. In order for Chychrun to warrant an elite package, teams need to fully believe he can be a steady, top-pairing D who can QB a PP and score 15G and 50+ points (think Dougie Hamilton). A 3/4 D, playing PP2 and getting 35 points a year isn't going to cut it.

I loved Chychrun last year and still like him as a player. I'm just concerned by the massive drop-off. Even if his "defensive game" struggled a little due to altered assignments, where on earth did his offense go? The Yotes reacclimated Ghost -- who was a cast-off in Philly -- and he was able to come in an take over the offensive role from Chychrun? This is concerning.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I think you are over reacting a bit. Last year Chych had Gogo who was a great partner for him, and OEL taking tough minutes. Chych is still young and very good, but he isn't the all mighty as some seem to think he is.

Yeah I'm pissed. He has as many points as Ladd. If he can't handle the hard minutes than he's a complimentary player, not a stud player on a great contract. He shouldn't be THAT easy to render useless by opposing teams.

When the going gets tough, Chycrun disappears. He isn't good at anything this season. Nothing!

 

[YotesFan47]

Chychrun is overrated, BIG TIME!

Injuries might cause early retirement, can't hit the net, and seems like a total passenger because he can't make a damn thing happen on his own. He's no stud!

And last season could be a fluke too.

Edit: I'm done making excuses for him. He's been just a tad bit above useless this season. I'll give him credit for filling a roster spot and some cap.

He's fine. I know we're all freaking out because his season has sucked and he's sucking, but he won't be the first, or last player in the league to have an abnormally bad season in their career.

Let's all settle down and remember Chychrun is 23. It took me to like 27 to stop having kid brain. Let's let him finish growing mentally before we crucify him.

I still believe he's a 1st pairing guy. He broke through to top pair last season and he'll be back next year.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I remember someone posted the missed shots summary with Chychrun like 5th on the list or something...but what they failed to see was the company he kept...the players on that list I believe are the following:

1 - Ovechkin
2 - Pastrnak
3 - Meier
4 - Chychrun
5 - Tkachuk
6 - Kaprisov
7 - Aho
8 - Matthews
9 - Hedman

What this tells me is that our boy Chychrun is able to create shooting chances, even if he is shooting them wide. This tells me he's elite and should be treated as such. You want players that are capable of generating shots...even if he misses the most wide, he's still generating tons of chances, which is what you want, because I'd take all the players on this list on my team.

 

[LGB]

Top pairing minutes, tougher D assignments, and a D partner in Bush(third pairing) versus Goligoski last year who complimented Chych better. On D he isn't good enough yet to be top pairing, he needs another year or two as a 3/4D on D. His scoring will pick back up but maybe not get to 19 goals a year, i think he is a 35-40 point D man.

If that is the case that would definitely be a problem. Parayko gets really heavy defensive usage. I don't think his partner needs to be a defensive stud though just a solid defender. I'm not expecting him to score 18 goals especially since I'd assume Krug would still be our point man on the first PP unit. The Blues do encourage defenseman to join the rush though so I think he'd fit well there.

I think you’re reading way too much into this season. I completely disagree with your prognosis.

Why do you think he's struggled?

If he gets traded to the Blues, he’ll finish top ten for the Norris again during his current deal.

That would be nice

 

[PainForShane]

If you are correct, then the return for him will not be close to what some expect. In order for Chychrun to warrant an elite package, teams need to fully believe he can be a steady, top-pairing D who can QB a PP and score 15G and 50+ points (think Dougie Hamilton). A 3/4 D, playing PP2 and getting 35 points a year isn't going to cut it.

I loved Chychrun last year and still like him as a player. I'm just concerned by the massive drop-off. Even if his "defensive game" struggled a little due to altered assignments, where on earth did his offense go? The Yotes reacclimated Ghost -- who was a cast-off in Philly -- and he was able to come in an take over the offensive role from Chychrun? This is concerning.

He will be able to do all that on a good team with a decent D partner. Chych was excellent last year while paired with Gogo (2nd pair D), imo his current partner Bush shouldn't even be in the league as he is so bad positionally in his own zone. My guess is our coach is sticking Chych with him because this basically balances out the pairs and keeps Bush from being a complete liability defensively.

Also, imo your Dougie Hamilton analogy isn't the most accurate, Dougie Hamilton is an offensive / PP specialist who has elite offensive vision but is weak in his own zone, Chych is a 200 ft defenseman (at least he was last year) with a good shot. They're not similar types of players and never will be.

Either way I think we are missing the point. The biggest reason Chych should fetch an amazing return isn't because he's the best young defenseman in the world (he isn't, see Makar / Fox), but he is, by far, the best non-ELC defenseman in the league making under 5m per season and will be for years.

In theory this means that every team (including contenders who have no cap space) should be interested which should then drive Chych's value way up. When you take his contract into account, there is literally only one player like Chychrun in the entire league.

So imo if the trade value is not there now, we can wait. My personal guess is this deal gets done in the offseason after one (or more) teams' lack of a top 4 gets exposed in the playoffs

 

[rt]

ANA: Perreault, Zellweger, 1st
BOS: Swayman, Lysell, 1st
CBJ: Ceulemans, Foudy, 1st
FLA: Knight, Samoskevich, 1st
LAK: Turcotte, Grans/Faber, 1st
NYR: Schneider, Zac Jones, 1st
STL: Neighbors, Perunovich, 1st

 

[Kai Yo T]

I think you’re reading way too much into this season. I completely disagree with your prognosis.

I think a lot of us are reading way too much into last season too though.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Oh hush now, we want Comtois haha. Do you think Perreault is that ready? I figured he'd need another year after this in the A.

I think perreault is best finishing off in AHL , but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to predict him in the nhl next year… he has a great tool kit, lot of nhl ready attributes.

Zellweger is prob 2 years out… give him time to grow/fill out and become better in all aspects of the game, he’s also a very young 2021 draft pick.

zellweger + our 1st is like getting 2 firsts from this draft

 

[PainForShane]

I think a lot of us are reading way too much into last season too though.

And a lot of us are reading too much into this season too. shrug

 

[SniperHF]

I remember someone posted the missed shots summary with Chychrun like 5th on the list or something...but what they failed to see was the company he kept...the players on that list I believe are the following:

1 - Ovechkin
2 - Pastrnak
3 - Meier
4 - Chychrun
5 - Tkachuk
6 - Kaprisov
7 - Aho
8 - Matthews
9 - Hedman

What this tells me is that our boy Chychrun is able to create shooting chances, even if he is shooting them wide. This tells me he's elite and should be treated as such. You want players that are capable of generating shots...even if he misses the most wide, he's still generating tons of chances, which is what you want, because I'd take all the players on this list on my team.

I think that was me in the GDT.

I mostly posted it cause it was funny

But IMO what you're really seeing is a few factors:
1. Chychrun is in theory our best point trigger man so he gets the opportunities.
2. Chychrun is missing MORE of his shot attempts as a ratio compared to other comparable players.


If you look at his shot attempts he's ranked 295th in unblocked shot attempts.
On NSS as a rate he's 252nd, which accounts for his missed games.

It reminds me to a lesser extend as to what Max Domi did here his last couple seasons. In theory on ice he was in the action and making things happen but he was also screwing up a lot of the chances he was getting. Will he revert back to normal? I think probably so.

Going to what Kai Yo T is saying though, what's normal? IMO it's certainly not what he did this season, and at least for the moment it's not what he did last. Is it more like his 19-20 season? Nothing to sneeze at, probably in that top 45 D in the league range, but also not elite of the elite.

 

[rt]

I think a lot of us are reading way too much into last season too though.

I don’t see it that way at all. He was on a clear trajectory. Last season didn’t come out of nowhere. He was clearly building toward it. All evidence suggests that this season is the outlier and not last season. Until this season, he’s done nothing but shatter expectations and grow and improve dramatically, season after season. That didn’t just magically stop. He’s going to return to that path when he gets some stability and is playing for an NHL team again. He was always destined to do what he did last year.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I don’t see it that way at all. He was on a clear trajectory. Last season didn’t come out of nowhere. He was clearly building toward it. All evidence suggests that this season is the outlier and not last season. Until this season, he’s done nothing but shatter expectations and grow and improve dramatically, season after season. That didn’t just magically stop. He’s going to return to that path when he gets some stability and is playing for an NHL team again. He was always destined to do what he did last year.

Are we excluding this season for his trajectory? Does it not count in that equation rt? It just seems that there's a lot of weight being put on last season and not really much on this season.

Personally, I thought jumping from 26 points in 63 games to 41 points in 56 games did come out of nowhere.

Just as surprising as dropping all the way down to 9 points in 33 games with not so great defense is for me.

Good players do have bad seasons, but this level of bad along with this huge of a drop off in ebery aspect of his game is concerning. All of a sudden he's not a sure thing anymore in my mind.

 

[YotesFan47]

I think perreault is best finishing off in AHL , but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to predict him in the nhl next year… he has a great tool kit, lot of nhl ready attributes.

Zellweger is prob 2 years out… give him time to grow/fill out and become better in all aspects of the game, he’s also a very young 2021 draft pick.

zellweger + our 1st is like getting 2 firsts from this draft

My understanding is Zellweger is a much better prospect than I had thought and has made a case for being a 1st rounder in a redraft.

I'm not really informed on most of Anaheim's prospects, outside of McT.

 

[SniperHF]

Personally, I thought jumping from 26 points in 63 games to 41 points in 56 games did come out of nowhere.

I dunno, maybe a little faster than expected but I think out of nowhere is a bit much. Any player that advances is likely to have a production jump in a year at some point. It's pretty rare someone evenly goes like .4 ppg to .5ppg to . 6 etc etc.

 

[Perratrooper]

This I would likely do. I don’t like Kaut at all, though. Is there a different piece you rate about the same or even a little less that you’d sub.

Barron+2023 second get it done for Crouse?

 

[Kai Yo T]

I dunno, maybe a little faster than expected but I think out of nowhere is a bit much. Any player that advances is likely to have a production jump in a year at some point. It's pretty rare someone evenly goes like .4 ppg to .5ppg to . 6 etc etc.

I keep hearing that all the credit goes to his linemates last season lol

 

[Kai Yo T]

I'm a little salty today lol. Please just know that my conversations aren't meant to sound disrespectful to anyone.