Value of: Chris Kreider

[Ignite111]

I think the Rangers would ask for Dobson and Wahlstrom.

I wouldn't do both. A little too much

 

[Shootertooter]

I wouldn't do both. A little too much

It is a significant ask. I'm assuming Kreider becomes Barzal's wing. That said, he is a known commodity.
I like both of those Isles picks when they took them, that said, neither is a sure thing. There is risk involved. There is also trading a guy like Kreider to your rival. Maybe the trade is not realistic in the sense that it could never happen but I think the value is relatively close for what is at stake.

 

[WeRa]

I wouldn't do both. A little too much

Yes it is... but IMO in case of trading such a player to our rival the price will be higher.

 

[Ignite111]

Yes it is... but IMO in case of trading such a player to our rival the price will be higher.

Fair

 

[Ignite111]

It is a significant ask. I'm assuming Kreider becomes Barzal's wing. That said, he is a known commodity.
I like both of those Isles picks when they took them, that said, neither is a sure thing. There is risk involved. There is also trading a guy like Kreider to your rival. Maybe the trade is not realistic in the sense that it could never happen but I think the value is relatively close for what is at stake.

Agreed. I don't think it would ever happen, but if adjusted correctly could really help both teams needs / wants

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

No way the Isles and Rags are trading partners. And WAYY too much to give up for Kreider.

 

[One Winged Angel]

No way the Isles and Rags are trading partners. And WAYY too much to give up for Kreider.

If they want Kreider, they’ll have to. It’s the price of the rivalry.

The last major trade they worked on was Ziggy Palffy to the Rangers 20 years ago and that involved cash and TV rights and was nixed by Bettman.

 

[bernmeister]

Fair enough. I think Foote does have some very nice potential but his development has been slower than we’d hoped for so he may not reach that potential for a while (or at all.) If people are comparing him to McAvoy they’re way off base.

As far as Kreider to Tampa is concerned the issue there is twofold. First, because of our impending cap crunch and the fact that we greatly weakened our system in the trade for McDonagh, we’re in a position where we really can’t afford to be giving up high draft picks and top prospects for short term acquisitions at positions of strength - we’ll need those to replace our expensive complementary players as they become cap casualties, to use as incentive if needed to move cap dumps, and/or to package for long term upgrades at positions of need. The second issue is that we’re already having to shed cap dollars to resign our RFAs this summer so we can’t add Kreider without another big contract going out in addition to the ones that will already be leaving.

An idea I’ve floated before is that if we’re looking for a trade to mix things up, we could consider trading Gourde for a better or at least different sort of player with less term - the idea being that we would upgrade or at least change things around in the short term while gaining cap flexibility in the longer term. I don’t know if we really want to be messing with our lineup at this point considering how well we’ve been playing, and Gourde has proven himself to be an effective member of our team and was just signed to an extension, but Kreider would add some much needed size to our forward corps and in a couple of years we could choose between trying to resign him or letting him walk if necessary to afford all our RFAs. Not saying it’s a move we would make, as we’d be giving up a good deal of term and risking the chemistry our team has developed, but it’s about the only sort of deal for Kreider that follows the organizational principle of only making trades that benefit us both now and going forward.

I mentioned the idea in another thread about Kreider and was told by one Rangers fan that he thought you would rather take futures or at least a younger established player for Kreider, which I certainly understand. So if we decided that Kreider was somebody we wanted to pursue and that we were willing to give up Gourde to get him, perhaps getting another team involved to take Gourde and send futures your way could work. But barring that I just don’t see a deal for Kreider that would work for both sides, as we need the same sort of pieces to extend our window that you want for your rebuild.

Largely concur, and I again see Zuc, not Kreider, as your immediate option.

While I have you, pls tell us more about Gourde.

 

[Kupo]

No way the Isles and Rags are trading partners. And WAYY too much to give up for Kreider.

Rangers made a swap with NJ last year. Gorton will trade with any team.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

Rangers made a swap with NJ last year. Gorton will trade with any team.

Yeah, but will Lou trade with the Rangers?

 

[One Winged Angel]

Yeah, but will Lou trade with the Rangers?

That’s the question. If he wants Kreider, he’ll have to pay.

I’d take that 1st, Dobson and Ho-Sang deal. I love Dobson and Ho-Sang screams to me that he wants out of that organization and the vibe I get is that he would be super motivated to stick it to the Islanders.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

That’s the question. If he wants Kreider, he’ll have to pay.

I’d take that 1st, Dobson and Ho-Sang deal. I love Dobson and Ho-Sang screams to me that he wants out of that organization and the vibe I get is that he would be super motivated to stick it to the Islanders.

I doubt LL has his sights on Kreider. I also doubt he trades with the Rags.
You guys keep him, and keep telling everyone he is worth Gretzky plus.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I doubt LL has his sights on Kreider. I also doubt he trades with the Rags.

I agree.

You guys keep him, and keep telling everyone he is worth Gretzky plus.

Hyperbole is fun, but that wasn’t me that came up with that, that was an islanders fan who offered it.

 

[AndreRoy]

Largely concur, and I again see Zuc, not Kreider, as your immediate option.

While I have you, pls tell us more about Gourde.

Gourde is one of those guys who certainly has talent, but who has gotten as far as he has because he quite simply works harder than anyone else on the team. He can play all three forward positions; he’s a fine center but we’ve been using him mostly on the wing because we’re loaded at center and wanted to be able to play him in our top six. He plays a 200-foot game, can be trusted in all situations, and can be effective on either a scoring line or a shutdown defensive line. He’s not a big guy but plays as if he was, always willing to deliver hits and fight for pucks in the corner, consistently being the first guy to jump into a scrum and stand up for his teammates, and scoring the vast majority of his goals by crashing the net for rebounds and cross-crease passes.

On a less positive note he’s not the sort of player who will drive offense on his line, nor is he a sniper who will fire a lot of one-timers from long range. Because of this his offense is dependent somewhat on his linemates - they don’t have to be elite playmakers but they do have to be willing and able to shoot the puck and give Gourde the opportunity to cash in on rebounds, and to look for him when he’s crashing the net.

In short he’s pretty much an ideal complementary forward and a great teammate, but not necessarily someone you build around as one of your primary pieces. Honestly I’d really prefer not to trade him, but the emergence of Cernak as someone we definitely want to keep around long term has complicated our cap situation in a year when we’ll already need to extend Vasy and Sergachev (Cirelli and Joseph will also be up for new contracts at that time but at present neither would be a priority over keeping Gourde.) We can make it all fit if we’re able to trade Killorn at that point and/or if enough of our guys are willing to sacrifice a bit of salary to keep the band together, but if not we might lose somebody we want to lose even less than Yanni. So as much as I like Gourde and would prefer to keep him around, swapping him for somebody like Kreider would give us more cap flexibility in a couple of years without weakening us in the short term.

As far as Zuc is concerned he honestly doesn’t interest me. He’s a fine player but too similar to a lot of the guys we already have and while things may change under BriseBois we don’t have a history of paying for rentals. Kreider would be interesting both because of his size and because of the extra year of term. But I can certainly understand if you’d prefer to keep him and try to resign him barring a massive overpayment; I just don’t see us as a team that would make such an overpayment.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Hyperbole is fun, but that wasn’t me that came up with that, that was an islanders fan who offered it.

After reading the various Kreider threads, it becomes obvious that age and previous stats give zero indication of what this player is on the cusp of morphing into.
Adam to Eve:
Stand back, I am not sure how big this thing is going to get.

 

[One Winged Angel]

After reading the various Kreider threads, it becomes obvious that age and previous stats give zero indication of what this player is on the cusp of morphing into.
Adam to Eve:
Stand back, I am not sure how big this thing is going to get.

I can tell you that I don’t know what his or any players value will be. I can tell you what I THINK would be good or bad, I’m not a GM. Many people on here forget that they’re not and like to speak in absolutes.

I will say that the rangers have zero incentive to trade Kreider. He’s still in prime age where he can help the team going forward and has turned a corner, having figured out how to be one of the best net-front presences in the NHL. Before this, I was very wary of giving him a new deal, but with the way he’s played and the leadership role he’s taken, signs point to keeping him.

So with all of that said, I do not see Gorton moving him barring a massive overpayment. Keep in mind that I’m not saying that he’s necessarily worth that, I’m not sure as to what his actual worth is, while also taking note of the fact that if the Rangers and Islanders were to make a deal, most would believe that Gorton would make the islanders pay through the nose to acquire Kreider.

Also, the deal I listed was posted by an Islander fan. Other Ranger fans said Wahlstrom and Dobson, which I agree would be too much, even for a crosstown rivalry deal. That’s why I think the first rounder, one of Wahlstrom or Dobson (preferably Dobson) and Ho-Sang would be a good deal.

You don’t have to agree and I don’t expect you to. I’d just have a hard time believing that Gorton would make a deal for a core piece of his team that has term left at a very reasonable price with the team’s biggest rival for anything less than a King’s ransom.

 

[wintersej]

Sorry to have been imprecise here.
As I have said elsewhere, it would be a package of Kreider and a larger plus for McAvoy and a smaller +.
Not a 1:1.

If the additions are Zibby and Backes I still say no.

 

[bernmeister]

If the additions are Zibby and Backes I still say no.

To each their own.
Tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide.
And if ya wanna rate McAvoy as the return of Bobby Orr, so be it.

 

[One Winged Angel]

If the additions are Zibby and Backes I still say no.

Zibanejad is a point per game center right now with 3 years left after this season at under 6 million.

Don’t be ridiculous.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

To each their own.
Tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide.
And if ya wanna rate McAvoy as the return of Bobby Orr, so be it.

Its hilarious when someone disagrees with you and you resort to attacking their valuation of the player you covet

 

[McSuper]

As an Oiler fan I would love to have him . There are a few problems . 1) Cap space 2) His contract is only 1 year after this one . I know we will get you can resign him . But you have to ask yourself with the gong show in Edmonton would you resign ? The attraction of playing with McDavid has all but gone after Chia completely gut the team .

 

[bernmeister]

As an Oiler fan I would love to have him . There are a few problems . 1) Cap space 2) His contract is only 1 year after this one . I know we will get you can resign him . But you have to ask yourself with the gong show in Edmonton would you resign ? The attraction of playing with McDavid has all but gone after Chia completely gut the team .

a reasonable concern
If he is a UFA he can go anywhere, and McD is a solid attraction.
But so is MacKinnon on a team further along.

Rangers should try and lock him up, deal Zib, Zuc and Hayes +

 

[wintersej]

Zibanejad is a point per game center right now with 3 years left after this season at under 6 million.

Don’t be ridiculous.

He is a #2C on a contender. McAvoy is the best D at 21 on a team 1 point away from the 2nd best record in the NHL.

 

[One Winged Angel]

He is a #2C on a contender. McAvoy is the best D at 21 on a team 1 point away from the 2nd best record in the NHL.

He’s a point per game center. It doesn’t matter if he’d play #2 center in Pittsburgh, Dallas or where ever. On the vast majority of teams, he’s a #1 center at 25 years old and is making less than 6 million a year for the next 3 seasons after this season.

Stop trying to contort things, your statement was just as ridiculous as bernmeister’s.

 

[bernmeister]

He is a #2C on a contender. McAvoy is the best D at 21 on a team 1 point away from the 2nd best record in the NHL.

False, gotta call you out.
He is 2C only on a team with an elite 1C
he is otherwise 1C material league wide