Prospect Info: CHL, NCAA and European 2018-19 Prospects Thread

[Devilswede]

It's one guy's list. It should really be taken with a grain of salt.

And I'm a guy who's wary of grading prospects. Every team's fanbase think their prospects are the best, and we've been fooled too many times and been burned just as many.

I will not hype any prospect unless they make the team in New Jersey and start delivering. Before that I don't care what they do, it doesn't count unless they make it in the NHL.

So people can rank prospects and teams where they want. It doesn't mean anything. It's just opinions and not facts.

It's just like you can't grade a draft until several years later. When you have the results in your hand. It's the same with prospects.

 

[Lou is God]

It's one guy's list. It should really be taken with a grain of salt.

And I'm a guy who's wary of grading prospects. Every team's fanbase think their prospects are the best, and we've been fooled too many times and been burned just as many.

I will not hype any prospect unless they make the team in New Jersey and start delivering. Before that I don't care what they do, it doesn't count unless they make it in the NHL.

So people can rank prospects and teams where they want. It doesn't mean anything. It's just opinions and not facts.

It's just like you can't grade a draft until several years later. When you have the results in your hand. It's the same with prospects.

I think the draw of grading prospects is hope. People want to be encouraged by what is coming down the pipeline and know their teams future is promising. I think most people learn over time that while your pool might grade well, it don't mean shit like you say. I mean for instance how many of us 5 years ago thought we would have a stellar defense of Larsson, Merrill, Gelinas, Santini and Severson by now?

 

[Nubmer6]

Especially with Pronman because he values goalies a lot. At least I think he is the one who does.

I don’t agree with that spot, and not even being able to properly evaluate one of our better prospects hurts the credibility of them, but it’s whatever.

Having so many players graduate at once hurts the top end depth no matter who you are.

He didn't for these rankings.

I value goalie prospects very conservatively. In the past 10 years or so, I’ve only rated one goalie who I thought would be a top-tier player (Andrei Vasilevskiy) and only a handful who I’d project to be a starting goalie in the NHL.

 

[My3Sons]

Being a good defenseman requires a totally different skillset than being a good forward and that's why you seldom see players switch during their careers. So yeah, Greene has no standout physical skills, but he's a very smart player, he makes good reads, his gap control used to be solid, and he can pass the puck.

Brains, compete, shot - all great qualities, but to me if a forward has trouble finding an open guy in the offensive zone, and/or defaults to shooting the puck, that's usually going to limit that forward's ceiling. I don't agree with where Talvitie ended up on his rankings, but I don't think he's a high-upside prospect. We'll have a much clearer picture of what he can be after this coming season.

I’m not suggesting he’s a high end prospect by any means. I’d think a ceiling as an NHL third liner with the hope he can settle in on the fourth line someday isn’t out of the question. Considering where he was picked he’d prove a lot of folks wrong just by playing more than a handful of NHL games and being an AHL contributor.

 

[Lou is God]

He didn't for these rankings.

Then it stands to reason if he did he might have us 22-25. Blackwood is the only decent goalie prospect we have and he's Jekyll and Hyde.

One thing we found out today, his rankings are a bit flawed, he admitted he didn't give any feedback on Seney because he's never watched him and also Seney wasn't factored in. Which in itself isn't a big deal because Seney is a nice prospect, we're not talking about a blue Chip here. But who else is he omitting or just not really scouting out.

He did make one comment that caught my attention when he called Wood a decent player, 22-year-olds who have the size and speed he has and coming off a 19 goal season, they're more than decent in my book. But I'm a generous guy.

 

[Emperoreddy]

That sounds like someone who didn’t watch Wood play and is just looking at the numbers. Especially comparing his growth from the previous year.

 

[Lou is God]

That sounds like someone who didn’t watch Wood play and is just looking at the numbers. Especially comparing his growth from the previous year.

Wood creates havic and confusion on the ice for the opponent, can not stress enough how much of an impact players like that can have

 

[Devils Dominion]

Wood is a key element to our potential success

 

[Triumph]

I’m not suggesting he’s a high end prospect by any means. I’d think a ceiling as an NHL third liner with the hope he can settle in on the fourth line someday isn’t out of the question. Considering where he was picked he’d prove a lot of folks wrong just by playing more than a handful of NHL games and being an AHL contributor.

I mean, sure. I just don't think that kind of prospect really changes a whole lot when you're talking about ranking organizations against one another. In general, almost every organization has at least one or two guys at Talvitie's level; they were just probably drafted before the 6th round.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

This team needs Miles, and I think his agent knows that. He absolutely should be a priority.

 

[My3Sons]

I mean, sure. I just don't think that kind of prospect really changes a whole lot when you're talking about ranking organizations against one another. In general, almost every organization has at least one or two guys at Talvitie's level; they were just probably drafted before the 6th round.

Agreed. I’m not suggesting he’s a needle mover. I’m just suggesting that pundit didn’t watch Talvite recently and basing a prospect’s prospects (look at that double meaning usage - John Lennon would be proud) on old viewings is lazy and intellectually dishonest.

 

[Triumph]

Agreed. I’m not suggesting he’s a needle mover. I’m just suggesting that pundit didn’t watch Talvite recently and basing a prospect’s prospects (look at that double meaning usage - John Lennon would be proud) on old viewings is lazy and intellectually dishonest.

I'd be very surprised if he didn't watch any of Finland in the WJSS. It was on TV, it's August so there's nothing at all hockey-wise competing with it - to me, accusing someone of basically lying because they don't agree with you is also intellectually dishonest.

 

[Billdo]

One thing we found out today, his rankings are a bit flawed, he admitted he didn't give any feedback on Seney because he's never watched him and also Seney wasn't factored in. Which in itself isn't a big deal because Seney is a nice prospect, we're not talking about a blue Chip here. But who else is he omitting or just not really scouting out.

Yeah, I like Seney a good amount but most teams have a Seney in their pipeline. I don't think he swings the pendulum one way or another.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I'd be very surprised if he didn't watch any of Finland in the WJSS. It was on TV, it's August so there's nothing at all hockey-wise competing with it - to me, accusing someone of basically lying because they don't agree with you is also intellectually dishonest.

To be honest, his puck skills and speed arent that impressive. He doesnt have thr best offensive hockey IQ either. These are skills Corey values.

 

[Devils Dominion]

There is something about The Finn that tells me he will be a successful NHL 3rd liner

 

[Nubmer6]

There is something about The Finn that tells me he will be a successful NHL 3rd liner

Yeah. The non-stop motor.

 

[My3Sons]

I'd be very surprised if he didn't watch any of Finland in the WJSS. It was on TV, it's August so there's nothing at all hockey-wise competing with it - to me, accusing someone of basically lying because they don't agree with you is also intellectually dishonest.

Hah. Well played but I’’m not that petty. I’m not mad he doesn’t agree with me. Also, my criticism of him is based on him saying he liked him last year but he somehow got worse when he was very good at the WJSS last week? That just smells funny and suggests to me he didn’t watch him closely and based his opinion on older viewings. That said I agree AT’s best skills are not flashy although his shot is pretty good.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Hah. Well played but I’’m not that petty. I’m not mad he doesn’t agree with me. Also, my criticism of him is based on him saying he liked him last year but he somehow got worse when he was very good at the WJSS last week? That just smells funny and suggests to me he didn’t watch him closely and based his opinion on older viewings. That said I agree AT’s best skills are not flashy although his shot is pretty good.

He saw the tourneys that Talvitie, who admitted in recent articles, was terrible and cost him a shot on the WJC team. All we seen was two summer showcases where most players aren't close to 100%.

 

[devilsblood]

Agreed. I’m not suggesting he’s a needle mover. I’m just suggesting that pundit didn’t watch Talvite recently and basing a prospect’s prospects (look at that double meaning usage - John Lennon would be proud) on old viewings is lazy and intellectually dishonest.

I think it's more along the lines of, he watched the games, but didn't watch Talvitie. When we watch those games we focus on our guys so we get a better feel then someone like Pronman would who is trying to watch everybody.

I'm pretty confident in saying I know our prospects at least as well as Pronman does. Now, I'm clueless on the rest of the league, I'm pretty clueless on upcoming draft classes, so he'd roast me in all other regards, but guys already in organization? I think I, as well as a bunch of other guys here, can go toe to toe with the pros.

 

[devilsblood]

Hah. Well played but I’’m not that petty. I’m not mad he doesn’t agree with me. Also, my criticism of him is based on him saying he liked him last year but he somehow got worse when he was very good at the WJSS last week? That just smells funny and suggests to me he didn’t watch him closely and based his opinion on older viewings. That said I agree AT’s best skills are not flashy although his shot is pretty good.

Well last year at this time, Talvitie was still fairly fresh off captaining the Finn's to a Silver medal while posting 4-3-7 in 7 gp at the u-18 WJC. So after not making the U-20's this year, I could see him cooling on Talvitie a bit.

But I think your basic premise of being skeptical is fair. It really is a near impossible task. I'm sure he does a pretty good job considering the undertaking, but he is just not going to have a very good handle of 600 some odd non NHL players.

 

[My3Sons]

Well last year at this time, Talvitie was still fairly fresh off captaining the Finn's to a Silver medal while posting 4-3-7 in 7 gp at the u-18 WJC. So after not making the U-20's this year, I could see him cooling on Talvitie a bit.

But I think your basic premise of being skeptical is fair. It really is a near impossible task. I'm sure he does a pretty good job considering the undertaking, but he is just not going to have a very good handle of 600 some odd non NHL players.

Don’t waste your time commenting on my intellectually dishonest analysis.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Isn’t some of the Talvite hype largely based on some positive comments or am I getting him mixed up with another kid?

 

[Nubmer6]

Isn’t some of the Talvite hype largely based on some positive comments or am I getting him mixed up with another kid?

I think it's based mostly on his WJSS showing. He had a pretty good tournament, and for many of us, it's all we've seen of him in full games.

 

[Missionhockey]

You can't leave out Seney and be serious.

Talvitie will rise too.

Yeah you can. Seney's numbers in college are just okay and eight AHL games don't erase that.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Yeah you can. Seney's numbers in college are just okay and eight AHL games don't erase that.

that really isn't true....115 points in 139 games is actually quite impressive, especially playing on bad teams