Sportsnet: Cherry: Maple Leafs need Orr, McLaren back

[PlietscherDassel]

That's such a waste of development minutes. Why not give those NHL minutes to players who might play on the roster in the next few years.

Its not like those guys play 20 minutes a game. If we really get our wish and trade our UFAs as well as 1-2 other guys (Lupul? Bozak? Maybe even Phaneuf or Kessen even though i think it is unlikely that we trade them before the offseason?) there will be more than enough development minutes. Especially if we bring up more young guys and trade our working bees (Winnik, Santa, Booth) you need to send a message to the team that you still need to put in hard work and be a team guy to play. Orr and McLaren are perfect for that role if you don't need to win games because even though enforces are outdated in todays NHL they are the very well respected by their teammates for sacrificing themselves for the team and working hard. We have lots of players floating around right now. Whats wrong with telling them that they need to work harder than Orr/McLaren if they want to play? Even the young guys. Make them earn their development time. It is not that hard to outplay 2 goons after earning your minutes.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

The Leafs' problem lately hasn't been about being soft or intimitated, or not playing defence. It's about the offence completely drying up for whatever reason. Two guys playing 3 minutes a game with a combined 0 points in 81 total games last year isn't going to help that. And sitting on the bench isn't going to scare opponents away. What a complete myth.

 

[Pyrophorus]

The Leafs' problem lately hasn't been about being soft or intimitated, or not playing defence. It's about the offence completely drying up for whatever reason. Two guys playing 3 minutes a game with a combined 0 points in 81 total games last year isn't going to help that. And sitting on the bench isn't going to scare opponents away. What a complete myth.

I agree 100%
Tougher players who contribute would be good.

In reality Clarkson was supposed to address this. (The Lucic answer)

 

[paulhiggins]

I don't think Cherry was talking about Orr and MacLaren making contributions on the ice, by fighting, scoring or otherwise. I think he was talking about them being on the bench gives the guys on the ice a bit less fear. Like carrying a knife in your pocket or a handgun under your jacket. You might not intend to use it but you might be less inclined to avoid the bad areas.

I wouldn't have both up here though on the 4th line. Maybe one plus a tough D, like Mark Fraser was. (another nice giveaway trade Nonis, BTW)

 

[Pyrophorus]

I wouldn't have both up here though on the 4th line. Maybe one plus a tough D, like Mark Fraser was. (another nice giveaway trade Nonis, BTW)

Really? It was nothing.

 

[LeafsNation75]

This is where Cherry is out of touch with todays NHL. With the exception of San Jose who has John Scott, what other teams have players on their rosters who are only known for fighting and not there for producing offense?

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Two Words: Steve Ott


Why didn't we pursue him? He'd be a perfect pest.

 

[Leaf Warrior]

All you people talking crap know what Cherry is really saying.

The Leafs had balls of steel a few years ago with Orr, Frazer , McLaren and almost took out Boston.

Now they are soft like some of the people here. If Soccer was on Ice, Leafs right now would be in first place.

 

[Pookie]

This is where Cherry is out of touch with todays NHL. With the exception of San Jose who has John Scott, what other teams have players on their rosters who are only known for fighting and not there for producing offense?

I don't see a lot of offense coming from the "middle weights" though either like a Tootoo, Neil, Thorburn, Engelland, Dorsett, Boll, Wilson, Downie…

The key is finding tough players through your roster who are willing to outwork an opponent. In a parity driven NHL, it's rare that you will "out skill" most teams… what's left is out work and we simply aren't there.

Usually those guys drop the mitts a few times.

With visors and fear of retro active lawsuits from players, I don't see fighting going back to the 70's. But just because we are a team of cream puffs, doesn't mean that it's on the menu NHL wide.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Goons died with the no-change icing rule.

Icing used to be their way to run to the bench when the good players showed up. Now it traps them on the ice.

 

[Muston Atthews]

It would make things more entertaining that's for sure

 

[Leaf Rocket]

This guy needs to shut up. I love him but there are moment when he spews utter crap...now would be one of them.

 

[Leaf Army]

Goons died with the no-change icing rule.

Icing used to be their way to run to the bench when the good players showed up. Now it traps them on the ice.

You're right that's probably part of it.

But another huge factor is parity. Look at the Western Conference you've got like eight teams between 55 and 65 points. A couple of bad games and you drop like a rock down the standings. Coaches are too afraid those guys will take a bad penalty at the wrong time.

Look at Minnesota with 56 points. You take a bad penalty, give up a PP goal, lose the game and three teams could pass you on one night.

That's why there were so many fights in the 80's. Almost everyone made the playoffs. You lose a couple of games and it didn't really matter. Not anymore.

 

[daveleaf]

Why did the results of this team go down instead of up this year?

It was believed at one point that removing Orr/McLaren the solution to fix the Leafs by increasing team depth that it would make the team better.

Doesn't mean that Orr/McLaren were the reason for past limited improvement, but it does suggest they also weren't the problem as to why Leafs struggle to compete today.

Similarly to how Carlyle was "the problem" and his removal would fix the Leafs.

Process of elimination seems to be helping narrowing down what is really wrong with this team in what remains.

Hint hint.

Tell'em!

 

[Suntouchable13]

All you people talking crap know what Cherry is really saying.

The Leafs had balls of steel a few years ago with Orr, Frazer , McLaren and almost took out Boston.

Now they are soft like some of the people here. If Soccer was on Ice, Leafs right now would be in first place.

No problem with having them in the lineup if they were NHL caliber. They clearly are not at this stage. Playing non-NHL caliber players is counter productive.

 

[Quares27]

"Look at Matt Martin and Cal Clutterbuck" to "We need Orr and McLaren" seems like it's missing a key logical argument in the middle there.

(They're not the same).

Except he never said that. All he said was that the Isles 4th line was great because they're tough. The only reason he specifically mentions Orr and Mclaren is because he probably doesnt know anyone else on the Marlies. If you had any random fighter from Ontario on the 4th line instead of Orr/Mclaren Cherry would see it as the same thing.

Either way it's clear this team is way too soft, and while Orr should probably not be in the NHL again, a young, gritty line like Devane-Carrick-Panik could possibly do for us what Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck does for the Isles.

 

[Stephen]

We don't need an Orr, but it would be nice if we had a Shanahan in his prime who could beat up Kessel in a practice once in a while.

 

[Duke Silver]

Two Words: Steve Ott


Why didn't we pursue him? He'd be a perfect pest.

Leo Komarov ring any bells?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't think Cherry was talking about Orr and MacLaren making contributions on the ice, by fighting, scoring or otherwise. I think he was talking about them being on the bench gives the guys on the ice a bit less fear. Like carrying a knife in your pocket or a handgun under your jacket. You might not intend to use it but you might be less inclined to avoid the bad areas.

I wouldn't have both up here though on the 4th line. Maybe one plus a tough D, like Mark Fraser was. (another nice giveaway trade Nonis, BTW)

Cherry was talking about indentity of the Leafs. We had one the one half year we made the playoffs. Like it or not, Fraser, Orr, and Mclaren all were factors for this. When's the last time the team played like this?

It was about swagger and team identity. Leafs have none right now except being soft and easy to play against.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

As much as I disliked Domi, he brought an element to the team that Orr and McLaren never will be able to.

On top of being able to fight/intimidate, he could forecheck, hit hard, cycle, work his butt off, all the while chipping in with 5 to 8 goals and 15 to 25 points.

Sorry...I just despise talentless/worthless "policemen" like Orr and McLaren.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I didn't realized Cherry was a part of Tank Nation

 

[The Promised Land]

As much as I disliked Domi, he brought an element to the team that Orr and McLaren never will be able to.

On top of being able to fight/intimidate, he could forecheck, hit hard, cycle, work his butt off, all the while chipping in with 5 to 8 goals and 15 to 25 points.

Sorry...I just despise talentless/worthless "policemen" like Orr and McLaren.

Exactly, this is the type of toughness that is valuable; the hard but effective hitters who can skate, cycle and actually at least have some idea what they're doing with the puck. It's not the first time it's been said in this thread but apparently it needs to be repeated for some.

Orr and McLaren are arguably a step above beer league and that's basically all they've ever been; I've seen them live this season and it ain't pretty.

 

[Swervin81]

He is also the most patriotic Canadian that any of us know!

He is old and puts his foot in his mouth at times. He is correct about Ontario Born players by the way! Look at McDavid for proof.

Being patriotic and loving your own country is all good, just so long as you don't cross over into putting down others in near fanaticism (i.e. nationalism). Cherry tends to go towards the nationalism side way too often. Just this past weekend, calling Ron MacLean a barbarian for eating seal burger. An indirect slap to the face of Native Americans. Probably the first time I've heard Grapes be subtle about something in a while.

And yes, most of the word's best NHL players are from Canada on a national level and Ontario on a provincial level, no disputing that. Doesn't mean everyone else sucks or it is an indictment against a great player not to be from Ontario like Cherry seems to gravitate towards. Cherry will take an inferior Ontario born player over a superior foreigner or Quebecer just because "Good ol Kingston boy".

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

People really underestimate those "3 minutes a night". Enforcers set the tone of a team and we could use some tone of something.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Two Words: Steve Ott


Why didn't we pursue him? He'd be a perfect pest.

Even before that, I'm not sure why Burke, who apparently liked gritty hockey players, pursued Kris Versteeg instead of Andrew Ladd