Sportsnet: Cherry: Maple Leafs need Orr, McLaren back

[hfdshdh]

Shut the **** up, Donny.

 

[Mess]

Why did the results of this team go down instead of up this year?

It was believed at one point that removing Orr/McLaren the solution to fix the Leafs by increasing team depth that it would make the team better.

Doesn't mean that Orr/McLaren were the reason for past limited improvement, but it does suggest they also weren't the problem as to why Leafs struggle to compete today.

Similarly to how Carlyle was "the problem" and his removal would fix the Leafs.

Process of elimination seems to be helping narrowing down what is really wrong with this team in what remains.

 

[Leaf Lander]

Put them on the first line. For the rest if the year and for the next 3 yrs

 

[ShaneFalco]

If they really want to tank, yes bring them up

Seriously though, what a ridiculous suggestion

 

[topched]

Why did the results of this team go down instead of up this year?

It was believed at one point that removing Orr/McLaren the solution to fix the Leafs by increasing team depth that it would make the team better.

Doesn't mean that Orr/McLaren were the reason for past limited improvement, but it does suggest they also weren't the problem as to why Leafs struggle to compete today.

Similarly to how Carlyle was "the problem" and his removal would fix the Leafs.

Process of elimination seems to be helping narrowing down what is really wrong with this team in what remains.

No need to make this more complicated than it needs to be. Anyone with half a brain can see that there is no need to go through a process of elimination to discover the problem.

This teams top end talent is not good enough, plain and simple. Look around the league at the contending teams and the only common denominator is high end skill, and skill depth.

Burke and Nonis hitched their cart to the wrong horses a few years ago and no amount of tinkering is going to fix that fundamental issue.

Kessel and Phaneuf are good players, but a lineup built with them as centre pieces is not good enough. They need to find 1-2 players to form a tier of talent above them, and completely overhaul the tier below them (Bozak, Lupul, Clarkson etc). That may or may not involve having to move one of Kessel or Phaneuf from the equation

 

[diceman934]

I say bring them back and let them loose in practice.....telling them that they can go after all the (as Don likes to say) prima donna's.

Every time Bozak, Kessel etc avoids a check in a game they get ran in practice...or Maybe they can tag team Clarkson and he goes on the IR for like 5 years!

 

[PlietscherDassel]

Its actually not a bad idea for the rest of the season. Its not like we are competing for a playoff spot anymore. Orr and McLaren work hard, throw some hits and don't have enough talent to actually make this team win every game and risk our draft position.

If you don't have to win it is not a bad idea to play some players that have no talent but work hard and sacrifice themselves for the team to show some of our princesses that being talented is not enough.
Should they be on the team next season? No! But i wouldn't mind them now.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Leafs had an identity that year with Fraser, Mclaren, and Orr.

We have no identity except easy to play against and soft to play against.

 

[Swervin81]

Just for that, I hope we draft Rantanen and Provorov (with picks in range, of course) in this draft to better our future and, of course, to stick it to Grapes. All he is at this point is a senile old bigot who rants on Saturday nights about Ontario born players.

 

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

I actually face palmed so hard, I gave myself a concussion...

BAHAHAHAH so much win here

 

[Tak7]

Is Don right that we don't have an identity? Correct.

Is Don right that when we did have an identity, it was because of two 4th line enforcers? Wrong.

The problem with the Leafs now, compared to 2 years ago when Don was alluding too, was that the team had an identity. Tough, hard, miserable to play against.

Now that identity is gone. Pretty clear to see.

However, to put that identity on the enforcers is just foolish. You don't build a team identity based on 2 guys who only play 4 minutes a night.

That season their identity was forged by several players playing a much harder game - Komarov and Fraser were definitely in the mix. Some other guys weren't afraid to mix it up if needed as well.

 

[diceman934]

Just for that, I hope we draft Rantanen and Provorov (with picks in range, of course) in this draft to better our future and, of course, to stick it to Grapes. All he is at this point is a senile old bigot who rants on Saturday nights about Ontario born players.

He is also the most patriotic Canadian that any of us know!

He is old and puts his foot in his mouth at times. He is correct about Ontario Born players by the way! Look at McDavid for proof.

 

[diceman934]

Is Don right that we don't have an identity? Correct.

Is Don right that when we did have an identity, it was because of two 4th line enforcers? Wrong.

The problem with the Leafs now, compared to 2 years ago when Don was alluding too, was that the team had an identity. Tough, hard, miserable to play against.

Now that identity is gone. Pretty clear to see.



However, to put that identity on the enforcers is just foolish. You don't build a team identity based on 2 guys who only play 4 minutes a night.

That season their identity was forged by several players playing a much harder game - Komarov and Fraser were definitely in the mix. Some other guys weren't afraid to mix it up if needed as well.

His point was that with those two in the lineup the other players play bigger then they are....which is true.....like it or not his point is valid!

We play a very soft game and at the start of the year many said we do not need tough guys.....I say we do, we need someone to step up and defend our team.....on the ice and in the dressing room.

Salute Gate would never have happen if Orr was a Leaf....

 

[Suntouchable13]

Sure, bring them both up and play them 20 minutes a night

 

[Mess]

No need to make this more complicated than it needs to be. Anyone with half a brain can see that there is no need to go through a process of elimination to discover the problem.

This teams top end talent is not good enough, plain and simple. Look around the league at the contending teams and the only common denominator is high end skill, and skill depth.

Burke and Nonis hitched their cart to the wrong horses a few years ago and no amount of tinkering is going to fix that fundamental issue.

Kessel and Phaneuf are good players, but a lineup built with them as centre pieces is not good enough. They need to find 1-2 players to form a tier of talent above them, and completely overhaul the tier below them (Bozak, Lupul, Clarkson etc). That may or may not involve having to move one of Kessel or Phaneuf from the equation

Cherry's point

Leafs removed Orr/McLaren and the team results went down as they did by changing the coach and continued to drop.

Putting Orr and McLaren back in is not going to fix the problem (as you pointed out), but there is some value of being tougher to play against then they are now.

 

[sniper81]

Its actually not a bad idea for the rest of the season. Its not like we are competing for a playoff spot anymore. Orr and McLaren work hard, throw some hits and don't have enough talent to actually make this team win every game and risk our draft position.

If you don't have to win it is not a bad idea to play some players that have no talent but work hard and sacrifice themselves for the team to show some of our princesses that being talented is not enough.
Should they be on the team next season? No! But i wouldn't mind them now.

That's such a waste of development minutes. Why not give those NHL minutes to players who might play on the roster in the next few years.

 

[Leaf Army]

There's also a difference between toughness and intimidation.

We have some tough players but we don't have any scary players. We don't have enough meanness. The lack of fight on our team is noticeable.

Cherry used McLaren and Orr as examples because we had that meanness when they were here but of course I agree they aren't the answer now.

A guy like Franson is physical but he doesn't put fear into anyone. Komarov is as tough as anyone but nobody's afraid of him.

I do agree with Don that the entire team plays a little bit bigger when you play with that bit of an edge. Kadri's a good example. He played with a lot more swagger when Orr and McLaren were on the bench. Remember when he used to mouth off to everyone and get under people's skin. Even Komarov too.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I agree with Grapes. Bring back the goons and give them ice time. We need to tank.

 

[Pookie]

Not sure I agree with Orr and McLaren specifically being called up.

But the Leafs have to play tougher throughout the line up (forwards and blue line).

We have all the softness of the Detroit Red Wings… without the skill.

Ever see the players on the bench standing up banging sticks to acknowledge a teammate? Players notice.

 

[Pyrophorus]

...and sometimes not so great in hockey ideas.

idiocy.

They can't skate, nor contribute...they're scratches with the Marlies.
so many factors are against this.

 

[ryno23]

Not sure I agree with Orr and McLaren specifically being called up.

But the Leafs have to play tougher throughout the line up (forwards and blue line).

We have all the softness of the Detroit Red Wings… without the skill.

Yup that is my point. I agree with Don they need to get tougher to play against and bring back that mentality they had during the playoff year. They were tough to play against and the players had each others back.

Don't see that anymore as the team shifted away from that team to a softer team.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I agree with Grapes. Bring back the goons and give them ice time. We need to tank.

Well....that is a plus side. I'll give you that.

 

[senor martinez]

This season is lost. So bringing back McLaren and Orr at this point would serve us GREATLY. They are fighters that bring the fear and especially bring the ENTERTAINMENT back. Sports are entertainment and we right now need that badly. Our games are awful, dull. I'm ashamed of this team and its play.

We can't win now with these players and stupid fool coach as we all have evidence of that. So why not lose with mclaren and orr? We can win and lose with these fighters as well. Then our games would be nicer to watch and pure entertainent.

**** the maple leafs right now.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Cherry's point

Leafs removed Orr/McLaren and the team results went down as they did by changing the coach and continued to drop.

Putting Orr and McLaren back in is not going to fix the problem (as you pointed out), but there is some value of being tougher to play against then they are now.

This is where I'm going to miss Broll.
He was a 20g scoere in the O, and wasn't traslating well with the Marlies/Bears.
He's young though, and could add the sandpaper we were missing.

 

[Pyrophorus]

If they really want to tank, yes bring them up

Seriously though, what a ridiculous suggestion

nods.....absolutely.