Sportsnet: Cherry: Maple Leafs need Orr, McLaren back

[Suntouchable13]

Clarkson is terrible. What a waste of good money that was. Keep a guy who only shows up every 8th game around for 7 years - yeah thats just what we need. Get Orr back in the lineup and let him smash some heads. We may not be a playoff contender but we can play spoiler.

I think we need more "truculence"....

In order to "smash some heads" he needs to be able to catch up to guys. The truth is, he is not even AHL caliber at this point. What's the point of dressing borderline ECHL guys that have no hope of becoming more at this point? You either play NHL guys or young players that have a chance to be in the NHL for a while.

 

[Snow Dog]

Maybe the Marlies should be playing Orr or McClaren.They're record isn't very impressive either.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

Sure, if we're playing a team full of Kessel type players.

 

[TorNsh*]

I agree with this sentiment.

Would you rather two players that bring a physical presence and intimidation factor? Or two players that provide literally nothing but another body on the ice. Booth and Smith are utterly useless. Orr and McLaren are garbage hockey players, but I would much rather have them on the 4th line with a guy like Panik and let Rich hot dog with those two blowing the doors off of the opposing team's bench.

Orr and McLaren help form an identity. Are we a worse off team than the 2012 playoff squad? No, but that team, with Fraser, Orr, McLaren, O'Byrne, Komarov, etc. played with passion, direction, and had an identity that created a pack mentality.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Maybe the Marlies should be playing Orr or McClaren.They're record isn't very impressive either.

I don't know where it comes from that the Marlies aren't playing Orr and McLaren. They are playing them. They ate playing Devane also. Biggs can also be added to that mix. Marlies hockey is way tougher than Leaf hockey easily.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I agree with this sentiment.

Would you rather two players that bring a physical presence and intimidation factor? Or two players that provide literally nothing but another body on the ice. Booth and Smith are utterly useless. Orr and McLaren are garbage hockey players, but I would much rather have them on the 4th line with a guy like Panik and let Rich hot dog with those two blowing the doors off of the opposing team's bench.

Orr and McLaren help form an identity. Are we a worse off team than the 2012 playoff squad? No, but that team, with Fraser, Orr, McLaren, O'Byrne, Komarov, etc. played with passion, direction, and had an identity that created a pack mentality.

They were all moved out and now we have a team that is worse and no push and no identity. Its about way more than identity. Identity is a nice catch phrase is all. This team is repulsive and weak. What a thread this is.

Speaks volumes when most think grapes is the dumb one.

 

[Beleafer4]

YES! Preach Cherry, preach!

If you can't score goals, call up Or and McLaren!

 

[Mansfield]

I agree with this sentiment.

Would you rather two players that bring a physical presence and intimidation factor? Or two players that provide literally nothing but another body on the ice. Booth and Smith are utterly useless. Orr and McLaren are garbage hockey players, but I would much rather have them on the 4th line with a guy like Panik and let Rich hot dog with those two blowing the doors off of the opposing team's bench.

Orr and McLaren help form an identity. Are we a worse off team than the 2012 playoff squad? No, but that team, with Fraser, Orr, McLaren, O'Byrne, Komarov, etc. played with passion, direction, and had an identity that created a pack mentality.

the only identity the leafs had in 2012 was pointless facepunching and awesome goaltending. their play was pretty much just as bad as 2013 and this year.

Reimer and kessel were the reason the leafs were a playoff team. Fraser/Orr/Mclaren/Obyrne/Komarov had next to nothing to do with it

 

[HellasLEAF]

I'm not saying we need Orr and McLaren back, but there is no doubt the team is soft and not skilled enough to justify it.

 

[Beleafer4]

the only identity the leafs had in 2012 was pointless facepunching and awesome goaltending. their play was pretty much just as bad as 2013 and this year.

Reimer and kessel were the reason the leafs were a playoff team. Fraser/Orr/Mclaren/Obyrne/Komarov had next to nothing to do with it

Agreed. Leafs had the exact same nosedive with guys like or, brown and mclaren when the wheels fell off the wagon last year and 3 years ago.

Its clear cherry has an agenda. The leafs have been averaging barely more than 1g/game for the past month and Don Cherry's response is we need more fighters?! Lol he kidding?!

Fine, if the leafs were consistently getting run over by other teams, then who knows, maybe the cumulative 3 minutes that Orr and McLaren play might have helped - but that isn't the case

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Agreed. Leafs had the exact same nosedive with guys like or, brown and mclaren when the wheels fell off the wagon last year and 3 years ago.

Its clear cherry has an agenda. The leafs have been averaging barely more than 1g/game for the past month and Don Cherry's response is we need more fighters?! Lol he kidding?!

Fine, if the leafs were consistently getting run over by other teams, then who knows, maybe the cumulative 3 minutes that Orr and McLaren play might have helped - but that isn't the case

I would say that's a more scathing accusation against the supposed skill players everyone wanted. Its a way less damning account on the fighters considering the expectations imposed. So being just as bad with supposed better players is turned to say its still the character guys faults.

It just gets better every post in this thread ha. Better go check where you are getting that Orr played three minutes a game too. More like 7 minutes. All the posts by against fighting posters say 3 minutes. Well your wrong.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

the only identity the leafs had in 2012 was pointless facepunching and awesome goaltending. their play was pretty much just as bad as 2013 and this year.

Reimer and kessel were the reason the leafs were a playoff team. Fraser/Orr/Mclaren/Obyrne/Komarov had next to nothing to do with it

That's a understanding of that team you have. A wrong one but a understanding none the less.

 

[1995]

Orr and McLaren or Booth and Clarkson. Not sure I like my answer.

 

[diceman934]

the only identity the leafs had in 2012 was pointless facepunching and awesome goaltending. their play was pretty much just as bad as 2013 and this year.

Reimer and kessel were the reason the leafs were a playoff team. Fraser/Orr/Mclaren/Obyrne/Komarov had next to nothing to do with it

So wrong.....Kadri, was the biggest reason we made the playoffs as teams had to choose....shut Down Kessel's line or Kadri's.....secondary scoring!

Then add in Orr , Fraser and Mclearn and we were tough to play against....

 

[diceman934]

I love how people think that they know more about hockey then Cherry.....makes me laugh everytime I hear the words....

 

[keonsbitterness]

I love how people think that they know more about hockey then Cherry.....makes me laugh everytime I hear the words....

Greatest Mississauga Ice Dogs coach of all time!

 

[TorNsh*]

the only identity the leafs had in 2012 was pointless facepunching and awesome goaltending. their play was pretty much just as bad as 2013 and this year.

Reimer and kessel were the reason the leafs were a playoff team. Fraser/Orr/Mclaren/Obyrne/Komarov had next to nothing to do with it

You're so naive.

When a team is comprised of soft, socially awkward boys, you get a product of players playing for themselves; as individuals. Toronto, this season in particular, is as lazy, careless and complacent as I've seen them.

In 2012, the players not only wanted to win for themselves, but for eachother as teammates. Players were giving blood, and hard work was the motto. When you see Fraser laying in front of every shot, McLaren fighting Scott, Orr decapitating Plekanec, the star players have reason to play.

Today's Leafs clock in and clock out. Nobody, outside of a few (Polak, Komarov, Dion, etc.), are willing to battle for their teammates. Clarkson's interview was revealing in the sense that he gives 0 f***s about being scratched.

You honestly can't understand how vital this part of the game is unless you have played. If your teammates don't give a damn, or aren't willing to ***** their finger, it impacts the entire on-ice result. Can't stress how important an identity and unity are.

 

[TorNsh*]

You're so naive.

When a team is comprised of soft, socially awkward boys, you get a product of players playing for themselves; as individuals. Toronto, this season in particular, is as lazy, careless and complacent as I've seen them.

In 2012, the players not only wanted to win for themselves, but for eachother as teammates. Players were giving blood, and hard work was the motto. When you see Fraser laying in front of every shot, McLaren fighting Scott, Orr decapitating Plekanec, the star players have reason to play.

Today's Leafs clock in and clock out. Nobody, outside of a few (Polak, Komarov, Dion, etc.), are willing to battle for their teammates. Clarkson's interview was revealing in the sense that he gives 0 f***s about being scratched.

You honestly can't understand how vital this part of the game is unless you have played. If your teammates don't give a damn, or aren't willing to ***** their finger, it impacts the entire on-ice result. Can't stress how important an identity and unity are.

Look to Kadri as a supporting point for my argument.

The kid typically plays with fire and nastiness, yet this season may be the softest i've seen him play. When the Leafs employed a bottom six and defense with grit, we saw guys like Nazem buying into it. Kadri's offense has yet to be as dominant as that time period, and the physical brand he brought to the ice was wicked.

Same goes for JVR. Look to that series versus Boston where he battled Chara and resembled a true powerforward.The same can be said for Kulemin (i.e. running McQuaid).

It bleeds through the roster and does impact the entire team's performance. So replies like "Orr and McLaren aren't going to score" are so out of touch its funny.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

People keep going on about how we were so tough to play against during that magical 2013 season. Well we had both McLaren and Orr in the lineup during the 2013-14 season, hell we even added Clarkson and added Gleason, as well as had Bolland for a little bit. Why did that team with the tough guys who were such a factor in 2013, suddenly stop playing that way and weren't anywhere close to the level of play as we saw when we made the playoffs?

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Cherry was right on HNIC…this team is soft…the only year they made the playoffs since 2004 was when they had Mclaren and Orr fighting and intimidating the opponents on a nightly basis…just like Cherry said…teams didn't want to play the Leafs that season…in McLaren the Leafs have the toughest fighter in the NHL…when you don't have the horses to compete on a talent level you have to play to your strengths and the Leafs strength was intimidation…they shoulda stayed with that philosophy…the one that got 'em to the post-season

 

[TorNsh*]

People keep going on about how we were so tough to play against during that magical 2013 season. Well we had both McLaren and Orr in the lineup during the 2013-14 season, hell we even added Clarkson and added Gleason, as well as had Bolland for a little bit. Why did that team with the tough guys who were such a factor in 2013, suddenly stop playing that way and weren't anywhere close to the level of play as we saw when we made the playoffs?

Lost Komarov, O'Byrne, Fraser, and Brown.

Not to mention Bolland was injured for most of the season and Clarkson was suspended for 10 games right off of the bat.

Much of the team toughness was lost, and then some unfortunate luck (injuries, suspensions, etc.) killed what was left of the identity. It's also important to note that yes, Orr was/is pretty much done and past his expiry date. However, my premise still stands that players of his ilk (maybe slightly more capable) are important assets to a team.

 

[mikebel111*]

Cherry was right on HNIC…this team is soft…the only year they made the playoffs since 2004 was when they had Mclaren and Orr fighting and intimidating the opponents on a nightly basis…just like Cherry said…teams didn't want to play the Leafs that season…in McLaren the Leafs have the toughest fighter in the NHL…when you don't have the horses to compete on a talent level you have to play to your strengths and the Leafs strength was intimidation…they shoulda stayed with that philosophy…the one that got 'em to the post-season

Oh well why did we miss the post season last season with those so called important goons you mentioned?
Lol at thinking we need them.
Nice to see Nonis is smarter than that though only thing he has done well on though.
You people would rather see face punching than wins

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Lost Komarov, O'Byrne, Fraser, and Brown.

Not to mention Bolland was injured for most of the season and Clarkson was suspended for 10 games right off of the bat.

Much of the team toughness was lost, and then some unfortunate luck (injuries, suspensions, etc.) killed what was left of the identity. It's also important to note that yes, Orr was/is pretty much done and past his expiry date. However, my premise still stands that players of his ilk (maybe slightly more capable) are important assets to a team.

Ok that's a fair assessment. Fraser was here for a bit before he was traded and Gleason was he eventual replacement. Clarkson was brought in at the expense of losing Komarov, which was stupid.

I also think that we lost some heart that offseason. Buying out Grabovski who always went full board and letting Komarov go contributed to our lost identity as well.

I don't disagree that having tough players is beneficial. I do have a problem with the idea that somehow Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren would be the difference between us being a playoff team to where we are now. This core collapses with or without them. Neither of those guys would've prevented it.

To rectify this, you need mentally and physically tough guys at the core of the team, not fourth liners who'll barely play and are only good to throw fisticuffs. The core as a whole is a problem, and dressing two fourth line goons wouldn't help them.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I love how people think that they know more about hockey then Cherry.....makes me laugh everytime I hear the words....

Right, because they only put smart people on TV right? I don't hate Cherry, I usually respect his opinions but on certain things he's 20+ years behind, not that it's surprising given his age and the fact that older people typically act this way. Call the goons up, I don't care at this point but who'll even fight these guys? remember before, the last time they were up, they couldn't even find dance partners. There's no goons left to even fight Orr and Mclaren. Teams don't employ these guys anymore.

 

[TorNsh*]

Ok that's a fair assessment. Fraser was here for a bit before he was traded and Gleason was he eventual replacement. Clarkson was brought in at the expense of losing Komarov, which was stupid.

I also think that we lost some heart that offseason. Buying out Grabovski who always went full board and letting Komarov go contributed to our lost identity as well.

I don't disagree that having tough players is beneficial. I do have a problem with the idea that somehow Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren would be the difference between us being a playoff team to where we are now. This core collapses with or without them. Neither of those guys would've prevented it.

To rectify this, you need mentally and physically tough guys at the core of the team, not fourth liners who'll barely play and are only good to throw fisticuffs. The core as a whole is a problem, and dressing two fourth line goons wouldn't help them.

Agreed. Although, I would certainly prefer them over Booth/Smith.

Same reason I support the targeting of players like Methot, Kassian, etc. Bringing in 4th line toughness and bottom pairing grit is a start, and I think it is effective, but you're right in the sense that the core must have a lick of it too.