Player Discussion Charles Hudon Part III

[26Mats]

I was responding to the 40 points is 40 points argument. It's a bad comparison when players receive very different usages.

The problem is we are paying Shaw to be a 40 point player with lots of intagibles, but he's been a 30 point player for us. And given his generous PP time/usage that's not good enough.

Agreed. He is not earning his contract. I wonder if Chicago would take him back?

Claude Julien went on record yesterday in an interview saying he's giving Shaw and Deslauriers a shot but they could be healthy scratches soon.

I hope we trade Shaw before he's healthy scratched. That, imo would seriously decrease his trade value. I only heard Julien say what he said in French, so hopefully the rest of the league didn't hear it.

 

[montreal]

Claude Julien went on record yesterday in an interview saying he's giving Shaw and Deslauriers a shot but they could be healthy scratches soon.

I hope we trade Shaw before he's healthy scratched. That, imo would seriously decrease his trade value. I only heard Julien say what he said in French, so hopefully the rest of the league didn't hear it.

I expected guys like Deslauriers and Niemi to fall back to earth this year. When we got them last year all we heard from fans of their teams was how terrible they were. Deslauriers in 3 years scores 12 goals and then with us he pots 10 in 58 games. Before the Habs he had a .14 ppg over his career, and last year he was likely going to score more goals in one year then he had in his entire NHL career. Now maybe it's due to him playing at home and seeing this could be his last chance and he was 26 so in his prime. I don't know what happened to him the previous year with the Sabers when he had 2 pts in 42 games. Just hard to believe that he would all the sudden be so much better. So we'll see as it's only been 1 game and he was out with the injury, I hope he does keep it up but it's hard to believe.

Same for Niemi although very different situation in that he had a good career but his numbers have been on the decline since '12-'13 in the lockout year where he posted career highs. His last season with the Stars, and the small handful of games he played w/Pens/Panthers it looked like his career was over. Then he plays great on a team that Price looked like shit on, and now at age 35 you have to wonder how he would keep up this play. It's only been 2 games so we'll have to see.

 

[beowulf]

I expected guys like Deslauriers and Niemi to fall back to earth this year. When we got them last year all we heard from fans of their teams was how terrible they were. Deslauriers in 3 years scores 12 goals and then with us he pots 10 in 58 games. Before the Habs he had a .14 ppg over his career, and last year he was likely going to score more goals in one year then he had in his entire NHL career. Now maybe it's due to him playing at home and seeing this could be his last chance and he was 26 so in his prime. I don't know what happened to him the previous year with the Sabres when he had 2 pts in 42 games. Just hard to believe that he would all the sudden be so much better. So we'll see as it's only been 1 game and he was out, I hope he does keep it up but it's hard to believe.

Same for Niemi although very different situation in that he had a good career but his numbers have been on the decline since '12-'13 in the lockout year where he posted career highs. His last season with the Stars, and the small handful of games he played w/Pens/Panthers it looked like his career was over. Then he plays great on a team that Price looked like **** on, and now at age 35 you have to wonder how he would keep up this play. It's only been 2 games so we'll have to see.

Agree with Deslauriers and Niemi would take a minor miracle for them to match their Habs success from last year. Hudon should get more chances, dude is not a bad player.

 

[montreal]

Agree with Deslauriers and Niemi would take a minor miracle for them to match their Habs success from last year. Hudon should get more chances, dude is not a bad player.

for sure, Hudon has produced at every level despite not being big, fast or strong. I do think he must work on getting quicker since today's NHL is just so damn fast but he's got smarts. That said he's not a great fit on the 4th line but hopefully they can find a way to get him some quality ice time here and there. Perhaps later in the year when a few moves are made it will clear the way for more ice for him.

 

[1909]

for sure, Hudon has produced at every level despite not being big, fast or strong. I do think he must work on getting quicker since today's NHL is just so damn fast but he's got smarts. That said he's not a great fit on the 4th line but hopefully they can find a way to get him some quality ice time here and there. Perhaps later in the year when a few moves are made it will clear the way for more ice for him.

I cant' see any. All of the actual top nine players should be there for a good while. Hudon and Scherbak are condemned to wait to play because of injuries or be traded elsewhere.

 

[montreal]

I cant' see any. All of the actual top nine players should be there for a good while. Hudon and Scherbak are condemned to wait to play because of injuries or be traded elsewhere.

I read somewhere that since 2012 no GM has had more trades then MB. There's almost zero chance he just stops making trades. So by the deadline or the off-season I'm sure he'll of made a few moves by then.

 

[26Mats]

I expected guys like Deslauriers and Niemi to fall back to earth this year. When we got them last year all we heard from fans of their teams was how terrible they were. Deslauriers in 3 years scores 12 goals and then with us he pots 10 in 58 games. Before the Habs he had a .14 ppg over his career, and last year he was likely going to score more goals in one year then he had in his entire NHL career. Now maybe it's due to him playing at home and seeing this could be his last chance and he was 26 so in his prime. I don't know what happened to him the previous year with the Sabres when he had 2 pts in 42 games. Just hard to believe that he would all the sudden be so much better. So we'll see as it's only been 1 game and he was out with the injury, I hope he does keep it up but it's hard to believe.

Same for Niemi although very different situation in that he had a good career but his numbers have been on the decline since '12-'13 in the lockout year where he posted career highs. His last season with the Stars, and the small handful of games he played w/Pens/Panthers it looked like his career was over. Then he plays great on a team that Price looked like **** on, and now at age 35 you have to wonder how he would keep up this play. It's only been 2 games so we'll have to see.

Price was having a lot of troubles before Stephane Waite came into the fold. I would not put it past him to have "reached" Niemi and here and in Chicago.

As for Deslauriers, I like him, more than Shaw (at least given their salaries and what I think Shaw could fetch in a trade). But I like Hudon more. I think Hudon can be a 40-50 point 3rd line guy. He could even put up points from the 4th line and on the 2nd unit of the pp. I don't see Deslauriers being able to do that and I think we'll need all the offense we can get this year.

 

[otto bond]

I say play him or trade him. No doubt his speed is an issue but he makes up other ways.

 

[Skip Bayless]

His speed isn't an issue, he's just victim of the overpopulation of wingers in this team. He'll either get his chance here or somewhere else, but he's definitely top 9 material, maybe more.

 

[Habssince89]

Should draw in for Shaw. Hudon should have a crack at armia's spot on the third line.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Should draw in for Shaw. Hudon should have a crack at armia's spot on the third line.

Would rather he takes Deslauriers' spot than Shaw's.

I really liked Hudon - Peca - Shaw as the fourth line. They were actually producing despite the limited TOI.

 

[montreal]

His speed isn't an issue, he's just victim of the overpopulation of wingers in this team. He'll either get his chance here or somewhere else, but he's definitely top 9 material, maybe more.

I'd say it's very much an issue, speed has always been a problem for him as well as being undersized and lacking strength. If he's out of the NHL in say a year or two it would be due to lack of speed imo.

 

[Agalloch]

I'd say it's very much an issue, speed has always been a problem for him as well as being undersized and lacking strength. If he's out of the NHL in say a year or two it would be due to lack of speed imo.

Shaw doesn't seem too fast either and he's playing in the NHL.

 

[montreal]

Shaw doesn't seem too fast either and he's playing in the NHL.

he's not slow at all imo, I don't think speed is an issue for him and he brings something very different. If Hudon played the game the way that Shaw did it would be a different story. Hudon has to produce offense and so far he's done that really well all things considering, but if his production drops then he's going to have problems getting ice and his main problem has always been his lack of speed imo.

 

[BaseballCoach]

he's not slow at all imo, I don't think speed is an issue for him and he brings something very different. If Hudon played the game the way that Shaw did it would be a different story. Hudon has to produce offense and so far he's done that really well all things considering, but if his production drops then he's going to have problems getting ice and his main problem has always been his lack of speed imo.

Even his fancy-schmancy goal in preseason came after the defenceman easily caught hinm on a breakaway, and he spun around and put one through the five-hole. But the way he was caught, he looked like Chipchura.

Shaw doesn't seem too fast either and he's playing in the NHL.

Shaw is quicker than you might think.

 

[S Bah]

The competition for jobs this season is far more intense than anytime in the last 25yrs. IMHO!!!...

 

[Skip Bayless]

I'd say it's very much an issue, speed has always been a problem for him as well as being undersized and lacking strength. If he's out of the NHL in say a year or two it would be due to lack of speed imo.

I disagree, his speed is adequate. He's a smart player, and his puck skills are pretty good. He's been able to generate a considerable amount of offense given the players he's played with since last year. With better finish and linemates, he would've easily been a 40 points scorer last season. I'd say he'll stick in the NHL for a while.

 

[montreal]

I disagree, his speed is adequate. He's a smart player, and his puck skills are pretty good. He's been able to generate a considerable amount of offense given the players he's played with since last year. With better finish and linemates, he would've easily been a 40 points scorer last season. I'd say he'll stick in the NHL for a while.

I've been one of Hudon's biggest supporters on this site, but I don't think his speed is adequate or at least as i said it's always been an issue and imo if he is out of the league in a few years the biggest reason will be his speed outside of an injury of course. He's always been a very smart player that can produce, I really thought he was one of our best players last year, he had so many chances and if he just had a little more luck he hits 40 pts and that would be impressive considering he was a rookie playing with the blackhole of offense.

 

[JuicyHam]

I'd say it's very much an issue, speed has always been a problem for him as well as being undersized and lacking strength. If he's out of the NHL in say a year or two it would be due to lack of speed imo.

He honestly looks a lot faster this year. I'd say it's definitely one of the least concerning things. I think the only reason he was taken out of the lineup was his dumb penalties and Deslauriers and Shaw needed time to play according to Julien and was the odd one out. He's burned some defenders a couple of times coming up the wing this year. Obviously he's no Byron but I'd say he's faster than half of the players on the team.

 

[montreal]

He honestly looks a lot faster this year. I'd say it's definitely one of the least concerning things. I think the only reason he was taken out of the lineup was his dumb penalties and Deslauriers and Shaw needed time to play according to Julien and was the odd one out. He's burned some defenders a couple of times coming up the wing this year. Obviously he's no Byron but I'd say he's faster than half of the players on the team.

we'll see, he doesn't look faster to me. I highly doubt he's faster then half the players on the team.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I've been one of Hudon's biggest supporters on this site, but I don't think his speed is adequate or at least as i said it's always been an issue and imo if he is out of the league in a few years the biggest reason will be his speed outside of an injury of course. He's always been a very smart player that can produce, I really thought he was one of our best players last year, he had so many chances and if he just had a little more luck he hits 40 pts and that would be impressive considering he was a rookie playing with the blackhole of offense.

I agree with this assessment. There is no substitute for speed. Montreal upped the team's overall speed and now they are competitive. Hudon is at best a mediocre skater. He can't create adequate space and time that will allow him to use his hand skills. Teams love playing against his level of skating. It's the main reason I worry about Suzuki's ceiling. Nothing that I have seen gives me confidence that his game in Junior Hockey is transferable to the NHL. Is he really that much of an upgrade over Hudon? Its a pleasure watching what Drouin, Domi, Byron, etc. bring to the game. An up tempo style that constantly puts pressure on the opposition. That's how you win hockey games today. Hudon adds nothing to this style. Hudon is a step backwards to a time when the team truly deserved to be a lottery pick.

 

[26Mats]

I've been one of Hudon's biggest supporters on this site, but I don't think his speed is adequate or at least as i said it's always been an issue and imo if he is out of the league in a few years the biggest reason will be his speed outside of an injury of course. He's always been a very smart player that can produce, I really thought he was one of our best players last year, he had so many chances and if he just had a little more luck he hits 40 pts and that would be impressive considering he was a rookie playing with the blackhole of offense.

I agree that his speed is his main issue. But I don't think he's useless because of it. Plus I hope, like Gallagher, he can improve his speed.

 

[montreal]

I agree that his speed is his main issue. But I don't think he's useless because of it. Plus I hope, like Gallagher, he can improve his speed.

he was on pace for 34 pts last year while playing most with Pleks so clearly he's far from useless as he had several chances were he just seemed a bit unlucky so I do think he can be a 40+ player but I think he's got to work on getting quicker.

 

[Sorinth]

His speed isn't an issue, he's just victim of the overpopulation of wingers in this team. He'll either get his chance here or somewhere else, but he's definitely top 9 material, maybe more.

His lack of speed might not hold him back from having a decent NHL career, but that doesn't mean it's not holding him back.

For example, apart from speed him and Lehkonen are fairly similar players, they are both skilled, intelligent, responsible wingers who most consider to be "middle-six". But Lehkonen is getting top-6 time, whereas Hudon is shuffling around with the Shaw/Deslauriers because of the difference in speed.

 

[Skip Bayless]

His lack of speed might not hold him back from having a decent NHL career, but that doesn't mean it's not holding him back.

For example, apart from speed him and Lehkonen are fairly similar players, they are both skilled, intelligent, responsible wingers who most consider to be "middle-six". But Lehkonen is getting top-6 time, whereas Hudon is shuffling around with the Shaw/Deslauriers because of the difference in speed.

I don't think there's much difference in their speed. The main reason I see Lehkonen playing with Drouin and Domi is because of his north-south style, his two way play and he's more of a shooter. It's more of a matter of complementarity than speed. He can do the dirty work for Domi and Drouin while still providing some offense.

Nothing's really holding Hudon back, he's played well since he's been in the NHL. The main reason why he's the odd man out right now is that the team has now many players like him and they want a different look on the 4th line (maybe even trying to showcase some players).