Champions Hockey League 2018-2019

[vorky]

Fact 1. Continental Cup is a qualifying tournament for CHL

That is true.

Fact 2. With that CHL + Continental Cup combo there are teams from over 20 european hockey countries that compete for the title Champion of Europe, year after year.

I am too lazy to count number of countries, hoping you did your research.

Fact 3. Russia has excluded them selfs from this competition. Probably because they don't what to co-operate with Europe, they want to do something else with Europe. For example the kind of things, they are doing in Ukraine of did in Great Britain

The KHL had a team from Ukraine, that is true.
The KHL has never had a team from the Great Britain.

Fact 4. Every Kazakh league team has a possibility to play in CHL in the future.

That is not true.

Fact 5. Arlan Kokshetau from Kazakhstan will participate in this year Continental Cup (wikipedia) and therefore has a change to get a place in CHL for next season.

Arlan might play the Continental Cup.

Second part of the sentence is not true.

Fake fact. No Kazakh club can ever enter CHL

It is not true a Kazakh team can enter the CHL.

Fake fact 2. There is a second tier team amongst the CHL founding members or has ever been, as long as tournament has been played (from season 2014-15).

There was a CHL founding team from 2nd tier league at the moment of establishment.

Fact 6. And if we go to history (which is totally irrelevant in this case) we can also say that KHL team Jokerit have been a second tier team, at some point in their history. That's a fact, but totally irrelevant.

Jokerit was not a 2nd tier club at the moment of joining the KHL. I believe you that Jokerit played lower Finnish division in its history.

Fact 7. Also a fact (but totally irrelevant) that there are again (suprise suprise) some doping suspicion on russian athletes (yle.fi / text in finnish, but basicly four russian biathletes are under doping suspicion)

This has nothing to do with the topic.

To me it seems that you are the lazy one that has no time to make a research.

Every human being has a right to be lazy sometimes.

 

[vorky]

Tournament that ends in february is a pre-season tournament? Where do you live man? Australia or New Zeeland?

I will help you. There is a profile icon on the left. Location = Zurich. Public knowledge is that Zurich is a city in Switzerland.

 

[Toro2017]

That is not true.

Second part of the sentence is not true.

It is not true a Kazakh team can enter the CHL.

I was speaking about the future. If you are saying that no Kazakh club can ever play in CHL, you are talking nonsense. Non of us can know (for 100% certainty) what will happen in the future. So even if something seems to look like something today, it may look different in the future. So if you can not predict the future, then your speculations on the future is just that. Speculation.

There was a CHL founding team from 2nd tier league at the moment of establishment.

Russian hockey was basicly born under evil communist rule (where state run doping programs were business as usual). Is that at all relevant, when we look russian hockey today? No. Same way it is not relevant at all, who founded Champions Hockey League. Relevant thing is that out of those europeans that want to belong to the united european hockey family, the best ones participate in this tournament. This is the situation today.

Every human being has a right to be lazy sometimes.

Well, some people seems to be lazier than others.

 

[Toro2017]

I will help you. There is a profile icon on the left. Location = Zurich. Public knowledge is that Zurich is a city in Switzerland.

If I would write to my location Kreml or Vatican city, would you thing that I live on either of those places? And if you are in such a helpful mode, can you help with the relevant part of that quoted part and tell us when the hockey season starts in Switzerland? After of before february?

 

[vorky]

I was speaking about the future. If you are saying that no Kazakh club can ever play in CHL, you are talking nonsense. Non of us can know (for 100% certainty) what will happen in the future. So even if something seems to look like something today, it may look different in the future. So if you can not predict the future, then your speculations on the future is just that. Speculation.

I spoke about the future as well. Of course, not about year of 3000. Here you are right, we do not know what will happen. There is a chance there will be no CHL, hockey or mankind at the time.

If we talk about near future, a Kazakh team can not play the CHL. If looking at the CHL´s steps it is very unlikely this no-Kazakhs rule to be changed.

Russian hockey was basicly born under evil communist rule (where state run doping programs were business as usual). Is that at all relevant, when we look russian hockey today? No. Same way it is not relevant at all, who founded Champions Hockey League. Relevant thing is that out of those europeans that want to belong to the united european hockey family, the best ones participate in this tournament. This is the situation today.

Jokerit did not join the KHL during Soviet era, so your story is irrelevant.

I would not add a term "united" like you did. If you look at nowadays European hockey, you can claim anything, but not that an European hockey is united.

Well, some people seems to be lazier than others.

That might be true.

 

[Jussi]

Fact 6. And if we go to history (which is totally irrelevant in this case) we can also say that KHL team Jokerit have been a second tier team, at some point in their history. That's a fact, but totally irrelevant.

To me it seems that you are the lazy one that has no time to make a research.

And Jokerit hadn't been exactly "elite" in Finland for years, last title win was in 2002. They were a prime example of "how to waste your potential" by doing things poorly in the front office when it came to team management, financial and marketing and a sometimes gross mismanagement of their junior system. Things looked better/promising for a while when Jarmo Kekäläinen was the GM but now they're an almost equally poor example in KHL to other European clubs.

 

[Jussi]

I am sorry that I am not able to find all stats, perhaps you can help with a research.

Attendance
2013/2014, Jokerit 9th in EU, best in FIN, following FIN club on 23th place in EU
2012/2013, Jokerit 8th in EU, best in FIN, following FIN club on 16th place in EU

Jokerit made a play-off last five seasons before moving, won a regular season in 2012-13, and bronze a season earlier.

According to your logic, the Maple Leafs are not elite NHL club since 2005.

Leafs aren't an elite NHL club until they win the Stanley Cup again. Everybody on this site (except Leafs fans) know that to be true.

Attendance doesn't make one an elite club, it's league success. And considering arena capacity, Jokerit numbers were not good. Topping the league in the regular season while failing to win the title or even make the finals was not good/enough for any Jokerit fan. With Jokerit resources in the league, a place in the finals should've been "automatic" and it showed in playoff attendances. Hartwall Arena wasn't filled until the finals. Fans had higher expectations than a regular season win and getting knocked out in the quarters or semis or even wild card playoff as in the last Liiga season. Kärpät are the only club in Finland at the time that would have matched "elite" status are perennial finalists and winners of the league.

 

[Jussi]

You can verify, there is a lot of informations of this kind.

I'm referring to CHL vs KHL.

 

[vorky]

We can talk again when you are interested in CHL talks.

 

[Frenchy]

guys , stay on topic

 

[Toro2017]

If we talk about near future, a Kazakh team can not play the CHL. If looking at the CHL´s steps it is very unlikely this no-Kazakhs rule to be changed.

So you have a source (that for some reason I have ask you about) where it becomes clear that no Kazakhs club is to be allowed in CHL in the near future? Not even in the case that some outside company or community is ready to pay for the extra cost? Or is this just another lazy fact checking and speculations?

 

[Go Donbass]

The CHL has a new mobile app. It's pretty decent, but the live-streaming is really buggy. Hope they can get it fixed soon.

In terms of day 1, the Aalborg-Zurich game was the best of the bunch, with Aalborg almost pulling of the upset, but blowing a 2 goal lead in the third and losing 6-5 in OT.

 

[Zamboni Parade]

Why did Zürich not pull their starting goalie? He allowed 5 goals on 17 shots.

 

[Hammer Slammer]

Doesn't look like any prospects are going to get much icetime at all in the early games. Lundell, Holtz, Grewe, Bjornfot all with 0:00 halfway through the 1st.

I was recording Djurgarden, but I might switch over to TPS in a half hour as I'm sure Kakko will get plenty of icetime.

 

[vorky]

So you have a source (that for some reason I have ask you about) where it becomes clear that no Kazakhs club is to be allowed in CHL in the near future? Not even in the case that some outside company or community is ready to pay for the extra cost? Or is this just another lazy fact checking and speculations?

Yes, I have. Why do you think I did not do my research?

On the contrary, the CHL Board has agreed it cannot accept either Nomad Astana (KAZ) or Ritten Sport (ITA) as CHL qualifiers if they win the IIHF Continental Cup. Nomad Astana, as a Kazakh team, is geographically based in Central Asia and is therefore not eligible for a pan-European competition. Ritten Sport plays in the Alps Hockey League and is therefore considered a second-division team (underneath the EBEL) which cannot be eligible for the CHL.

 

[scipio]

If I would write to my location Kreml or Vatican city, would you thing that I live on either of those places? And if you are in such a helpful mode, can you help with the relevant part of that quoted part and tell us when the hockey season starts in Switzerland? After of before february?

My hometown is Zürich, Switzerland. Let me rephrase my statement for you: the group stage of the CHL is/feels like a pre-season tournament. In Switzerland the season starts end of September, CHL starts end of August and ends early October. In the old CHL the group stage started early October and ended early December.

I do think that this has an impact on how the new and old CHL are perceived, e.g. there is a clear difference in attendance: I can only talk about Zürich, but the games were really well attended in the old CHL: almost 8'500 on average when we played in our home arena, which was more than the average in the league qualification games (7700), unfortunately we had to play knockout games in another arena due to scheduling issues. These games were attended by 6100 people (sold out arena). Now in the new format we have 3500 people who are interested in the CHL and almost 9000 on average in league qualification games.

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of the CHL and I want my team to win. I'm just not convinced of the current format.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

The Swiss teams have been on ice for what, 10 days?

As for DIF, no kids are dressed tonight.

 

[SoundAndFury]

My hometown is Zürich, Switzerland. Let me rephrase my statement for you: the group stage of the CHL is/feels like a pre-season tournament. In Switzerland the season starts end of September, CHL starts end of August and ends early October. In the old CHL the group stage started early October and ended early December.

I actually think it's supposed to feel like that by design. Big clubs cruise through the group stage anyway so CHL for them is just a part of the pre-season. Instead of having to organize friendly tournaments they just play CHL, like Kometa are playing with half of their actual roster tonight. Nonetheless, that attracted a full house in Grodno.

The little teams/countries are the biggest winners of the CHL at this point, I don't think there is much wrong with that.

 

[scipio]

I actually think it's supposed to feel like that by design. Big clubs cruise through the group stage anyway so CHL for them is just a part of the pre-season. Instead of having to organize friendly tournaments they just play CHL, like Kometa are playing with half of their actual roster tonight. Nonetheless, that attracted a full house in Grodno.

The little teams/countries are the biggest winners of the CHL at this point, I don't think there is much wrong with that.

Just unfortunate if that feeling carries over into the knockout stage, which it does in my opinion. Also not sure how much the smaller teams and leagues really profit from the CHL at this point. I thought I remembered an article saying that teams actually loose money from participating in the tournament? Might be wrong on this.

 

[vorky]

Just unfortunately if that feeling carries over into the knockout stage, which it does in my opinion. Also not sure how much the smaller teams and leagues really profit from the CHL at this point. I thought I remembered an article saying that teams actually loose money from participating in the tournament? Might be wrong on this.

Smaller teams/leagues benefit from it sport-wise.

Smaller teams have definitelly problems with costs, no money for travelling. One CZ club - Zlín - wanted to boycott the CHL for this reason. Yes, smaller clubs might have higher attendance than big clubs, but they have also much smaller arenas.

And big clubs have bigger arenas, but fans do not care so much.

If you look at latest available data, majority of clubs got around 20k-30k EUR for whole season. Last season is not available for a reason (why to put a data to public if it creates a bad imagine of the league?)

 

[scipio]

If you look at latest available data, majority of clubs got around 20k-30k EUR for whole season. Last season is not available for a reason (why to put a data to public if it creates a bad imagine of the league?)

Just to put this into perspective: in the old CHL you got 300'000 Euro just for participating. I think that's more than the winner recently got?

 

[Jablkon]

Jesus dont speak with that crippled troll.

To another topic. Loud atmosphere in Hradec Kralove tonight. 200 ? people from Nurnberg. Hradec wont break its karma easily and lost to Nurnberg 1:2 They are definetely not ready for the season yet. 3000 spectators.

 

[vorky]

Just to put this into perspective: in the old CHL you got 300'000 Euro just for participating. I think that's more than the winner recently got?

The bigest prize money in 16/17 was 143k, of course, just a winner. The champion of latest season got 300k, but no data for the rest of teams. Prize money budget is still around 1,5m EUR and will increase to 3m or so by 2022 (or 2023, I do not remember all details).

You can check it by yourself (season reviews for all seasons)
Champions Hockey League Season Review 2017/18

The CHL 2008
Every participating team was guaranteed an appearance fee of 300,000 euro and the winner received 1,000,000 euro. Prize money was also be awarded for winning group stage matches (50,000 euro), for the semi-final appearance (200,000 euro) and for the other finalist (500,000 euro). In total, 10 million euros were distributed, the largest prize sum ever in a European hockey club competition.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Good stuff from Heponiemi-Kupari-Pyörälä line for Kärpät.
- lots and lots to improve though, it was only first real game

Its obvious that Heponiemi&Kupari will have fun times this season, Sm-Liiga, CHL and...for Team Finland as well.
Heponiemi-Kupari-Kakko line for both u20 wjc and for wc?.

 

[Go Donbass]

I wonder if it might be possible to have a "Whining and snivelling about the CHL" thread, and leave this one open for people who actually want to talk about the competition?