Rumor: Carolina seeking Saad in a Faulk trade

[Jared Dunn]

The Hossa contract only has a salary of 1 M while Darling is 4.7, 4.1, and 3.

Carolina is also a budget team though right? Hossa contract is still negative value if uninsured, I think Carolina would retain a quarter roughly as Big Daddy up there suggested

 

[admiralcadillac]

Panarin for Faulk - seems fair

 

[Jared Dunn]

The max Carolina can retain on Darling, while taking on Hossa's contract, if uninsured, to break even relative to a pure Darling buyout is ~41% or ~$1.7 mil. I think Carolina would want that lower to help pay for the final years of Saad's backloaded contract.

Darling at ~$3.1 mil (~25%) sound reasonable?

Seems okay to me but I'm not really one to comment from a Chicago perspective

 

[Unsustainable]

Saad / Hossa for Faulk / Darling

Seems like a fair deal

 

[Jay haller]

Saad / Hossa for Faulk / Darling

Seems like a fair deal

Unless they are getting Pacioretty for 27 and a duclair pass

 

[BB88]

A saad/faulk swap wouldn’t shock me, these teams have hooked up on notable trades a couple of times.

Aho, Svec, TT, Necas, Staal, Lindholm, Saad, Williams(Skinner).

If Canes aren't keen on re-signing Skinner longterm getting someone like Saad(3 years left) for Faulk to replace him makes sense, get a player back and be able to look more trade options with Skinner.
Especially with the additions of Svec& Necas their offense should see a nice improvement from previous years.

This is a big offseason for Canes, they could be looking good next season with a bright future.

 

[Brock Anton]

Yeah, Saad and Hossa for Faulk and Darling makes sense on the surface. Maybe minor additions/retentions where need be, but the base of that looks fair.

Hossa's contract being only $1M in actual salary is probably enticing to Carolina, plus his cap hit helps us reach the floor.

 

[AvatarAang]

Yeah, Saad and Hossa for Faulk and Darling makes sense on the surface. Maybe minor additions/retentions where need be, but the base of that looks fair.

Hossa's contract being only $1M in actual salary is probably enticing to Carolina, plus his cap hit helps us reach the floor.

The only way this post could make more sense is if you used the word nadir somewhere in it.

 

[emptyNedder]

If Canes aren't keen on re-signing Skinner longterm getting someone like Saad(3 years left) for Faulk to replace him makes sense,

Totally agree. IMO the biggest need for the Canes is an experienced LW to play on Svechnikov's line. While Skinner is experienced, his style won't help Svech. Figuring out the tending might be second biggest need and moving Darling is a start.

 

[Brock Anton]

The only way this post could make more sense is if you used the word nadir somewhere in it.

I mean, that would imply that I knew what that word meant.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Carolina is also a budget team though right? Hossa contract is still negative value if uninsured, I think Carolina would retain a quarter roughly as Big Daddy up there suggested

Not sure with the new owner. Point is Hossa is only owed 3 M more over the next 3 years and Darling is going to be paid 11.8 M. Considering that I suspect Carolina wants to move on from Darling, matching Hossa to Darling is decidedly in Carolina's favor.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

While I'm sure it makes sense that Carolina would "ask" for Saad, I'm not sure it makes sense that the Hawks would do that. On the surface, it seems to be a reasonably fair deal value-wise, but I was under the impression that the whole reason why Chicago would want Faulk is because they feel they still have a window over the next couple of years with Kane, Keith and Toews and Faulk would help them in that regard. Granted, Saad struggled last year as well, but wouldn't a Faulk for Saad deal kind of be a "1 step forward, 1 step back"?

Maybe if they get Darling (with retention) and lose Hossa, they have some flexibility to add someone else in a different trade/signing?

Seems like Chicago would want to move futures for Faulk and Carolina would want equal value players for Faulk which might make a deal tough.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Not sure with the new owner. Point is Hossa is only owed 3 M more over the next 3 years and Darling is going to be paid 11.8 M. Considering that I suspect Carolina wants to move on from Darling, matching Hossa to Darling is decidedly in Carolina's favor.

Yeah for sure and they totally would have to retain some. That being said, I don't think it will be retention to the point of Darling having positive value. I think you'd see his cap hit sitting at about 3 million per year for Chicago in a deal like this

 

[BB88]

Totally agree. IMO the biggest need for the Canes is an experienced LW to play on Svechnikov's line. While Skinner is experienced, his style won't help Svech. Figuring out the tending might be second biggest need and moving Darling is a start.

We've all heard how the Canes want to get tougher supposedly, and all kinds of garbage offers because of it here.

Adding Saad/Svec gives their F group a whole new look, adding size/toughness without sacrifising talent or speed.
This would also mean no bad signings or trades for certain players past their prime, which would be a huge +.
Saad will only be 26y next season.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Yeah for sure and they totally would have to retain some. That being said, I don't think it will be retention to the point of Darling having positive value. I think you'd see his cap hit sitting at about 3 million per year for Chicago in a deal like this

If I am Chicago, I don't do it unless Carolina retains the maximum. Chicago can't have 9+ of cap space tied to goalie position. Still not sure if I would make the deal. I feel confident Saad is going to bounce back to a 50-55 pt player while being fantastic at even strength. I don't know enough about Faulk and if he's worth that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If I am Chicago, I don't do it unless Carolina retains the maximum. Chicago can't have 9+ of cap space tied to goalie position. Still not sure if I would make the deal. I feel confident Saad is going to bounce back to a 50-55 pt player while being fantastic at even strength. I don't know enough about Faulk and if he's worth that.

As has been mentioned previously, Canes could buy-out Darling for $7.9M in real dollars over 6 years and he's owed $11.8M over 3 years. If they retained 50%, they are saving less than $2M in real money vs. just buying him out. So taking on Hossa and retaining 50% on Darling would mean the Canes make out worse financially than just buying him out.

EDIT: quoted wrong post initially.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Carolina retaining the max and taking on Hossa is not viable. That actually would cost ~$1 mil more than just buying Darling out. Hossa provides no value to the Canes; the team won't need him to clear the cap floor with raises coming for van Riemsdyk, Lindholm and Hanifin.

EDIT: Basically, what Boom Boom Apathy said.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

As has been mentioned previously, Canes could buy-out Darling for $7.9M in real dollars over 6 years and he's owed $11.8M over 3 years. If they retained 50%, they are saving less than $2M in real money vs. just buying him out. So taking on Hossa and retaining 50% on Darling would mean the Canes make out worse financially than just buying him out.

EDIT: quoted wrong post initially.

In that case, maybe the Hawks know that Crawford is not coming back or greatly question his health in general. That would be the only way I take on Darling at 3 M. If they did, the Hawks would then have Toews and Kane at 10.5 each, Seabrook at 6.8 (FML), and 9 M in goal. I don't think that is the ideal way to construct a team.

 

[thesaadfather]

I wouldn’t do this personally. I like Faulk, and would add him for futures, but I don’t think the Hawks should give up significant roster players for him. They need their forwards more involved in the offense, that was a big problem last year. Their D needs an upgrade, but the primary worry there should be to upgrade their defensive ability. Besides, the Hawks are looking at Jokiharu/Mitchell getting ready to step in over the next year or two. I think they would be better served just letting those guys grow into a role and trying to figure out a Darling/Hossa swap.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

For the record, crunching the numbers on a Saad/Hossa for Faulk/Darling (25% Retained) trade:

	Chicago	(Cap)	In Millions		Carolina	(Real Salary)	In Millions
	Faulk	(+) Darling (75%)	(-) Saad	Cap Added	Saad	(+) Hossa	(+) Darling (25% Retention)	(-) Darling Buyout	(-) Faulk	Salary Added
18-19	$ 4.83	$ 3.11	$ 6.00	$ 1.95	$ 6.75	$ 1.00	$ 1.19	$ 1.32	$ 6.00	$ 1.62
19-20	$ 4.83	$ 3.11	$ 6.00	$ 1.95	$ 6.75	$ 1.00	$ 1.03	$ 1.32	$ 6.00	$ 1.46
20-21	-	$ 3.11	$ 6.00	$ (2.89)	$ 6.50	$ 1.00	$ 0.75	$ 1.32	-	$ 6.93
21-22	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	$ 1.32	-	$ (1.32)
22-23	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	$ 1.32	-	$ (1.32)
23-24	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	$ 1.32	-	$ (1.32)
Totals	$ 9.67	$ 9.34	$ 18.00	$ 1.00	$ 20.00	$ 3.00	$ 2.96	$ 7.92	$ 12.00	$ 6.04

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Faulk and Darling would cost the Hawks a little less than $2 mil in cap in each of the next two seasons at that retention level relative to Saad. Carolina obtains a minimal benefit from the Darling/Hossa exchange, but if Dundon is skittish about a buyout psychologically, it would be worth it to be able to start fresh in net.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Moving Saad and taking back the Darling just for Faulk is not worth it for Hawks

2 years of Faulk is not worth further eroding our talent up front and taking back a goalie who is coming off an abysmal season and is not a sure thing to provide Hawks stability if Crawford is out

 

[Dabeast]

Do the Canes really need wingers

 

[deckercky]

In that case, maybe the Hawks know that Crawford is not coming back or greatly question his health in general. That would be the only way I take on Darling at 3 M. If they did, the Hawks would then have Toews and Kane at 10.5 each, Seabrook at 6.8 (FML), and 9 M in goal. I don't think that is the ideal way to construct a team.

$9M in goal isn't that unreasonable in a vacuum (not far from league average, I don't think). The real problem is Toews and Seabrook being overpaid.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Do the Canes really need wingers

Canes need talent at forward. C is preferable, but with Lindholm looking good at C last year, Staal entrenched at the 2C spot, Necas likely joining the team this year, and Aho potentially moving to C (where he finished the last 10 games last season), and Rask on the team, they have some potential flexibility.

 

[Esq]

I'd rather keep Saad.