Rumor: Carolina seeking Saad in a Faulk trade

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If Saads getting moved for a D, it needs to be the right fit. We need someone a lot more responsible in his own end than Faulk. Moving Saad for Faulk opens up more holes than it fills. Still would entertain a deal around the 27th + for Faulk though.

Which for Carolina, opens up more holes than it fills.

 

[goldenbladz1]

Part of Saad's issue might be that he played most of the season (if not all) with Toews.....that guy has sunk like an anchor.

actually that's not the case as Saad was moved around on all lines this year and he was bad no matter what line he was with, whereas when Toews played with Hino and Kane at different points of the year he played well. Toews also played well when paired with Schmaltz

 

[Rick C137]

Which for Carolina, opens up more holes than it fills.

Figured that. Was just saying that’s really the only route that would make sense from a Blackhawks perspective to acquire Faulk. Don’t really think there’s much of a deal to be made for Faulk to Chicago considering team needs.

 

[mouser]

For the record, crunching the numbers on a Saad/Hossa for Faulk/Darling (25% Retained) trade:

	Chicago	(Cap)	In Millions		Carolina	(Real Salary)	In Millions
	Faulk	(+) Darling (75%)	(-) Saad	Cap Added	Saad	(+) Hossa	(+) Darling (25% Retention)	(-) Darling Buyout	(-) Faulk	Salary Added
18-19	$ 4.83	$ 3.11	$ 6.00	$ 1.95	$ 6.75	$ 1.00	$ 1.19	$ 1.32	$ 6.00	$ 1.62
19-20	$ 4.83	$ 3.11	$ 6.00	$ 1.95	$ 6.75	$ 1.00	$ 1.03	$ 1.32	$ 6.00	$ 1.46
20-21	-	$ 3.11	$ 6.00	$ (2.89)	$ 6.50	$ 1.00	$ 0.75	$ 1.32	-	$ 6.93
21-22	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	$ 1.32	-	$ (1.32)
22-23	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	$ 1.32	-	$ (1.32)
23-24	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	$ 1.32	-	$ (1.32)
Totals	$ 9.67	$ 9.34	$ 18.00	$ 1.00	$ 20.00	$ 3.00	$ 2.96	$ 7.92	$ 12.00	$ 6.04

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Faulk and Darling would cost the Hawks a little less than $2 mil in cap in each of the next two seasons at that retention level relative to Saad. Carolina obtains a minimal benefit from the Darling/Hossa exchange, but if Dundon is skittish about a buyout psychologically, it would be worth it to be able to start fresh in net.

Now, how do the numbers work if Carolina retains on Darling and Chicago buys him out after the trade?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Figured that. Was just saying that’s really the only route that would make sense from a Blackhawks perspective to acquire Faulk. Don’t really think there’s much of a deal to be made for Faulk to Chicago considering team needs.

Yeah, I'm guessing it went something like this.

Tom Dundon at the end of the year presser: "Everybody is available if I can get better players. I can't realistically get better players than Aho though."
Don Waddell: "I've told everyone we want to make some changes and we'll listen to offers."

Hawks: "Hey, we'd be interested in Faulk, what do you have in mind? We'd consider taking Darling off your hands too if that helps."
Canes: "Well, for us to move Faulk it would be for a similar age, similar quality player. That would mean Saad."

And that's where we are.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Honestly as a Hawk fan I would rather the Hawks try to bring in Ward as a vet #2 then trade for Darling

Ward is UFA and the offseason G market isn't going to be much

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Now, how do the numbers work if Carolina retains on Darling and Chicago buys him out after the trade?

According to 50.5 (e)(iii)(E), the buyout cost is split between the two teams at whatever percentage was agreed upon in the trade. Therefore:

	Chicago	(Cap)	In Millions		Carolina	(Real Salary)	In Millions
	Faulk	(+) Darling Buyout (75%)	(-) Saad	Cap Added	Saad	(+) Hossa	(+) Darling Buyout (25% Retained)	(-) Darling Buyout	(-) Faulk	Salary Added
18-19	$ 4.83	$ 0.54	$ 6.00	$ (0.63)	$ 6.75	$ 1.00	$ 0.33	$ 1.32	$ 6.00	$ 0.76
19-20	$ 4.83	$ 0.95	$ 6.00	$ (0.22)	$ 6.75	$ 1.00	$ 0.33	$ 1.32	$ 6.00	$ 0.76
20-21		$ 1.85	$ 6.00	$ (4.15)	$ 6.50	$ 1.00	$ 0.33	$ 1.32		$ 6.51
21-22		$ 0.99		$ 0.99			$ 0.33	$ 1.32		$ (0.99)
22-23		$ 0.99		$ 0.99			$ 0.33	$ 1.32		$ (0.99)
23-24		$ 0.99		$ 0.99			$ 0.33	$ 1.32		$ (0.99)
Totals	$ 9.67	$ 6.30	$ 18.00	$ (2.04)	$ 20.00	$ 3.00	$ 1.98	$ 7.92	$ 12.00	$ 5.06

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[thesaadfather]

According to 50.5 (e)(iii)(E), the buyout cost is split between the two teams at whatever percentage was agreed upon in the trade. Therefore:

	Chicago	(Cap)	In Millions		Carolina	(Real Salary)	In Millions
	Faulk	(+) Darling Buyout (75%)	(-) Saad	Cap Added	Saad	(+) Hossa	(+) Darling Buyout (25% Retained)	(-) Darling Buyout	(-) Faulk	Salary Added
18-19	$ 4.83	$ 0.54	$ 6.00	$ (0.63)	$ 6.75	$ 1.00	$ 0.33	$ 1.32	$ 6.00	$ 0.76
19-20	$ 4.83	$ 0.95	$ 6.00	$ (0.22)	$ 6.75	$ 1.00	$ 0.33	$ 1.32	$ 6.00	$ 0.76
20-21		$ 1.85	$ 6.00	$ (4.15)	$ 6.50	$ 1.00	$ 0.33	$ 1.32		$ 6.51
21-22		$ 0.99		$ 0.99			$ 0.33	$ 1.32		$ (0.99)
22-23		$ 0.99		$ 0.99			$ 0.33	$ 1.32		$ (0.99)
23-24		$ 0.99		$ 0.99			$ 0.33	$ 1.32		$ (0.99)
Totals	$ 9.67	$ 6.30	$ 18.00	$ (2.04)	$ 20.00	$ 3.00	$ 1.98	$ 7.92	$ 12.00	$ 5.06

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Honestly, these cap breakdown tables are the most impressive thing about this whole rumor.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Honestly as a Hawk fan I would rather the Hawks try to bring in Ward as a vet #2 then trade for Darling

Ward is UFA and the offseason G market isn't going to be much

you would have thought Bowman learned his lesson on the "Get the gang back together" strategy by now

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Sure, but trading Darling with retention and taking on Hossa really isn't better than a buyout, in fact, it could be worse (depending on the retention and cost of a back-up replacement for Darling).

The issue is the two teams have different goals. Hawks = reduce/minimize cap implications. Canes = reduce/minimize actual cash flow.

I get that. It seems to me that unless the Hawks know that Crow is not likely to be the player he was, they should move on from Darling since the numbers don't work out. If/when Darling is bought out they can see if the price is right.

Unless Carolina/Chicago agree that more needs to added to Faulk in a trade for Saad. Personally, I wouldn't trade Saad straight up for Faulk. If you sweeten the deal by taking Hossa and making Darling affordable by maximum retention, I'd probably be interested.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I get that. It seems to me that unless the Hawks know that Crow is not likely to be the player he was, they should move on from Darling since the numbers don't work out. If/when Darling is bought out they can see if the price is right.

Understandable. Like I said, the Canes and Hawks have different objectives in any Darling/Hossa transaction. Hawks main concern is cap, Canes is cash, thus what is best for 1 team, may not be for the other. If anything happens, it will probably not be optimal for either team.

Unless Carolina/Chicago agree that more needs to added to Faulk in a trade for Saad. Personally, I wouldn't trade Saad straight up for Faulk. If you sweeten the deal by taking Hossa and making Darling affordable by maximum retention, I'd probably be interested.

That's reasonable. There's a contingent of Canes fans that would trade Faulk for Saad straight up either and certainly wouldn't add a sweetener. That's usually how these things go though. This one has been very civil at least.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I’m not sure why someone would leak this to the other Hawks writer, complaining about Carolina overrating its assets. Faulk is a 40 point caliber (generally) Top 4 RHD with 2 years of term of left on his contract at a little under $5 mil. If you take a step back and ignore what Saad was traded for, he is a 55 point caliber (generally) Top 6 W with 3 years of term left on his contract at $6 mil. Despite the one less year of term, Faulk should be of at least equal value on the basis of playing a premium position. It’s hard to argue that it isn’t a fair hockey trade.

It makes you wonder what the Hawks are actually trying to get Carolina to trade Faulk for.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I’m not sure why someone would leak this to the other Hawks writer, complaining about Carolina overrating its assets. Faulk is a 40 point caliber (generally) Top 4 RHD with 2 years of term of left on his contract at a little under $5 mil. If you take a step back and ignore what Saad was traded for, he is a 55 point caliber (generally) Top 6 W with 3 years of term left on his contract at $6 mil. Despite the one less year of term, Faulk should be of at least equal value on the basis of playing a premium position. It’s hard to argue that it isn’t a fair hockey trade.

It makes you wonder what the Hawks are actually trying to get Carolina to trade Faulk for.

I'm guessing it's more a case of the Hawks probably are looking to add NHL players to compete while the still have a window. Moving Saad but adding Faulk is 1 step forward, 1 step back. My guess is they are kicking the tires on Faulk to see if he can be had for futures rather than an NHL player like Saad, which makes sense from a Chicago POV, not necessarily from a Canes POV. Canes are probably looking for an NHL equivalent for Faulk, which make sense for them, but not so much for Chicago.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Why didn't we just keep Panarin? Smh. Faulk is not even the number 1 d in Carolina.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I'm guessing it's more a case of the Hawks probably are looking to add NHL players to compete while the still have a window. Moving Saad but adding Faulk is 1 step forward, 1 step back. My guess is they are kicking the tires on Faulk to see if he can be had for futures rather than an NHL player like Saad, which makes sense from a Chicago POV, not necessarily from a Canes POV. Canes are probably looking for an NHL equivalent for Faulk, which make sense for them, but not so much for Chicago.

I get that. When I initially read what others had said about the article, I thought Carolina would be asking for a young, cost-controlled asset with term like 8OA or Debrincat or Schmaltz. I could understand the frustration at that price point. Brandon Saad, though? That’s not overvaluing; that’s Carolina not wanting to sell low on Faulk. Perhaps that’s overvaluing in the mind of whoever talked to Powers.