TSN: Carolina interested in Kapanen

[Liferleafer]

Post is not about what teams I may or may not cheer for. But you are a die hard Leafs fan so wait...I told you earlier this week, Kapanen's shooting % would drop from 19% as we went from 30 to 82 games. I would doubt he is a 31 goal scorer this year as some tried to sell him as. Thus some of these mythical returns Carolina were going to give up to a still unknown player over a full season were more wishes than reality for Leafs fans. Canes fans on the otherhand have been more fact based in probable trade value here.

Lets just say this....anything you say about the Leafs holds zero water for me. If Kapanen's shooting % goes up again....i will guarantee that you won't mention it....other than than to say he won't maintain it. You live to post nothing but negativity but the Leafs on this site, long time Leafs posters on here know why....but hey, you just keep doing you brother.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

If you think you can get Kapanen signed for 2 mil you are out of your mind.

Kapanen still has one year left after this one before he is eligible for arbitration.
I expect that he will sign a one year "show me" contract, similar to what Mike Hoffman did in Ottawa, to help the Leafs with their cap crunch next year.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Kapanen still has one year left after this one before he is eligible for arbitration.
I expect that he will sign a one year "show me" contract, similar to what Mike Hoffman did in Ottawa, to help the Leafs with their cap crunch next year.

Why would he do that "to help the Leafs with their cap crunch"? Doesn't he have a career to worry about?

I think you're dreaming if you think players will take way less than they deserve just to "help the Leafs". Not happening. It's a business.

 

[VoteForTavares]

Someone worth Pesce?

St Louis is open to dealing and I think Pesce is an acceptable starting point for Tarasenko or ROR. So the player has to be at that level.

Pesce does not equal either of those two players, and if you are gonna say you can add to Pesce to get one of those two then you can add to another player to get PEsce just the same.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

Lets just say this....anything you say about the Leafs holds zero water for me. If Kapanen's shooting % goes up again....i will guarantee that you won't mention it....other than than to say he won't maintain it. You live to post nothing but negativity but the Leafs on this site, long time Leafs posters on here know why....but hey, you just keep doing you brother.

Remember in the Kapanen vs Santini thread where he maintained that "Steve Sabbatini" was a far and away better player than "D+3" Kapanen?

Ah, good times.

 

[GoldiFox]

Pesce does not equal either of those two players, and if you are gonna say you can add to Pesce to get one of those two then you can add to another player to get PEsce just the same.

Pesce is a suitable centerpiece to be added to in order to acquire Tarasenko or ROR.
Kapanen is not a suitable centerpiece to be added to in order to acquire Pesce. He'd be the add.

 

[Liferleafer]

Pesce is a suitable centerpiece to be added to in order to acquire Tarasenko or ROR.
Kapanen is not a suitable centerpiece to be added to in order to acquire Pesce. He'd be the add.

I think your values are a tad off here....but hey, agree to disagree.

 

[paulhiggins]

Pesce is a suitable centerpiece to be added to in order to acquire Tarasenko or ROR.

Maybe if Eugene Melnyk was running the Blues.

Kapanen is not a suitable centerpiece to be added to in order to acquire Pesce. He'd be the add.

All players are "adds" in a trade. Except those that are "subtracts".

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

To leafs

Slavin

To canes

Kapanen
4th
Marner

Thoughts?

 

[Liferleafer]

To leafs

Slavin

To canes

Kapanen
4th
Marner

Thoughts?

A polite pass.

 

[GoldiFox]

Maybe if Eugene Melnyk was running the Blues.

All players are "adds" in a trade. Except those that are "subtracts".

The questions was "who can the Leafs add to Kapanen to get Pesce".

I think everybody, including Leafs fans, knows that it would be a tall order for Toronto to bridge that gap. Toronto's 1st or Bracco is not going to come close. Toronto does not have the futures and does not have the flexibility given their current Cup window to deal away meaningful roster pieces.

I think everybody understands that the Canes have plenty of assets to bridge the gap between Pesce and ROR/Tarasenko. The Canes aren't in their competing window, they can afford to move meaningful roster pieces, they have one extra top-4 RHD, and they have a cupboard full of various top prospects (Martin Necas, Adam Fox, Jake Bean, Haydn Fleury, Janne Kuokkanen, Julien Gauthier, Aleksi Saarela, Nic Roy, etc.).

Let us not pretend like Carolina is incapable of making a deal with a team who is looking to shake up their roster and let us not pretend like Kapanen is the best offer the Canes would get just because Pesce is an outstanding fit in Toronto.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Lets just say this....anything you say about the Leafs holds zero water for me. If Kapanen's shooting % goes up again....i will guarantee that you won't mention it....other than than to say he won't maintain it. You live to post nothing but negativity but the Leafs on this site, long time Leafs posters on here know why....but hey, you just keep doing you brother.

The only thing I said about Kapanen's shooting % is he will not maintain a 19% shooting percentage over a 82 game season when some were saying this makes him a 31 goal scorer a week ago. in 1 week since I posted this he is now 17.6% and has not scored since. I think you were one that was claiming this. We will see who is right at game 82. But I am pretty confident unless you are a Laine caliber type shooter. These things won't happen for most players. This is the problem with speaking to pro leafs fans when discussing trade value. They don't seem to realize 30 games into a season is not a 82 game sample.

 

[BB88]

All that is true. I would drool at having Ellis or Parayko on that blue-line; that would make the surprising decent Leafs defense absolutely rock-solid and ready for a deep playoff run, but yeah, Kapanen would be the sweetener in such a deal for either of those guys; they are true top pairing guys. For Pesce it is probably more of an add to Kapanen instead of Kappy being the add.



Small edit to your comment: it s 22 points for Kapenen now. No, I am not sold on him somehow being a superstar-winger, but at the very least he looks like a 20 goal 50 point 2nd liner who can play PK time (and he really should be since he is a former 1st round pick), which has value, but no, certainly not 1-for-1 with a top pairing D on a non-toxic contract. For example, I don't imagine many Leafs fans would think Kappy alone gets a guy like Paryko; that would be a very lopsided trade.

For a Toronto/Carolina trade involving Kapanen, which is the rumor here, I can't imagine Toronto would be interested in anything other than a defenseman who slots into the top-4, particularly the right side because right now that is literally the only thing Toronto needs, so the piece going to the Leafs in a trade scenario is probably Pesce or Faulk.

Kapanen has 22 today, could hit 50, but he hasn't done that yet.
30 games of solid play at 22y don't raise your value to anywhere near top pair guys, especially considering this player is a winger, the position that holds the least value in C vs D vs W battle.

Nobody should try to force a move for the fun of it.

 

[zeke]

The only thing I said about Kapanen's shooting % is he will not maintain a 19% shooting percentage over a 82 game season when some were saying this makes him a 31 goal scorer a week ago. in 1 week since I posted this he is now 17.6% and has not scored since. I think you were one that was claiming this. We will see who is right at game 82. But I am pretty confident unless you are a Laine caliber type shooter. These things won't happen for most players. This is the problem with speaking to pro leafs fans when discussing trade value. They don't seem to realize 30 games into a season is not a 82 game sample.

and now that you're projecting, what do you think would happen to his offensive totals if he started getting regular PP time?

 

[GoldiFox]

and now that you're projecting, what do you think would happen to his offensive totals if he started getting regular PP time?

Kapanen has 0 PP points in 19.95 PP minutes this year. The top unit has about 60-80 minutes. So multiply 0 times 3-4 if you are projecting.

 

[zeke]

Kapanen has 0 PP points in 19.95 PP minutes this year. The top unit has about 60-80 minutes. So multiply 0 times 3-4 if you are projecting.

So you would project 0pp pts for kappy.

got it.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

and now that you're projecting, what do you think would happen to his offensive totals if he started getting regular PP time?

There is no point in speculating what if's. Again, this is a hypothetical projection argument, not fact based on actual results. But Kapanen has 0 PP points in 19.57 PP minutes this year

Nylander is getting PP time, he is stuck at 2 points in 6 games. I would never use your what if arguments on projection and pace to infer he is a 27 points player. Are you going to be trapped by your own hypocritical arguments here by saying Nylander is this on a small sample of games?

 

[GoldiFox]

So you would project 0pp pts for kappy.

got it.

Your argument is that Kapanen would produce more points with PP time. Babcock has played Kapanen for ~20 minutes of PP time this year. He scored zero points.

What fudge factor should we add to the data to show Kapanen's true PP scoring capabilities? How many points should he have scored in those 20 minutes to give us the real picture?

 

[Liferleafer]

The only thing I said about Kapanen's shooting % is he will not maintain a 19% shooting percentage over a 82 game season when some were saying this makes him a 31 goal scorer a week ago. I think you were one that was claiming this. We will see who is right at game 82. But I am pretty confident unless you are a Laine caliber type shooter. These things won't happen for most players. This is the problem with speaking to pro leafs fans. They don't seem to realize 30 games into a season is not a 82 game sample.

Would love to see proof of this. If you knew anything about me, you'd know that i am in no way an advanced stats/projected pace kind of guy.

 

[Takasugi]

To leafs

Slavin

To canes

Kapanen
4th
Marner

Thoughts?

Is this a joke? I cant tell anymore honestly.

 

[NoName]

Kapanen has 22 today, could hit 50, but he hasn't done that yet.
30 games of solid play at 22y don't raise your value to anywhere near top pair guys, especially considering this player is a winger, the position that holds the least value in C vs D vs W battle.

Nobody should try to force a move for the fun of it.

22 points in 34 games means he needs 28 in 48 to hit 50. While not impossible to happen, he could slack off his current pace substantially and still hit that number. Could he go on a massive cold-streak the rest of the season? Sure, as it could happen for any player, but it isn;'t fair to calculate his value based off the assumption that his scoring will massively dry up, at least not without other data suggesting it will do so.
Again, I don't think anyone is saying he fetches a top-pair dman on a decent contract; those guys are gold, but if you are Toronto the only thing you really need right now is a guy who can play top-4 (2nd pairing caliber would be fine too, which is why Pesce is so talked about). They aren't just going to ship out Kapanen, who plays a useful role on the team, in return for a player back they don't need, which is why if the rumors are true about Carolina enquiring about him then the asking price in return is going to be a top-4 defender, otherwise Toronto just has no reason to move him... which indeed could be the case since these rumors are more often then not just smoke.

 

[zeke]

There is no point in speculating what if's. Again, this is a hypothetical projection argument, not fact based on actual results. But Kapanen has 0 PP points in 19.95 PP minutes this year

Nylander is getting PP time, he is stuck at 2 points in 6 games. I would never use your what if arguments on projection and pace to infer he is a 27 points player. Are you going to be trapped by your own hypocritical arguments here by saying Nylander is this on a small sample of games?

your entire argument is a what if - "what if his shooting percentage slips?"

and it is a reasonable what if. you are correct in projecting a slip in shooting percentage. he is at 17.6% shooting percentage this year - at his career 13.5sh%, he'd have 3 less goals and points, and be at a 22gl/46pt pace. This is a very reasonable what if, and no leaf fans disagree with it.

but there is another reasonable what if - "what if he got regular PP time?"

there is a reasonable projection for this what if too, but you refuse to deal with it.

 

[NoName]

To leafs


Aho
Pesce
Svechnikov

To canes

Brown

Thoughts?

That is better


Seriously though, I don't see a lop-sided NHL18 style trade happening either way here.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Your argument is that Kapanen would produce more points with PP time. Babcock has played Kapanen for ~20 minutes of PP time this year. He scored zero points.

What fudge factor should we add to the data to show Kapanen's true PP scoring capabilities? How many points should he have scored in those 20 minutes to give us the real picture?

there's no such thing as a meaningful 20 minute sample, so that question is pointless

 

[GoldiFox]

22 points in 34 games means he needs 28 in 48 to hit 50. While not impossible to happen, he could slack off his current pace substantially and still hit that number. Could he go on a massive cold-streak the rest of the season? Sure, as it could happen for any player, but it isn;'t fair to calculate his value based off the assumption that his scoring will massively dry up, at least not without other data suggesting it will do so.
Again, I don't think anyone is saying he fetches a top-pair dman on a decent contract; those guys are gold, but if you are Toronto the only thing you really need right now is a guy who can play top-4 (2nd pairing caliber would be fine too, which is why Pesce is so talked about). They aren't just going to ship out Kapanen, who plays a useful role on the team, in return for a player back they don't need, which is why if the rumors are true about Carolina enquiring about him then the asking price in return is going to be a top-4 defender, otherwise Toronto just has no reason to move him... which indeed could be the case since these rumors are more often then not just smoke.

There is no rumor that the Canes inquired about Kapanen. There never was.

LeBrun stated on a TSN panel that he believe the Canes had discussed Kapanen "internally". The Canes are looking for forward talent and they have likely spoken about dozens of players internally. LeBrun specifically stated that the Canes had not talked to Toronto about an offer. It was also clarified the next day that Carolina has been talking to multiple teams. It was also reported that the Canes already had a deal in place with a Western Conference team that fell apart at the last minute.