Pesce and Hanifin entered the league in the exact same year and are 2 years apart in age. Interesting mindset to consider one peaked and one with vast future potential.
TSN: Carolina interested in Kapanen
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Pesce and Hanifin entered the league in the exact same year and are 2 years apart in age. Interesting mindset to consider one peaked and one with vast future potential.
Hanifin isn't just a shiny new toy. He's a 21 year old star D in the making. What does a poll prove? I think you know the answer to that. It gives people a little outside perspective on how other fanbases view players. Being a fan of one team you naturally overvalue your own players even if you try to be objective about it. I just don't think the masses would agree that Pesce is the more valuable asset moving forward.
I mean, that was just horrible luck. I doubt many people would have called both of those guys having such break-out seasons.
X66
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Carolina is going to be extra stingy on trades after getting ripped in Lindholm and Skinner trades.
Might not make the most sense to trade with them now.
Might not make the most sense to trade with them now.
Except one player is 24 and the other is 21. Seems obvious I know, but do I really need to explain how age, potential and development go hand in hand when dealing with young players?
One is 21 years old (turning 22 in a month), was drafted 5th overall and is coming off a 32 point season and currently has 15 points in 35 games, the other is 24 years old, a former 3rd rounder, had 19 points last season and currently has 7 points in 23 games.
Hanafin is younger, was the more highly regarded prospect and has produced substantially more offense with solid underlying numbers... and his contract is only 950k more. Yes he is way more valuable then Pesce, and as a Leafs fan (playing Armchair GM) right now, I can tell you that I would be willing to offer Calgary way more for Hanifin then I would offer Carolina for Pesce.
They are 2 years and a couple months apart. Pesce rose through the ranks as a 3rd round pick to develop into what he is. Hanifin has walked into his role being a top prospect his entire life.
I’ve only watched hundreds of games that Pesce and Hanifin have played on the same team under the same circumstances with the same Pro experience. What would I know about their development?
The Winter Soldier
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I know a person's lost an argument when all they can come back with is what if Kapanen got regular PP mins. What if suggests a player has not achieved in real situations. I prefer to look at Kapanen's 19:57 TOI PP this year. How many PP points does he have? But if you want to make what if a fact here, I am sure Pesce could score more pts if he had more PP mins himself. No one carries much weight in what if scenarios. Because they are not facts. They are what ifs. Maybe or more likely maybe nots to adults.
That’s one opinion.
I doubt you’d find one Canes fan that would swap Pesce for Hanifin straight up. But what do we know, we just watched the two of them play on the same defense for 200+ games.
I'm not saying Pesce isn't a good defenseman or that he's peaked. But come on, you know how development typically works. Of course the odds are Hanifin is going to end up being the better player going forward, if he's not already there now. Two years and a couple months age difference when dealing with 20 year old kids is massive.
I would be very surprised if many people taking an unbiased view of the situation would choose Pesce over Hanifin 1-for-1; the stats, player ages and reputations all seem to paint a clear picture but you are entitled to your opinion. However, fair warning is that most other people on HFboard will not be willing to extend a similar sort of trade offer for Pesce that they would have for Hanifin.
I used should for a reason.
Carolina needs and wants a forward. That's obvious. Pesce is available for something less than a gross overpay right now. However, the motivation to move him for an underpay shouldn't exist. Carolina's short-term need for a forward should not bleed into long-term decision making.
Pesce is best asset in the deal in a trade for Kapanen. Therefore, Pesce shouldn't be traded for Kapanen.
bleedgreen
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You seem to think I'm not a fan of Hanifin. I am? He's just as "valuable" to me on your team as mine. I didn't want him traded. This comical concept Flames fans have that as soon as these two put on orange jerseys they became 25-50% better is so over the top as you say "overvaluing your own players" it's ridiculous. Way more than Canes fans, Flames fans can't just say we traded good players for good players - yours have to be amazing and so much more than uneducated Canes fans could conceive.
I didn't reply to the concept of trade value, I was replying to you telling us how much more amazing Hanifin is now. He's pretty much the same dude, playing for a much better team. He's a little more experienced and a little stronger, that's it. My poll comment was about how ridiculous the concept of a poll on hf meaning something is.
I could care less about arguing Pesce's value, I was done halfway through the Nylander topic on that subject.
ps wow.....did you really create a poll?
CheMxDawG
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Hanifin got better when he started playing with an offense that can score and a defensive partner that isn't TVR or Faulk. Isn't it funny how moving from a team that has below average scoring to a team with above average scoring can affect stats?
His skating is still his best skill mixed in with some silky mitts and a decent shot but nothing crazy, but his defense isn't anything to write home about.
Dunno how this Hanifin to Pesce comparable started in a thread about Kapanen.
zeke
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no you don't.
No it doesn't.
As pointed out already, even adjusting down to normal shooting percentage, he's still produced at a 20gl/45pt clip at even strength, which is 1st line production.
again, your entire shooting percentage argument is a what if scenario.
Why are either of the bolded statements true? I realize nobody on these forums is ever on board when their team isn't the team getting the best player in a deal, but that's just not how it works in real life. One team always gives up the better player. Of course the possibility exists that Carolina would trade Pesce for a lesser forward + another asset.
You seem to think I'm not a fan of Hanifin. I am? He's just as "valuable" to me on your team as mine. I didn't want him traded. This comical concept Flames fans have that as soon as these two put on orange jerseys they became 25-50% better is so over the top as you say "overvaluing your own players" it's ridiculous. Way more than Canes fans, Flames fans can't just say we traded good players for good players - yours have to be amazing and so much more than uneducated Canes fans could conceive.
I didn't reply to the concept of trade value, I was replying to you telling us how much more amazing Hanifin is now. He's pretty much the same dude, playing for a much better team. He's a little more experienced and a little stronger, that's it. My poll comment was about how ridiculous the concept of a poll on hf meaning something is.
I could care less about arguing Pesce's value, I was done halfway through the Nylander topic on that subject.
ps wow.....did you really create a poll?
The bolded is not true. Look at Hanifin's quality of competition this year compared to last year. He's facing significantly tougher competition this year and his numbers haven't dropped a bit. What that usually spells is a big improvement in my books. Normally when you start giving a player tougher competition, everything else goes down as a result which isn't happening with him.
Liferleafer
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bleedgreen
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Stop man. I watch your games. He is what you bolded in my post. Fancy stat it anyway you like. Using last years Canes stats for a defenseman.....cmon. They had no rhyme or reason the entire season, Faulk and Hanifin didn't work and Peter's spent the whole year trying find anything that made sense past Pesce and Slavin. And failed. That's not Hanifin's improvement, that's him being saved from the Canes and placed on a good team with a very good partner. Last years usage had as much to do with Faulk as it did Hanifin.
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