Player Discussion Carey Price - The Non All-Star Edition

[Cobra Commander]

All you have to do is put your foot down. Everything flows from there. It's that easy.

Just because you lack the confidence for something doesn’t mean you should project that on others. I can do anything Bergevin does better than him except playing hockey. He’s a moron and a crappy GM. Just the consensus opinions on this boards would make a much much better GM than he is.

 

[azcanuck]

Chicken or the egg. Has Price lost his focus because his D isn't playing well, or is the D overcompensating because they know Price isn't playing well? Somebody's head clearly isn't in the game.

Just watch the games. Price sucks. He relys on his positioning to stop the puck. Feel free to stick an extremity out once in a while. Plus he just looks unfocused. Blank stare like he just saw a ghost.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

You’re acting like being a GM requires some kind of magical skill. They aren’t Doctors. Some of these GMs are actually bad at their jobs. Toronto hired some 27 year old nobody. I’m confident I could swing it. It’s not brain surgery.

Could I be an NHL coach? No way, not even possible.

Could I be an NHL GM? Definitely

No you wouldnt. The dunning kruger syndrome is strong on this one. You are lacking skills / credentials to be an NHL GM and its scary you think you'd be good enough. You need to realise that youre not as good as you think you are, and that applies to like 80+% of the population.

 

[azcanuck]

That's the issue. No one is expecting him to churn out vezina numbers behind this team, just stop the ones you're supposed to and give your team a chance to win. He's not doing that consistently this year and it's frustrating.

39th in GAA and 40th in SP.

Is that a premier goalie or below average one?

 

[Cobra Commander]

No you wouldnt. The dunning kruger syndrome is strong on this one. You are lacking skills / credentials to be an NHL GM and its scary you think you'd be good enough. You need to realise that youre not as good as you think you are, and that applies to like 80+% of the population.

What skills am I lacking? You know me personally? I agree that I have no credentials, so what, I would hire good hockey minds to help me. Bergevin must be some kind of magical wizard in your eyes.

 

[Frank Drebin]

39th in GAA and 40th in SP.

Is that a premier goalie or below average one?

Worse stats than Mackenzie blackwood. It's anyone going to try and convince me that the devils are actually a better team than the Habs?

 

[Cobra Commander]

Pretty much , im such a hockey nerd. Maybe paper side id be a bit lost at the start but doing the job that Bergevin is doing right now at around 4m a year , it's a joke. He's not doing anything
Seriously people thinks because they are GMs or were old hockey players think they are smarter than anyone else or some****. Im sure if the GM job was open for everybody , the person hired would be a ****ing no name in the sphere of hockey and would probably do 5 times a better job than Bergevin right now atleast.

Same for the president of hockey operations , such a ''meme'' job. His job is just to fire the GM when its the time , call meetings and thats all.

Such hard jobs woah. Also just looking at the fact how dumb Bergevin is , you dont need to go at school to be a GM. The dude cant barely speak english or french. The dude cant even do a properly gym schedule , just look at his damn chicken legs.

Some people can’t help but put any person of authority on a pedestal, I call those people sheep. Many of us here would make better GMs than him if given the opportunity, obviously getting an opportunity is unrealistic. But it’s not brain surgery or theoretical physics, it’s hockey.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's the issue. No one is expecting him to churn out vezina numbers behind this team, just stop the ones you're supposed to and give your team a chance to win. He's not doing that consistently this year and it's frustrating.

Just looked at the two games with the goals. I will grant you that last Florida goal is terrible. There's no way he should let that one in.

Take a look at these goals though. It is chaos in front of him. It's a series of shots from the slot, breakaways and cross ice passes.




When I see that, I don't see a goalie problem. I see a team that has no clue what to do in it's own end.

If I'm a rival GM, I wouldn't be concerned with Price at all and I'd try to add him if I were a contender without a stud goalie. Colorado is the spot where I think he could really help.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Some people can’t help but put any person of authority on a pedestal, I call those people sheep. Many of us here would make better GMs than him if given the opportunity, obviously getting an opportunity is unrealistic. But it’s not brain surgery or theoretical physics, it’s hockey.

I'm 100% certain I wouldn't do any worse, but that's all I've got. The good ones are few and far between, but there are good ones and I don't think anyone can be a good one.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Just watch the games. Price sucks. He relys on his positioning to stop the puck. Feel free to stick an extremity out once in a while. Plus he just looks unfocused. Blank stare like he just saw a ghost.

Yes, please watch the games. Look at the clips I just posted. Tell me that is not chaos in front of him.

 

[azcanuck]

Yes, please watch the games. Look at the clips I just posted. Tell me that is not chaos in front of him.

And what NHL goalie is not facing chaos in front of the net?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Worse stats than Mackenzie blackwood. It's anyone going to try and convince me that the devils are actually a better team than the Habs?

The Habs are about average for shots against. But the Canadiens have been at or near the bottom at letting in close shots over the past three years.

That is going to murder any goalie's numbers.

And what NHL goalie is not facing chaos in front of the net?

As you said... go watch some games. Not every team is this bad man. We are at the bottom for allowing close shots. Our club sucks at allowing cross ice passes and we're a basket case in our own zone.

Screaming "but his numbers suck" is all well and good. But when you look at the goals we allow, it's a clown show in front of our netminders. We can't even put in a backup because we know it's an automatic loss.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Just looked at the two games with the goals. I will grant you that last Florida goal is terrible. There's no way he should let that one in.

Take a look at these goals though. It is chaos in front of him. It's a series of shots from the slot, breakaways and cross ice passes.




When I see that, I don't see a goalie problem. I see a team that has no clue what to do in it's own end.

If I'm a rival GM, I wouldn't be concerned with Price at all and I'd try to add him if I were a contender without a stud goalie. Colorado is the spot where I think he could really help.

The third goal, you don't think thats a leaky rebound? How about the 4th one that went through him? Perhaps we just have different expectations for goalies. Not going to win too many games with your goalies letting in shots like those, chaos in front of the net or not.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The third goal, you don't think thats a leaky rebound? How about the 4th one that went through him? Perhaps we just have different expectations for goalies. Not going to win too many games with your goalies letting in shots like those, chaos in front of the net or not.

I'm not saying he couldn't play all/any of those better. But cripes man, he gets no support. Leaky rebound? Okay... why doesn't his D ever seem to get to the rebounds first? He's left to the wolves on most nights.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Just looked at the two games with the goals. I will grant you that last Florida goal is terrible. There's no way he should let that one in.

Take a look at these goals though. It is chaos in front of him. It's a series of shots from the slot, breakaways and cross ice passes.




When I see that, I don't see a goalie problem. I see a team that has no clue what to do in it's own end.

If I'm a rival GM, I wouldn't be concerned with Price at all and I'd try to add him if I were a contender without a stud goalie. Colorado is the spot where I think he could really help.

Half of those goals against Tampa were just brutal. There were a couple bad ones against Florida too.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I'm not saying he couldn't play all/any of those better. But cripes man, he gets no support. Leaky rebound? Okay... why doesn't his D ever seem to get to the rebounds first? He's left to the wolves on most nights.

His job isn't easy. No one is suggesting it is. But you're agreeing with the point I'm making. He can be better, and he needs to be better. Soft plays like those from him are costing us valuable points.

 

[Kriss E]

The backend sucks. The offence has remained strong. 9 goals in two games is good. 11 goals against is embarrassing, especially when we had the lead.

What's weird is that last year's team wasn't any better, yet Price was terrific from late November onwards. This year's Price continues to go back and forth between Vezina-level and Lost In Space, which at this point in the season is a bad sign. The question is why. Is Price frustrated with Bergevin and the roster, or simply with himself? If Price is unhappy with the direction the team is taking, it would reverberate up to Molson's office. Nobody has been part of the organization longer than Price and you'd think his voice carries weight.

Well..if you wanna play that, then is the offense actually strong? Or is it just because they mostly disregarded defensive assignments? Even our alleged ''stellar'' pairing of Weber-Chiarot, they often look lost and disorganized, they blow coverages even in front of the net, and let's not talk about the forwards inside our zone.
So ya, we have some decent offensive guys up front, that cheat a lot, but also the league scoring average keeps increasing, it's up from last season again so far. And Goals allowed are also up.
But yes, when you score 4-5 goals, you'd expect to win. It's not like we're doing this on a daily though.
This is a very unusual result for Julien lead base. Even with bad defensive groups, Julien's team will at worst be average but right now we are 7th in most GA/GP.

I'm sure Price is frustrated and I doubt he likes the direction or make up of this team, but I don't think that's what is happening. He' just going through his own funk, happens to everyone.

 

[Vijo Morganstein]

I don't particularly care how the team does this year because we aren't a contender. What worries me is the prospect of Price's contract plus his play moving him into unmovable territory (the NMC being the stupid cherry on top there - say what you want about the guy at the top of this page but you'd have to be the most agreeable person in the world to get bent over in negotiations like that).

We need Price to be an asset we can trade, not a liability that we have to attach pieces to just to move. He's trending towards liability at the moment which worries me, and his play has been as uninspired as the sequel trilogy.

 

[Cobra Commander]

His job isn't easy. No one is suggesting it is. But you're agreeing with the point I'm making. He can be better, and he needs to be better. Soft plays like those from him are costing us valuable points.

Price doesn’t care anymore, he hasn’t cared since the ridiculous French media made up stories about him and his wife. He’s a sensitive guy, he doesn’t have that fire in him, he’s at his worst when he’s angry. He even snubbed the fans for awhile. If he’s not in his bubble and everyone isn’t kissing his butt he stops caring. He doesn’t love what he does anymore that’s the problem, he’s tuning out his feelings to protect himself. He’s no Patrick Roy.

 

[Habs Icing]

Carey Price:

The fake emotion edition
The stare down edition
Its not his fault edition
Blame the GM edition
We owe him edition
6 more years edition

You forgot he has garbage in front of him edition.

 

[Habs Icing]

Usually he kills it in Jan

Kills what? Hope.

 

[Milhouse40]

Nobody is asking that of him though. We just want him to stop costing us games and points, I don't think that's too much to ask.

We could have easily left Florida with 3 or 4 points with competent goaltending, instead we leave with zero.

Look at his sv% in his losses lately:

5-6 fla .824
4-5 tbl .833
3-4 edm .846
0-2 det .900
2-3 Bos .912
4-6 njd .853
1-8 bos .545
5-6 nyr .824
2-5 cbj .808

In 7 of his last 9 losses, he's put up less than a .855%.

That means for every 30 shots he sees he's letting in around 4.5 goals. Compared to even league average (.910; 3.7ga per 30.)

I see a few games on that list where he was so bad he cost us points.

No one is asking him to drag a bottom 5 team into a playoff position because we're not a bottom 5 team. We're a playoff bubble team - and it would be nice if our franchise goalie merely helped keep us in the hunt, rather than turn a playoff bubble team into a bottom 10 team because of consistent bad goaltending performances that cost the team crucial points.

If you evaluate a goalie purely on stats, and basic one like that…and without context on top of it….then we have a long long way to go in evaluating goalies.
Rask is .882 in his losses.
Holtby is .861 in his losses.
Fleury is .860 in his losses.
That's how hockey works, you know.
No goalie have good stats in losses and got nothing to do with league average.
You want Price to have less lost? Then it's a long shot from being about him.

He cost us point cause for you, a bad goal cost us games. Newsflash, goalie let in bad goals all the time, almost every games and that's all of them.
Just look at the goals we score, so many goals you would consider a bad goal from Price, we scored them about every game and more than once per game.
Most teams can overcome those goals….we can't cause we're not a good team, if we were a good team, those goals wouldn't matter that much.

You blame Price for how many points this season?
Let's just say that 8 points would put this team at the top 5 of the NHL and the Habs are not even close to be playing that well this season to be there.
Do we consider some points that our back-up lost for this team in there also?
Doesn't leave that many points for Price…….

And i can show you 8 points that Price stole for this team this season being either the 1st or 2nd star of the game (those no one likes to talk about them), so all in all, we are not a underperforming team because of our goaltending. You just want Price to save this sorry ass team from themselves.

We are a low-end bubble team.
We have one the 3 worst defensive squad in the NHL.
We are by far the smallest forward group in the NHL
We don't have one player in the top 25 of the NHL in goals, assists or points.

 

[Habs Icing]

I understand this point. We're not up against the cap, we're not losing players because of his deal, so what does it matter what he's getting paid?

When it starts to matter is when he stops playing like he is paid to do, which is to be a good NHL starter.

Are we supposed to give up assets to try and acquire a goalie who actually helps us win games? Do we pay this duo 16 or 17m a year? Do we eat his salary for the next six years?

His sv% since the start of the 17-18 season is .908 over 147 games. That's fkin horrible, and it's not all on our defense.

Actually, he is being paid to be a top NHL starter, not just a good one. Many are seeing that ship sail into the fog yet blame our defense.

We don't have a great defense but we have a good one despite what many posters claim. Price's numbers are worrisome. MB should look to trade him. Hopefully, word of his demise hasn't got around yet. But I think MB will hold unto Price.

 

[Milhouse40]

I own a window and door installation business and worked construction framing houses for many many years, I’m sure he’s never suffered like I have apart from his knee injury. I’ll never have pitty for a hockey player making kabillions of dollars sorry. I’ve seen the guys in my industry break their backs for years in the hot sun just to end up with nothing at the end, so please spare me.

And what the hell that got to do with hockey and Price….and Playing 60 minutes a night compare to players who 15-20 minutes a night?

But that shows that a lot of your criticism towards Price got to do with him earning a lot money…..

 

[azcanuck]

Price doesn’t care anymore, he hasn’t cared since the ridiculous French media made up stories about him and his wife. He’s a sensitive guy, he doesn’t have that fire in him, he’s at his worst when he’s angry. He even snubbed the fans for awhile. If he’s not in his bubble and everyone isn’t kissing his butt he stops caring. He doesn’t love what he does anymore that’s the problem, he’s tuning out his feelings to protect himself. He’s no Patrick Roy.

How do we ever know that?
We speculate based on outer appearance.
For all we know he goes home to cry every night (that would be speculation).
I might take that pose to protect himself in a fishbowl environment.
he's done well for a long time.
At his age there should be no reason he cant perform at a high level.
just see Marc Andre and Lunqvist.