Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 "Season" Pt. 5

[Silky mitts]

Ovy knows his role. He survived Semin moving on. Non-issue.

It’s not like the Caps wouldn’t be spending to the cap.

They’re going to spend to the cap because they’re going to make their moves and sign Ovy with the remainder. If they’re really going to wait until after 7/1 to sign him, especially since they’ve already had negotiations and said this is what we have to spend and we’re all in every year for the rest of your career, you can’t trade Kuzy for futures and sign Krejci to replace him unless the captain signs off.

Oshie? He's the anti-Kuzy. How do those two guys even end up in the same sentence around this? He's not being moved.

Just as another guy that maximizes the Caps chances for another Cup in the next few years where recently TEB and posters are like the Caps need to move on from this guy regardless of return.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

They’re going to spend to the cap because they’re going to make their moves and sign Ovy with the remainder. If they’re really going to wait until after 7/1 to sign him, especially since they’ve already had negotiations and said this is what we have to spend and we’re all in every year for the rest of your career, you can’t trade Kuzy for futures and sign Krejci to replace him unless the captain signs off.


Just as another guy that maximizes the Caps chances for another Cup in the next few years where recently TEB and posters are like the Caps need to move on from this guy regardless of return.

I’m sure he’ll get a call and an overview of the plan.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That was a good play but I'm trying to look at a bigger picture. It's dangerous to rely on the guys who make those flashy plays once in while and then can't string together two shifts where he'd look like a decent contributor for his linemates work. If Mantha can do this on a regular basis or not even exactly this - just be able to put together a solid picture of what he's as player in a positive way then that would be good. So far I'm struggling to understand what to expect from him because his game looks quite inconsistent from shift to shift.

maybe the problem is your expectations? /shrug

You want instant fit, instant greatness to short term validate the trade cost justification. Just like us all, you have half the picture and no feel for the room or what the private interactions were like with Vrana and team or staff, maybe even salary #s from the agent, to necessitate a trade now.

 

[Melkor]

You believe based on what information? Got a reliable link? We heard MacLellan say it in his presser.

I believe in that to more or less the same extent as you believe in "If the deal was the same all along, Detroit didnt say yes 10 times out of 10". You have zero evidence it was the same yet you paint it like I'm wrong saying Detroit says yes any time. Let's be honest: you have no evidence that I'm wrong on anything I just said. It's called an opinion for a reason. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Melkor]

maybe the problem is your expectations? /shrug

Maybe but I don't think so. I'm not expecting him setting the world on fire. Just be more consistent in his performance.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Maybe but I don't think so. I'm not expecting him setting the world on fire. Just be more consistent in his performance.

Someone else pointed out a great play and you called it good and then dismissively shit on it. Expectations?


The guy is a difference maker, a positive most nights from my POV. That’s at least an immediate short term win for me.

 

[Melkor]

You want instant fit.

Hard to reach that but not impossible. History remembers instant fits and whatever reasons behind the trade were the fans have the right to expect the fit in a short period of time - again - considering the price. I said this when the trade happened: all eyes are going to be on Mantha the rest of this season. He won't be able to fly under the radar and just quietly try to acclimate with the team. That was a blockbuster and he'll need to show up very soon. We'll see if he can.

Someone else pointed out a great play and you called it good and then dismissively shit on it. Expectations?


The guy is a difference maker, a positive most nights from my POV. That’s at least an immediate short term win for me.

I didn't shit on it. I just don't tend to go wow from one play whatever that play was. I respect if people have different perception of that though.

 

[Calicaps]

Maybe but I don't think so. I'm not expecting him setting the world on fire. Just be more consistent in his performance.

Again, he's got 6 seasons of bad coaching and bad habits to unlearn. Gonna take more than a dozen games to replace all of that. His first few games were probably pure adrenalin. The last several have been pretty crazy with injuries, controversy, and tons of emotional stuff in the room, all while trying to learn the team systems and find his optimal role. Inconsistency is a natural place for him to be right now. And even still he's not been a liability.

I'd invite you to review the Oshie thread for some of the hot takes on his early games as a Cap.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Hard to reach that but not impossible. History remembers instant fits and whatever reasons behind the trade were the fans have the right to expect the fit in a short period of time - again - considering the price. I said this when the trade happened: all eyes are going to be on Mantha the rest of this season. He won't be able to fly under the radar and just quietly try to acclimate with the team. That was a blockbuster and he'll need to show up very soon. We'll see if he can.

I didn't shit on it. I just don't tend to go wow from one play whatever that play was. I respect if people have different perception of that though.

History remembers Championship winning GMs that have patience when appropriate. And it’s never about one play, but impact plays matter a lot more in the W column.

 

[tenken00]

Maybe but I don't think so. I'm not expecting him setting the world on fire. Just be more consistent in his performance.

The Capitals as a whole have been anything but consistent since he joined. I don't think the lines have even been the same for more than 3 games

Not anyone's fault. It's just that guys have been coming in and out of lineups for the past month. And as the new guy, must be a whirlwind for Mantha.

 

[Melkor]

Again, he's got 6 seasons of bad coaching and bad habits to unlearn. Gonna take more than a dozen games to replace all of that. His first few games were probably pure adrenalin. The last several have been pretty crazy with injuries, controversy, and tons of emotional stuff in the room, all while trying to learn the team systems and find his optimal role. Inconsistency is a natural place for him to be right now. And even still he's not been a liability.

I'd invite you to review the Oshie thread for some of the hot takes on his early games as a Cap.

Hell the reaction to just simply wanting him to fix some issues in his game is too sensitive. I didn't say I don't like the guy and I didn't even call the trade a bad one. I just said the team definitely will need more from him in the postseason. It's not like I just discovered America, seems quite obvious there's some stuff to work on there.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Again, he's got 6 seasons of bad coaching and bad habits to unlearn. Gonna take more than a dozen games to replace all of that. His first few games were probably pure adrenalin. The last several have been pretty crazy with injuries, controversy, and tons of emotional stuff in the room, all while trying to learn the team systems and find his optimal role. Inconsistency is a natural place for him to be right now. And even still he's not been a liability.

I'd invite you to review the Oshie thread for some of the hot takes on his early games as a Cap.

wow, I might need to go search for that thread. As always I just hope I didn’t embarrass myself lol….

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Hell the reaction to just simply wanting him to fix some issues in his game is too sensitive. I didn't say I don't like the guy and I didn't even call the trade a bad one. I just said the team definitely will need more from him in the postseason. It's not like I just discovered America, seems quite obvious there's some stuff to work on there.

nobody is saying his game can’t improve, but you seem to be highlighting it when all players have some things to work on lol….

just accept that this trade will not be fully weighed and measured after this one postseason run. He could very well “show up” and we still lose.

 

[Melkor]

History remembers Championship winning GMs that have patience when appropriate.

I'm gonna be honest: I don't care what was happening behind the closed doors and what personal relationships were between Vrana, Maclellan, the team, Yzerman and the boys. All that soap opera is a waste of time really. That's really none of anyone's business nor anyone's gonna tell us what wxactly was going on. What's our business is what they deliver on the ice. I just said what I didn't like to this point and that's it. Agree to disagree.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm gonna be honest: I don't care what was happening behind the closed doors and what personal relationships were between Vrana, Maclellan, the team, Yzerman and the boys. All that soap opera is a waste of time really. That's really none of anyone's business nor anyone's gonna tell us what wxactly was going on. What's our business is what they deliver on the ice. I just said what I didn't like to this point and that's it. Agree to disagree.

Yeah you’re right, it is a waste of time, but humans, and if you’re managing a team, that shit really matters and can royally F shit up. Maybe GMBM saw enough?

 

[Melkor]

Yeah you’re right, it is a waste of time, but humans, and if you’re managing a team, that shit really matters and can royally F shit up. Maybe GMBM saw enough?

Maybe, I personally was glad Vrana was gone, I wanted him out for the last 2 years at least. But his market value was kinda high anyways so If you bring someone instead the guy should be a difference maker. Mantha definitely has the tools, I just want him to be more engaged. There's nothing fundamentally he lacks from my POV. Pretty much everything is there, just need to be a bit more active on the feet and have a better feel for his mates which - I understand - takes some time. The question is how long is that time for him.

 

[Calicaps]

wow, I might need to go search for that thread. As always I just hope I didn’t embarrass myself lol….

Good stuff throughout
Confirmed with Link: - Oshie to Caps for Brouwer/Copley/2016 3rd
Player Discussion - TJ Oshie
Confirmed with Link: - Oshie stays with caps (8 years, 5.75 mil aav)

 

[Melkor]

Good stuff throughout
Confirmed with Link: - Oshie to Caps for Brouwer/Copley/2016 3rd
Player Discussion - TJ Oshie
Confirmed with Link: - Oshie stays with caps (8 years, 5.75 mil aav)

Damn Carlzner was really fed up with Ovechkin at the time lmao.

 

[txpd]

I'm gonna be honest: I don't care what was happening behind the closed doors and what personal relationships were between Vrana, Maclellan, the team, Yzerman and the boys. All that soap opera is a waste of time really.

Hockey is a sport where you have to trust the guy next you. You are saying that its not? Are you saying that coaching and game plans are just suggestions? Do you believe that the team's dedication and appreciation for TJ Oshie is of no value?

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

If the players and coach kicked Kuz off the team what can you do?

 

[bur and 666 others]

Again, he's got 6 seasons of bad coaching and bad

I'd invite you to review the Oshie thread for some of the hot takes on his early games as a Cap.

I'm sorry, but Oshie was always a win trade for us. No matter how he would end up. Back then we didn't believe we got him for peanuts and the Blues fans were pissed off thinking that GMMB had some dirt on their GM. While Mantha's price was quite steep and I don't see what justifies that. In his first games people were saying he was a skilled Tom Wilson, I was skeptical (simply because you don't trade skilled Tom Wilsons), but now he's quiet. Not completely no show, he's still productive, but on the same level as Vrana.

 

[HTFN]

I'm sorry, but Oshie was always a win trade for us. No matter how he would end up. Back then we didn't believe we got him for peanuts and the Blues fans were pissed off thinking that GMMB had some dirt on their GM. While Mantha's price was quite steep and I don't see what justifies that. In his first games people were saying he was a skilled Tom Wilson, I was skeptical (simply because you don't trade skilled Tom Wilsons), but now he's quiet. Not completely no show, he's still productive, but on the same level as Vrana.

nobody paying any attention to hockey ever said that.

Some people said they wanted or expected him to play like Tom Wilson at his size, but nobody with any credibility was representing him that way.

and, as mentioned above, we've already seen how he's different. His passing is better and more accurate, and he doesn't constantly lose the puck in the cycle trying to do "a move" first, he just puts a guy on his shoulder and moves the puck.

 

[Calicaps]

I'm sorry, but Oshie was always a win trade for us. No matter how he would end up. Back then we didn't believe we got him for peanuts and the Blues fans were pissed off thinking that GMMB had some dirt on their GM. While Mantha's price was quite steep and I don't see what justifies that. In his first games people were saying he was a skilled Tom Wilson, I was skeptical (simply because you don't trade skilled Tom Wilsons), but now he's quiet. Not completely no show, he's still productive, but on the same level as Vrana.

Lots of folks thought the Oshie trade would be a wash, where he wouldn't be a big upgrade over the Leader of Men. Mantha is far better than Vrana away from the puck or along the walls already. And we can reasonably expect his production to increase as he gets more comfortable with the team and acclimated to the Caps style of hockey.

 

[txpd]

I believe in that to more or less the same extent as you believe in "If the deal was the same all along, Detroit didnt say yes 10 times out of 10". You have zero evidence it was the same yet you paint it like I'm wrong saying Detroit says yes any time. Let's be honest: you have no evidence that I'm wrong on anything I just said. It's called an opinion for a reason. I'll leave it at that.

I didnt state than anything was the case. I said IF.

 

[txpd]

Lots of folks thought the Oshie trade would be a wash, where he wouldn't be a big upgrade over the Leader of Men. Mantha is far better than Vrana away from the puck or along the walls already. And we can reasonably expect his production to increase as he gets more comfortable with the team and acclimated to the Caps style of hockey.

The leader of men