Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 "Season" Pt. 5

[hb12xchamps]

This place in general just has the mind of a goldfish.

I was unhappy with Kuznetsov at the start of the season despite his advanced stats apparently looking good, but he's been great the majority of the season.

Then what, he looks mediocre for like 3 games and everyone here starts trashing him again? Weird

There’s always going to be a whipping boy. Sammy, Kuzy and lately Mantha are those guys now

 

[Silky mitts]

Have to look at any move of Oshie of Kuzy through the WWOW lens, what would Ovy want? Can’t ask Ovy to take under $10M then spring a Kuzy trade on him.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

There's nothing I heavily dislike about him. Not enough sample size for giving this kind of assessment. Nevertheless there are some obvious deficiencies that would be nice to get fixed as soon as possible.

Sure…show me a typical pro athlete who couldn’t work on some things….next year I expect to see a big year from him.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Have to look at any move of Oshie of Kuzy through the WWOW lens, what would Ovy want? Can’t ask Ovy to take under $10M then spring a Kuzy trade on him.

Ovy knows his role. He survived Semin moving on. Non-issue.

It’s not like the Caps wouldn’t be spending to the cap.

 

[txpd]

You’re completely missing the point.

The point is STOP USING TIME ON ICE AS YOUR ONLY TOOL TO EVALUATE PLAYERS

When 1 player is scratched and another player believed to be in the doghouse takes a hit in ice time. I am comfortable pointing at it. When the coach with repetition says that he holds his players accountable with ice time. I am comfortable pointing at the ice time.

I am curious. What did you think Vrana getting scratched meant?

 

[txpd]

Sure…show me a typical pro athlete who couldn’t work on some things….next year I expect to see a big year from him.

Based on Lavy comments there is at least a case to be made that Kuzy and Sammy getting punished was at Ovechkin's desire. I am fairly conviced that Ovechkin takes his hockey pretty seriously and he doesnt appreciate a cavalier attitude about it. I think you can make a case that Ovechkin thru Semin under the bus himself

 

[EroCaps]

3 off ice issues in less than 2 years can't be understated.

He's also spoken out against the style of hockey that won them a Cup.

He doesn't get it and if he's not giving you ppg production it's just not worth it.

 

[Melkor]

Sure…show me a typical pro athlete who couldn’t work on some things….next year I expect to see a big year from him.

To work on them is one thing, fix them is another. I expect him to show up this postseason otherwise this trade didn't make sense considering the price paid and timing.

I think you can make a case that Ovechkin thru Semin under the bus himself

In personal conversation between the two - sure maybe. Threw him under the bus talking to a management? Zero chance.

 

[Calicaps]

To work on them is one thing, fix them is another. I expect him to show up this postseason otherwise this trade didn't make sense considering the price paid and timing.

The guy's played 314 NHL games. All but 12 of those have been in a hapless, loser organization. Give him... and the coaching staff for that matter... a minute, maybe?

 

[Calicaps]

Have to look at any move of Oshie of Kuzy through the WWOW lens, what would Ovy want? Can’t ask Ovy to take under $10M then spring a Kuzy trade on him.

Oshie? He's the anti-Kuzy. How do those two guys even end up in the same sentence around this? He's not being moved.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

To work on them is one thing, fix them is another. I expect him to show up this postseason otherwise this trade didn't make sense considering the price paid and timing.

In personal conversation between the two - sure maybe. Threw him under the bus talking to a management? Zero chance.

I expect everyone to show up for the postseason, but one postseason isn’t validating or invalidating this trade cost sorry. (Short of a Cup win where he contributes significantly).

 

[Melkor]

I expect everyone to show up for the postseason, but one postseason isn’t determining the fair value of this trade sorry.

One postseason is determining whether or not the timing of the trade and the price paid was justifiable though. Maclellan wasn't in a hurry to give up a 1st and 2nd for anything other than boosting this season's results. I'd bet Yzerman pulls the trigger on this trade 10 times out of 10 at any point of a calendar year. And if Mantha doesn't deliver this postseason I don't know how you can justify those aspects of the trade. There are reasons they didn't postpone the trade until the draft and the offseason. They clearly felt they needed someone who can deliver when it matters instead of Vrana. Mantha might improve down the road but this team can't afford him going ghost mode this year. Who knows if they are contenders even next year. They're old.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

One postseason is determining whether or not the timing of the trade and the price paid was justifiable though. Maclellan wasn't in a hurry to give up a 1st and 2nd for anything other than boosting this season's results. I'd bet Yzerman pulls the trigger on this trade 10 times out of 10 at any point of a calendar year. And if Mantha doesn't deliver this postseason I don't know how you can justify those aspects of the trade. There are reasons they didn't postpone the trade until the draft and the offseason. They clearly felt they needed someone who can deliver when it matters instead of Vrana. Mantha might improve down the road but this team can't afford him going ghost mode this year. Who knows if they are contenders even next year. They're old.

you don’t know….the situation behind the scenes with Vrana alone could have been approaching an untenable position…..

combined with the other 2 boneheads, maybe the timing was indeed crucial for the room.

Additionally, we paid for cost certainty, not having to pay Vrana 5.5, and acquired a player with a more similar identity to the team and the philosophy it’s built on.

 

[traparatus]

You folks are all nuts. I don't know if all the memories have faded or what is going on here but not having a legitimate top-6 center to play behind Backstrom absolutely sucked. I don't know what's going on with Kuznetsov off the ice but on the ice he has been a perfectly fine top-6 center.

The only thing that trading Kuznetsov for Monahan would accomplish is all of us would develop a new found appreciation for Kuznetsov. Monahan should thank his lucky stars that he got to spend his entire career superglued to Gaudreau.

 

[twabby]

I think it’s fair to expect Mantha to have a good postseason this year when evaluating the trade. Nothing heroic, but a solid contributor. Even if the points aren’t there, though of course I’d love some production as well!

For what it’s worth I think he’s done quite well so far in DC and this level of play would be a success in the postseason IMO.

 

[txpd]

One postseason is determining whether or not the timing of the trade and the price paid was justifiable though. Maclellan wasn't in a hurry to give up a 1st and 2nd for anything other than boosting this season's results. I'd bet Yzerman pulls the trigger on this trade 10 times out of 10 at any point of a calendar year. And if Mantha doesn't deliver this postseason I don't know how you can justify those aspects of the trade. There are reasons they didn't postpone the trade until the draft and the offseason. They clearly felt they needed someone who can deliver when it matters instead of Vrana. Mantha might improve down the road but this team can't afford him going ghost mode this year. Who knows if they are contenders even next year. They're old.

I am not sure about the 1 post season thing. How many points does Mantha need to outscore Vrana's last two playoff seasons?
We dont know the details but MacLellan said he had a deal with Yzerman twice and the Red Wings pulled away at the last. If the deal was the same all along, Detroit didnt say yes 10 times out of 10.

 

[Hivemind]

When 1 player is scratched and another player believed to be in the doghouse takes a hit in ice time. I am comfortable pointing at it. When the coach with repetition says that he holds his players accountable with ice time. I am comfortable pointing at the ice time.

I am curious. What did you think Vrana getting scratched meant?

I think that what players are in the coach's doghouse is not always a good measure of the quality of a player. Once again, Alexander Ovechkin was in Dale Hunter's doghouse while Hunter loaded Jay Beagle with 20+ minutes. Coaching decisions regarding how much ice time to give players, and even who to scratch, are a particularly bad way to conduct player evaluations.

 

[trick9]

So McMichael sucks? Should he spend another year in the AHL or?..

Their window is effectively closed with Kuznetsov playing like he has the last 3 years. At least adding new blood and using that cap space elsewhere might create a new formula.

I think if they play their cards right they can extend their window and avoid a full-scale rebuild.

No he doesn't but he's not going to be a major contributor in the Playoffs in the near future.

 

[g00n]

I think that what players are in the coach's doghouse is not always a good measure of the quality of a player. Once again, Alexander Ovechkin was in Dale Hunter's doghouse while Hunter loaded Jay Beagle with 20+ minutes. Coaching decisions regarding how much ice time to give players, and even who to scratch, are a particularly bad way to conduct player evaluations.

This is the exception that proves the rule because it's so ridiculous and rare that it stands out all these years later.

One coach doing it could be a fluke. Three or four having the SAME issue and reacting the SAME way is a pattern.

 

[tenken00]

One thing I didn't like about Mantha so far is his compete level. Like with a body like that he would be much more helpful if he were a bit quicker on the feet and used more sheer power when he's battling for the puck along the boards. I think he also needs to be more aware where his teammates are when they're doing cycles. Often caught him having a bad timing on the passes with not enough/too much velocity on them or even going in the opposite direction into a no man's land. He definite;y needs to up his intensity level come playoff time, so far he hasn't scored enough to make up for lack thereof

I was kinda feeling the same but that assist on Sprong's goal last night was all from Mantha's compete to get the puck on the back wall and have the wherewithal to get it to a crashing Sprong. If he can continue to do that, I'll be more than happy.

 

[txpd]

I think that what players are in the coach's doghouse is not always a good measure of the quality of a player. Once again, Alexander Ovechkin was in Dale Hunter's doghouse while Hunter loaded Jay Beagle with 20+ minutes. Coaching decisions regarding how much ice time to give players, and even who to scratch, are a particularly bad way to conduct player evaluations.

Trotz, Reirden, MacLellan, Laviolette. Its not one coach with an irrational opinion. Last post playoffs and then after hiring Laviolette MacLellan was asked about and commented specifically about Kuznetsov and his play and getting better play. They werent asking and he wasnt commenting about Backstrom or Eller or anyone else.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You folks are all nuts. I don't know if all the memories have faded or what is going on here but not having a legitimate top-6 center to play behind Backstrom absolutely sucked. I don't know what's going on with Kuznetsov off the ice but on the ice he has been a perfectly fine top-6 center.

The only thing that trading Kuznetsov for Monahan would accomplish is all of us would develop a new found appreciation for Kuznetsov. Monahan should thank his lucky stars that he got to spend his entire career superglued to Gaudreau.

I’m all for a hockey trade, Monahan ain’t it for me either.

 

[Melkor]

I am not sure about the 1 post season thing. How many points does Mantha need to outscore Vrana's last two playoff seasons?
We dont know the details but MacLellan said he had a deal with Yzerman twice and the Red Wings pulled away at the last. If the deal was the same all along, Detroit didnt say yes 10 times out of 10.

I believe the deal wasn't the same and that's exactly the reason why they pulled away beforehand. Maclellan had to go all in on that one to secure the deal. That's IMO obviously but I'm having a hard time imagining the reasons for why Yzerman opted out initially then suddenly felt an yrgency to get it done right at the deadline.
There's no definitive amount of points where you can sit here and say "Yeah that was a great trade". You need to take into account many things including how clutch were those points, what he brought to the table aside from them, how crucial were the things he brought to the table for the team's needs or otherwise can you deem his skillset irreplaceable with the way this team's built.

 

[Melkor]

I was kinda feeling the same but that assist on Sprong's goal last night was all from Mantha's compete to get the puck on the back wall and have the wherewithal to get it to a crashing Sprong. If he can continue to do that, I'll be more than happy.

That was a good play but I'm trying to look at a bigger picture. It's dangerous to rely on the guys who make those flashy plays once in while and then can't string together two shifts where he'd look like a decent contributor for his linemates work. If Mantha can do this on a regular basis or not even exactly this - just be able to put together a solid picture of what he's as player in a positive way then that would be good. So far I'm struggling to understand what to expect from him because his game looks quite inconsistent from shift to shift.

 

[txpd]

I believe the deal wasn't the same and that's exactly the reason why they pulled away beforehand. Maclellan had to go all in on that one to secure the deal. That's IMO obviously but I'm having a hard time imagining the reasons for why Yzerman opted out initially then suddenly felt an yrgency to get it done right at the deadline.
There's no definitive amount of points where you can sit here and say "Yeah that was a great trade". You need to take into account many things including how clutch were those points, what he brought to the table aside from them, how crucial were the things he brought to the table for the team's needs or otherwise can you deem his skillset irreplaceable with the way this team's built.

You believe based on what information? Got a reliable link? We heard MacLellan say it in his presser.