News: Cap Concerns Reason for No Trades - Cap Could Be As Low As 80M

[Taylorst]

The easy solution is for teams to invest in great scouts so they can draft well and not handout ludicrous contracts that cripple them long-term. The Kevin Hayes contract is an example. Same with Lucic, Clarkson, MacDonald, Phaneuf, etc.

Teams that spend like drunken sailors create a snowball effect for the league as other teams follow suit. Blame the teams. Simple. This is why there is constantly a work stoppage threat and measures need to be put in place to offer teams cap relief.

It's like people getting in over their heads with credit card debt then filing for bankruptcy.

Everything your pointing out I agree with.
Their is plenty of blame to go around.

Your right about these teams handing out over inflated contracts to avg or below avg or declining players.


Example Brent Seabrook why on God's green earth Stan gave him that long of a contract when it was clear Seabrook was declining especially attaching a NTC! NMC .

Your also correct about scouting .
Their are to many players in the league who are either rushed up just to stay within the cap and it hurts their development.

The one big 5hing the nhl needs to do is have a salary cap that is designed to allow for teams to compete and pay it's top talent , but should also not be abused by GMs or players just to pay someone.

Kucherov
Kane
Mc David
Are some good examples of players who deserve or validate their salaries.


Kevin Hayes is not worth and should have never been given that salary.

Now he sets a high bar for a avg player . That means a player whom is more productive and impactful starts well above him

 

[Dr Quincy]

The easy solution is for teams to invest in great scouts so they can draft well and not handout ludicrous contracts that cripple them long-term. The Kevin Hayes contract is an example. Same with Lucic, Clarkson, MacDonald, Phaneuf, etc.

Teams that spend like drunken sailors create a snowball effect for the league as other teams follow suit. Blame the teams. Simple. This is why there is constantly a work stoppage threat and measures need to be put in place to offer teams cap relief.

It's like people getting in over their heads with credit card debt then filing for bankruptcy.

In other words, create a nanny state to restrict freedom and a free market because some people can't control themselves.

Great scouts also should be able to scout pro players, in fact, it is easier since they are playing at the level you are projecting them to.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Bettman has gotta stop with this crap, How did it help anyone by telling the world cap could be going up to 83M. then players like Matthews completely rape a team's cap.

No Leaks, Tell the real number when that info's out. complete joke.

 

[Taylorst]

I agree with you.

The worst thing anyone can do is NOT speak up when they find fault in things they care about. That's called apathy.

At the end of the day, the NHL exists because fans are willing to pay money, and dedicate their time, to the league or their favorite teams. As paying customers we have a right to voice our opinions when we don't like something.

Being silent, and just accepting everything the league or your favorite team does, right or wrong is dangerous.

Well said. The league , owners , players should take the time and listen to their paying fans .
We pay their salaries bottom line .

If you lose your fan base , you lose your salary.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Kucherov
Kane
Mc David
Are some good examples of players who deserve or validate their salaries.


Kevin Hayes is not worth and should have never been given that salary.

Now he sets a high bar for a avg player . That means a player whom is more productive and impactful starts well above him

Who are you to decide how much another human can make? Who are you to decide how much another human can spend?

Kevin Hayes' salary does not control the salary of any other player. The market does. Maybe you can argue in arbitration cases comps are used, but most arbitration cases don't compare UFA contracts to RFA ones. And very few cases actually go to arbitration.

I'm fine with doing away the salary cap completely. It was the owners who cried for it. Now they have it and some teams don't like how other owners allocate their cap. Too bad.

This is an owner vs. owner thing, not an owner vs. nhlpa thing.

 

[mikeyp24]

That's like saying "You eat pie for the pie. Why would I want ice cream with it?".

I mean yeah, ultimately the pie is the goal, and you can eat it without ice cream and still enjoy it. Doesn't mean a nice scoop on top doesn't make it a whole lot better.

is that a real way to eat pie? Seriously never heard of that all though I'm more of a cake then Pie person as in f***ing hate pie.

 

[Taylorst]

Bettman has gotta stop with this crap, How did it help anyone by telling the world cap could be going up to 83M. then players like Matthews completely rape a team's cap.

No Leaks, Tell the real number when that info's out. complete joke.

Your right.
The NHL wonders why it has problems. It starts with having your salary cap set and defined months before the playoffs end.

That gives teams time to access things make the decisions needed .

It's sad that a difference of a half a million to 2 million affects the quality of the league, draft, free agency.

 

[Sparty]

I don't understand this stuff all that well, but why would the players want to keep the cap down?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't understand this stuff all that well, but why would the players want to keep the cap down?

Because you're taking money out of the pockets of guys who already have contracts to make the cap higher.

 

[Matthews34]

is that a real way to eat pie? Seriously never heard of that all though I'm more of a cake then Pie person as in ****ing hate pie.

How does one ****ing hate pie???? A general dislike I could understand but ****ing hate. That's weird.

 

[angry pirate]

I don't understand this stuff all that well, but why would the players want to keep the cap down?

If they escalate the cap and real NHL revenue doesn't keep up than they have to give a % of their salaries back to maintain the 50/50 split between themselves and the owners.

 

[Taylorst]

Who are you to decide how much another human can make? Who are you to decide how much another human can spend?

Kevin Hayes' salary does not control the salary of any other player. The market does. Maybe you can argue in arbitration cases comps are used, but most arbitration cases don't compare UFA contracts to RFA ones. And very few cases actually go to arbitration.

I'm fine with doing away the salary cap completely. It was the owners who cried for it. Now they have it and some teams don't like how other owners allocate their cap. Too bad.

This is an owner vs. owner thing, not an owner vs. nhlpa thing.

I'm a paying fan just like everyone else . However in any field career, position,, in order for any business model to stay viable, profitable and produce a product , experience their is a pay structure high and low end based on skills , productivity.

Kevin Hayes can ask for the moon that's his right , it's still the owners right and responsibility to be responsible when handing out contracts .
It's not like any of these players are underpaid , they all make more money than 60 to 70 percent of most people.

However when a owner issues a contract he needs to understand that very new contract issued sets a scale for future salaries that's a fact.


The market is determined by players who sign contracts. Kevin Hayes signing recently just set a market price, just like karlsson signing it's a new market price.

How else do you think the market is set? That's how the market gets set or defined

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Cap Hell is real. Relief just got more expensive

 

[Sparty]

Because you're taking money out of the pockets of guys who already have contracts to make the cap higher.

How does that make any sense? Because they gambled on a long term deal they feel like they're getting paid less if they get a lesser percentage of the payroll? You'd think they would want their teammates and others to be paid more so their next deals will be higher.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How does that make any sense? Because they gambled on a long term deal they feel like they're getting paid less if they get a lesser percentage of the payroll? You'd think they would want their teammates and others to be paid more so their next deals will be higher.

Because that's how players being paid works. The revenue split is 50%-50%. Players can increase escrow to increase the cap beyond the levels of the revenue increase, and that is just taking away money from players who have deals to give to free agents. That's what the NHLPA escalator does.

 

[justafan22]

Because that's how players being paid works. The revenue split is 50%-50%. Players can increase escrow to increase the cap beyond the levels of the revenue increase, and that is just taking away money from players who have deals to give to free agents. That's what the NHLPA escalator does.

There's going to be another lockout isn't there?

 

[Blueboy]

And what about this comment? Don’t like the NHL you don’t have to watch

I love hockey

Go gatekeep something else.

 

[FeatherHead]

Bettman has gotta stop with this crap, How did it help anyone by telling the world cap could be going up to 83M. then players like Matthews completely rape a team's cap.

No Leaks, Tell the real number when that info's out. complete joke.

That was there best game to giess where it was going to end up. Then the PLAYERS chose not to invoke the escalator clause, which they’ve consistently done to artificially raise the cap, An day here you are. They speculate the cap every year and do so based on the players track record of using the escalator. They players did this.

 

[Alklha]

How does that make any sense? Because they gambled on a long term deal they feel like they're getting paid less if they get a lesser percentage of the payroll? You'd think they would want their teammates and others to be paid more so their next deals will be higher.

As said, the revenue is split 50/50 between players and owners. If the total salary to players exceeds 50% of revenue then they don't get their full salaries.

I'm not sure what the latest numbers are, but 2012-2015 players were having ~15% of their salaries held in escrow during the season. At the end of the season they were losing 10%+ of their salaries because that's how much the total salaries exceeded their 50% share of revenue.

The players don't want to continue using the escalator and continuing to lose such a large chunk of their contracts.

There's going to be another lockout isn't there?

Probably not. I don't see either side pushing for a significant change in the 50/50 split, there will be a push to change escrow though.

 

[Sparty]

As said, the revenue is split 50/50 between players and owners. If the total salary to players exceeds 50% of revenue then they don't get their full salaries.

I'm not sure what the latest numbers are, but 2012-2015 players were having ~15% of their salaries held in escrow during the season. At the end of the season they were losing 10%+ of their salaries because that's how much the total salaries exceeded their 50% share of revenue.

The players don't want to continue using the escalator and continuing to lose such a large chunk of their contracts.

Probably not. I don't see either side pushing for a significant change in the 50/50 split, there will be a push to change escrow though.

I think I got it now, so the cap is half of what they expect revenue to be in the upcoming year?

 

[These Are The Days]

How does one ****ing hate pie???? A general dislike I could understand but ****ing hate. That's weird.

It's not rational!

 

[Taylorst]

The NHL would not exist if it where not for its paying fans, just like any other major sports league.

In any profession , when a person goes into that profession they do it for many reasons , however don't complain about your salary if you knew what the top end would pay.

These players all talk about how they love the game and I don't doubt that, but they also realize that it's not like the NFL, NBA , OR BASEBALL , WHERE Their salaries would become massive.

The NHL simply can't afford to pay 10 million dollar plus salaries to multiple players on a hard low salary cap all while fielding a team of 23 players unless either the cap is raised or eliminated.


Therefore owners and the players association have to come to a understanding of what's truly at stake and that is the risk of the league .

Fans get turned off by their teams not being competitive or by watching weak talent brought into the league just to meet a fiduciary number.

The talent level or lack of and development can be attributed to the colleges, other minor league's programs as well as each teams conditioning and development program.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I'm a paying fan just like everyone else . However in any field career, position,, in order for any business model to stay viable, profitable and produce a product , experience their is a pay structure high and low end based on skills , productivity.

Not true and not how the NHL works and it's silly to compare the NHL to other professions. In the real world one competitor can outspend another competitor by any amount it wants. It can create a pay scale that it believes is best for itself, whether it's creating a higher pay scale than the competition or lower than the competition. In the NHL we have a cap and a floor. The owners have already determined that they can stay viable with this system. So whether they spend it paying high salaries to a few players, or average salaries to a bunch.... it doesn't matter with regard to economic viability.

Kevin Hayes can ask for the moon that's his right , it's still the owners right and responsibility to be responsible when handing out contracts .
It's not like any of these players are underpaid , they all make more money than 60 to 70 percent of most people.

Most people don't generate revenue to the same extent, so of course they don't earn the same. Players also don't make as much as owners do, nor should they. Again, the owners have determined what they can afford. So whatever Kevin Hayes gets paid doesn't effect the pocketbook or economic viability of anyone.

However when a owner issues a contract he needs to understand that very new contract issued sets a scale for future salaries that's a fact.

In the 90s my now 30 year old nephew collected pokemon cards. He had a price guide book and tried to tell me that because the book said his Charziard gold card (or whatever) was worth $50. I tried to explain to him that the market doesn't work that way. The price is whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay. It may be $50. It may be $100. It may be .25. Same thing here. That's a fact.

How else do you think the market is set? That's how the market gets set or defined

See above. The market for a player is set by the player's value to whomever the highest bidder is.

 

[angry pirate]

How does that make any sense? Because they gambled on a long term deal they feel like they're getting paid less if they get a lesser percentage of the payroll? You'd think they would want their teammates and others to be paid more so their next deals will be higher.

They don't feel like they are getting paid less; they are. The last part is true, and in large part why they have continued to escalate the cap each year but I'm guessing that Hockey Related Revenue (HRR) was significantly lower than expected this year and the players may be staring at a hefty escrow payment to the owners to keep the 50/50 split. So I'm not shocked that if the players are giving a large amount back this year, that they are hesitant to raise the cap and potentially lose even more next year.

All reports indicate that the players already hate the escrow payments in general; not getting that money back at the end of the year, or losing a lot of it, is probably creating some animosity among the PA.

 

[Coach Parker]

The day was for players to be drafted into the league. That happened. Stop crying.

No ones crying; they are leaving, not watching and being bored. I should know; I was there.