News: Cap Concerns Reason for No Trades - Cap Could Be As Low As 80M

[A1LeafNation]

The NHL has a long way to go for them to be considered on the same level as the big 3.

 

[Byrddog]

Who are you to decide how much another human can make? Who are you to decide how much another human can spend?

Kevin Hayes' salary does not control the salary of any other player. The market does. Maybe you can argue in arbitration cases comps are used, but most arbitration cases don't compare UFA contracts to RFA ones. And very few cases actually go to arbitration.

I'm fine with doing away the salary cap completely. It was the owners who cried for it. Now they have it and some teams don't like how other owners allocate their cap. Too bad.

This is an owner vs. owner thing, not an owner vs. nhlpa thing.

There has to be some restraint on the contracts the GM's are giving out in a cash strapped league. Like it or not the is not the NHL where scads of money just flows and the cap is rarely a issue. Someone has to make the call as to how much is too much. The cap was put in place to prevent teams like the Old Detroit from just spending thru the roof and dominating the league year in year out. The leveling the playing field term was used. For 7 years the players association has used the escalator to allow the cap to go up and the higher payed players took it on the chin giving up salary in a give back to try to keep a system of rising cap and more money for the rank and file. If rumors are true that they has decided not to use that this yearthe cap increase looks to be a 1 mil bump up from last year or less. All Gm's have been re accessing there budgets some finding themselves in trouble others holding on for a panic to scoop up high end players for less in assets from teams in trouble. July 1 is coming and the draft is past now there is a long list of UFA's and many may not be in the league at the start of the season. The RFA's list if long as well most of these guys need a significant raise according to the market. So what is Mitch Marner or Brayden Point or Aho worth? Those that have fat contracts have theres but these RFA's are due and there is little to nothing in the pot for them.

 

[Boxscore]

In other words, create a nanny state to restrict freedom and a free market

Umm, you just defined the salary cap which is in place. This is exactly what the cap was designed to do, so smaller market teams can survive. If you feel like this, you should be 100% against any type of hard cap.

What I'm talking about is pure competence. Considering there IS a cap in place, successful teams find a way to operate efficiently within the limits of a capped market. Teams that fail and never achieve greatness do the opposite--they spend foolishly.

It's not too difficult to understand. If teams didn't feel so desperate and pumped the breaks on paying players like Kevin Hayes 7.1 mil against the cap for 7 years, the market would correct itself.

Or, just nuke the cap altogether--as a Flyers fan I'm down with that. The Flyers, Rangers, Leafs, Bruins and Hawks would be in on everyone.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Bettman has gotta stop with this crap, How did it help anyone by telling the world cap could be going up to 83M. then players like Matthews completely rape a team's cap.

No Leaks, Tell the real number when that info's out. complete joke.

Teams get updates throughout the year on how the next season looks. Don't blame Bettman for saying "based on projections, we think the cap for next season will be $X." Blame teams for acting on those projections [which they all see and have access to] and running with them like they're the gospel truth and making decisions accordingly.

If they escalate the cap and real NHL revenue doesn't keep up than they have to give a % of their salaries back to maintain the 50/50 split between themselves and the owners.

Sort of. I won't respond to the discussion ongoing here, I'll just say that over in the Business of Hockey forum a number of us have described the interplay between the cap and escrow in general and how specifically decisions for the cap for '19-20 would impact escrow. To this specific point, escrow potentially kicks in if

• Revenue growth doesn't match the escalator applied, or
• Teams on average overspend the midpoint of the salary cap system

The 2nd point can be overcome if revenue growth sufficiently exceeds the escalator and if teams don't dramatically overspend the midpoint. However, if teams are overspending the midpoint [which has happened virtually every year since about 2008-09] then escrow is likely - and then revenue growth falling short just aggravates the situation.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

I hope the cap stays where it is.

 

[DXStriker]

I know its the Player's are holding it up but its kind crazy that Round 1 is done and it probably halted a few trades and we are under 10 days away from Free Agency and nobody knows the Salary Cap yet ... lol

 

[Juicy Pop]

NHL execs would struggle to sell water in the desert.

Fans want draft day trades? Oh well, **** em.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Trading was the best part of the drafts of the past. Last night was boring. Because let's be honest, the only thing the average fan will care about is:

- Their team's own pick
- Maybe the first overall pick
- Trades

If you make it impossible for teams to trade, the whole draft is pretty boring and it's hard to keep attention to these random teams selecting players who are years away.

 

[Byrddog]

NHL execs would struggle to sell water in the desert.

Fans want draft day trades? Oh well, **** em.

Not all of that can be placed on the NHL front office. In fact most of it should be placed on the individual GM's for the lack of restraint in awarding contracts. They are still giving superstar contracts to Stars and star contracts to 10 goal dollar a dozen players. This has done just as much or more damage than the front office of the league has. Going in to draft day the GM's felt there hands to be tied and did the cost effective thing they drafted.

 

[StreetHawk]

I know its the Player's are holding it up but its kind crazy that Round 1 is done and it probably halted a few trades and we are under 10 days away from Free Agency and nobody knows the Salary Cap yet ... lol

So does this mean the nhl should try to finish the season earlier to ensure they have the final cap number within 24 hours of the nhl draft?

I mean we finished the season on June 12. If it takes more than 9 days to finalize these numbers then the season needs to be finished sooner.

 

[Ryan52]

 

[POVERTY]

The cap has made the NHL a complete snooze-fest when it comes to trades. Easily the worst of the major leagues for off-season excitement.

 

[Ryan52]

dregers tweet says “remains the target”, so gmbm may very well be onto something with 80M figure because 81.5-82 isnt set in stone

 

[Byrddog]

Umm, you just defined the salary cap which is in place. This is exactly what the cap was designed to do, so smaller market teams can survive. If you feel like this, you should be 100% against any type of hard cap.

What I'm talking about is pure competence. Considering there IS a cap in place, successful teams find a way to operate efficiently within the limits of a capped market. Teams that fail and never achieve greatness do the opposite--they spend foolishly.

It's not too difficult to understand. If teams didn't feel so desperate and pumped the breaks on paying players like Kevin Hayes 7.1 mil against the cap for 7 years, the market would correct itself.

Or, just nuke the cap altogether--as a Flyers fan I'm down with that. The Flyers, Rangers, Leafs, Bruins and Hawks would be in on everyone.

You are spot on. the Cap was put in place to level out the talent, keep smaller markets viable and grow the size of the league. It has done some of that but it has not reigned in the inability of teams to overspend on contracts.

 

[Flukeshot]

If $500k or even $2m is the difference between a team needing holding back making a trade or not, that's the team's problem, not the league.

Unless we are to believe a team has 5+ transactions lined up calculated within a few $100ks this is bogus.

There are teams that need to shed $10m plus regardless.

 

[robertocarlos]

To be a fly in Kyle Dubas fruit loops when he finds out.

Dude, I'm eating breakfast.

 

[Taylorst]

Not true and not how the NHL works and it's silly to compare the NHL to other professions. In the real world one competitor can outspend another competitor by any amount it wants. It can create a pay scale that it believes is best for itself, whether it's creating a higher pay scale than the competition or lower than the competition. In the NHL we have a cap and a floor. The owners have already determined that they can stay viable with this system. So whether they spend it paying high salaries to a few players, or average salaries to a bunch.... it doesn't matter with regard to economic viability.




Most people don't generate revenue to the same extent, so of course they don't earn the same. Players also don't make as much as owners do, nor should they. Again, the owners have determined what they can afford. So whatever Kevin Hayes gets paid doesn't effect the pocketbook or economic viability of anyone.



In the 90s my now 30 year old nephew collected pokemon cards. He had a price guide book and tried to tell me that because the book said his Charziard gold card (or whatever) was worth $50. I tried to explain to him that the market doesn't work that way. The price is whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay. It may be $50. It may be $100. It may be .25. Same thing here. That's a fact.





See above. The market for a player is set by the player's value to whomever the highest bidder is.

When determining ones self , they have other contracts, signings to go off of. Kevin Hayes is not a legitimate top 6 candidate he is more of a top 9 . So his 7 years 7 plus million based solely on what's his performance and overall play has been.

Take Alex debrincant he came into his rookie year at 18 years old put up almost 30 goals followed up by a 40 goal season, his contact is set to expire next year to you think based on his performance he is going to accept a 7 million dollar contract knowing he outperformed the market ? You can look at Nylander he got paid almost 7 million and hasn't even been close to the player cat is.


But a market value is determined by players who sign contracts to give other players a idea of what their starting point is.

Overpaying Kevin Hayes is foolish because it hurts every other team trying to compete and stay in a fair market value.

Each business model is unique in its own way.
It's not as simple as just saying this is what everyone needs to be paid as a baseline minimum when that minimum wage can harm the overall productivity , quality of personnel and the business models profit margins to allow it to continue to grow and create jobs and wages.

If a competitor decides they wish to overpay someone in the short term that might work or sound great ,but throughout time businesses can not sustain the same levels of sales which in turn hurts profits required as a bottom line percentage.

Therefore businesses slow down , lose paying customers , quality declines , performance, profits become lost and in the end bankruptcy to going out of business do to awful mismanagement with no realistic marketing plan to raise or improve profits.


The owners all in some way have a lot at risk , they are the ones who create jobs , put their livelihood, credit on the line for a opportunity to make money.

When you have owners who are not being responsible to the overall business and the league your a negative risk.

It all comes down to the owners and the league doing due diligence when handing out and maintaining each hockey market and if that market can not sustain a team or has bad ownership it hurts the entire league , example Arizona

 

[Boxscore]

Oh, and fans have every right to complain about salaries and the way their teams do business. Why? Because at the end of the day, it all trickles down to the fans who foot the bill.

Player X demands $8 mil a year. Team X feels they need to pay him that because he sells jerseys or helps the team win. Team X, in turn, raises ticket prices, concession prices, parking, etc. They ultimately pass the cost down to the fans.

Sure, I guess a reply can be: "Fans can choose not to pay prices or stop being a fan of the NHL." But, is that really a viable answer? Or should it be? I mean, where does it end? We're already to the point where an average family cannot take 4 kids to an NHL game in certain cities, pay for parking, food, or a souvenir.

The cap was put in place to reward teams who can draft well, and hopefully give them a chance to cultivate and retain their own players, while possibly adding a couple of free agent pieces. The cap was put in place to reward UFA's (responsibly) but protect the teams against their RFA's. If anyone hasn't been paying attention, the RFA game has completely flipped the NHL and the cap on their heads. RFA is the new UFA. The minute the Oilers started paying McDavid and Draisaitl massive dollars, the table was set. The snowball started. Then you look at Eichel, Nylander, Matthews, etc. Marner is looking for 11+ and he's 22 freaking years old and has won nothing. Word in Philly yesterday was that Provorov is seeking north of 8, meanwhile the Flyers have stunk since he's been on the roster.

If fans don't recognize there's a problem here, I don't know what to say. Now we're into the draft and the league still has no idea what the cap is?? This is amateur hour at its finest.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Dude, I'm eating breakfast.

Two girls one cup.

 

[Ryan52]

If $500k or even $2m is the difference between a team needing holding back making a trade or not, that's the team's problem, not the league.

Unless we are to believe a team has 5+ transactions lined up calculated within a few $100ks this is bogus.

There are teams that need to shed $10m plus regardless.

i would still rather wait to make moves when i had an official number if i was in charge... i dont blame them

 

[Taylorst]

If $500k or even $2m is the difference between a team needing holding back making a trade or not, that's the team's problem, not the league.

Unless we are to believe a team has 5+ transactions lined up calculated within a few $100ks this is bogus.

There are teams that need to shed $10m plus regardless.

No it's the league's problem because the league came out and said 83 million and then at the last minute changed that and downsized the original number and stated it could go down even more.

Unfortunately 500k is a huge difference determining contracts , players , moved, and prospects.


It's just awful leadership coming from the league once again.

The cap numbers should be notified January 1st of each year period. In any other business they all have deadlines to meet to be successful.

 

[Taylorst]

i would still rather wait to make moves when i had an official number if i was in charge... i dont blame them

Yep your correct. It's a joke to be honest that the league has struggled with setting and notifying the owners early on before the seasons end.

 

[thadd]

This is hilarious that they can't even announce the cap before the draft.
Whoever is in charge of this crap needs to get fired.

 

[PredsV82]

The fact that the league didn’t have a set cap number headed into the draft is a ****ing joke.

This is why the NHL takes a backseat to the NFL/NBA.

Oh bullshit
Did you watch the NBA draft?? How many teams drafted players with picks they had traded but cant officially move until July 6th??

The NBA draft is a ridiculous incoherent cluster.

 

[Taylorst]

They don't feel like they are getting paid less; they are. The last part is true, and in large part why they have continued to escalate the cap each year but I'm guessing that Hockey Related Revenue (HRR) was significantly lower than expected this year and the players may be staring at a hefty escrow payment to the owners to keep the 50/50 split. So I'm not shocked that if the players are giving a large amount back this year, that they are hesitant to raise the cap and potentially lose even more next year.

All reports indicate that the players already hate the escrow payments in general; not getting that money back at the end of the year, or losing a lot of it, is probably creating some animosity among the PA.

I think it might be the perfect time for the league to get a new leader. Bettman has been awful for the league. He always b
gets booed that tells you just how despised he is .
Look at the awful calls the refs made or didn't call , the video replays that where very suspect .