Player Discussion Canucks sign D Tyler Myers to 5-Year, $30m Deal ($6m AAV) | Part 2

[4Twenty]

Exactly. This is their m.o. - divert attention away from the fact that once again, it is a backwards move for the Canucks, at best putting them into mediocrity purgatory where they are a bubble team with no more top 5 picks.

"We CAN'T discuss Myers age and cap hit! The poll says so!"

And diverting attention away from the ridicule of the 22% or whatever the percentage is who think there is nothing to choose between what Myers brings and what Hutton brings - a position that is supported by the data we are seeing so far of the two.

Ultimately, they always come back to one tactic - accuse others of doing what they are in fact doing. Coming here with an agenda (die on the hill of defending Benning) and accusing others of having an agenda. Accusing others of being triggered, when they come apart at the seams when someone points out not only is Hutton as useful as Myers, he is cheaper and younger.

Thanks.

I probably shouldn't have taken the bait, which is exactly what referencing Hutton and the poll was.

I was trying my best to keep from labeling anyone here either, for the most parts I've put posters I feel argue in bad faith on the ignore list.

 

[I am toxic]

It's incredible that we're in year 15 of having a salary cap and people still think that signing a guy for $30 million and having him be a marginal upgrade on a guy making $1.5 million is a big win for the team.

Granted, we shouldn't really be comparing these two players because they play on opposite sides, but that's the argument being presented.

Yeah, it's Hutton/Benn that should be the comparison, and Schenn/Myers. In any and all cases, we paid as much or significantly more, for something that won't move the needle much now, and will move it backwards later on as Myers gets older - like when our stars are in their prime and we would need every dollar of cap space to put the team over the top.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Yeah, it's Hutton/Benn that should be the comparison, and Schenn/Myers. In any and all cases, we paid as much or significantly more, for something that won't move the needle much now, and will move it backwards later on as Myers gets older - like when our stars are in their prime and we would need every dollar of cap space to put the team over the top.

Why are we comparing Schenn and Myers?
That is just laughably dumb...no, is this trying to glorified Schenn because he was the guy that JB failed to retain?

 

[I am toxic]

Why are we comparing Schenn and Myers?
That is just laughably dumb...no, is this trying to glorified Schenn because he was the guy that JB failed to retain?

"Why are we comparing Schenn and Myers?"

"Well, actually, they're both right side D, and we had the opportunity to sign either, neither or both."

"That is just laughably dumb."

"Well actually, we could have gone with Edler/Tanev, Hughes/Schenn, Hutton/Stecher at a cap hit of $15.9M, instead we have Edler/Myers, Hughes/Tanev and Benn/Stecher at $21.6M. You know, about one Eriksson worth."

"..no, is this trying to glorified Schenn because he was the guy that JB failed to retain?"

"Well, actually, it's about opportunity cost, cap hits, and windows to compete for a Cup."

"You're toxic."*

*bandwagonesque, he didn't actually say I'm toxic - I made that part up. Sort of.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

"Why are we comparing Schenn and Myers?"

"Well, actually, they're both right side D, and we had the opportunity to sign either, neither or both."

"That is just laughably dumb."

"Well actually, we could have gone with Edler/Tanev, Hughes/Schenn, Hutton/Stecher at a cap hit of $15.9M, instead we have Edler/Myers, Hughes/Tanev and Benn/Stecher at $21.6M. You know, about one Eriksson worth."

"..no, is this trying to glorified Schenn because he was the guy that JB failed to retain?"

"Well, actually, it's about opportunity cost, cap hits, and windows to compete for a Cup."

"You're toxic."*

*bandwagonesque, he didn't actually say I'm toxic - I made that part up. Sort of.

So basically, you don’t think Myers at 6m (still overpaid ) is worth more than Schenn at 900k. (Let’s just ignore the fact that Schenn chose Tampa over Vancouver, which is fine)

Okay, I get to now. Have a good day

 

[I am toxic]

So basically, you don’t think Myers at 6m (still overpaid ) is worth more than Schenn at 900k. (Let’s just ignore the fact that Schenn chose Tampa over Vancouver, which is fine)

Okay, I get to now. Have a good day

"Let’s just ignore the fact that Schenn chose Tampa over Vancouver, which is fine"

"Well actually, let's not ignore your statement. One of the posters here at HFCanucks spoke to Schenn who said he wanted to sign here, but went with Tampa when Vancouver showed no interest."

"So basically, you don’t think Myers at 6m (still overpaid ) is worth more than Schenn at 900k."

"Well, actually, is this a trick question? We all saw Schenn worked well with Hughes, and we know Tanev works well with Edler, so $5m in cap space for something that doesn't really move the needle seems like something everyone can agree is a backwards move."

"You're toxic."*

*bandwagonesque, he didn't actually say I'm toxic - I made that part up. Again. Sort of.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Wow someone is actually arguing they’d rather keep the exact same group of defence men from last year over our defense now... My head hurts.

 

[Nazzlind]

You mean -34/.55 ppg Doughty? And +3/.60 ppg Edler?

The relevant point was whether the top pairing D can carry a partner. It's right in his post. Is there any disagreement that Edler can carry a partner? Do you want to say that Doughty can, or can't?

Why would anyone gloss over something that makes their argument even stronger?

Unless you think Edler and Doughty are pretty much equals in terms of being a top pairing D and how well they can carry their partners, I think it's important to factor in who Hutton's and Myers' d-partners is when comparing the two.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

"Let’s just ignore the fact that Schenn chose Tampa over Vancouver, which is fine"

"Well actually, let's not ignore your statement. One of the posters here at HFCanucks spoke to Schenn who said he wanted to sign here, but went with Tampa when Vancouver showed no interest."

"So basically, you don’t think Myers at 6m (still overpaid ) is worth more than Schenn at 900k."

"Well, actually, is this a trick question? We all saw Schenn worked well with Hughes, and we know Tanev works well with Edler, so $5m in cap space for something that doesn't really move the needle seems like something everyone can agree is a backwards move."

"You're toxic."*

*bandwagonesque, he didn't actually say I'm toxic - I made that part up. Again. Sort of.

You are missing a big factor here
Schenn is a career tweener except for the first few years of his career with Toronto and Philly when he was also bad.
Schenn has only played with Hughes for a few games, at the end of the season where most non-playoff teams have already lost their tensity.
To bet you money on Schenn being reliable for a full season is not a smart move at all. Unless you don’t care of improving the D core, which is impossible for the management in this case.

Also, why would I ever trust a HFboard poster saying that he had talked with Schenn unless there is a audio or video footage

I’ve made my point, I’m out

 

[I am toxic]

Unless you think Edler and Doughty are pretty much equals in terms of being a top pairing D and how well they can carry their partners, I think it's important to factor in who Hutton's and Myers' d-partners is when comparing the two.

I think Doughty is almost as good as Edler now, and we shouldn't give even more reasons why Hutton is showing just as well as, if not better than, Myers.

Imagine if Hutton was partnered with +3/.60 ppg Elder instead of saddled with -34/.56 ppg Doughty, while Myers was stuck with Doughty. The comparison would swing even more in favour of Hutton.

Well, except for handedness.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I think Doughty is almost as good as Edler now, and we shouldn't give even more reasons why Hutton is showing just as well as, if not better than, Myers.

Imagine if Hutton was partnered with +3/.60 ppg Elder instead of saddled with -34/.56 ppg Doughty, while Myers was stuck with Doughty. The comparison would swing even more in favour of Hutton.

Well, except for handedness.

And just like that, you lost all the validity I thought you had in my opinion
My gosh what a toxic post

 

[Nazzlind]

And just like that, you lost all the validity I thought you had in my opinion
My gosh what a toxic post

That’s what happens when you only rely on stats.

edit: honestly it’s not even only stats. I’m not sure what it is lol

 

[I am toxic]

And just like that, you lost all the validity I thought you had in my opinion

You're still here. Welcome back.

It's ok, you can ignore stats and my eye-test that Edler is now a better player than Doughty, and go with your own eye-test. You won't have any less validity in my eyes.

Hey, why did you edit out the toxic part? It's ok to say it, you know. It kinda helps my case with bandwagonesque.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

I think Doughty is almost as good as Edler now

Holy shit. Then you must believe that Benning is the best negotiator ever if he got an $11 million dollar a year level player for only $6 million.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

That’s what happens when you only rely on stats.

edit: honestly it’s not even only stats. I’m not sure what it is lol

I’m curious to see how many people on this planet will think “Doughty is almost as good as Edler now”

You truly can find anything on the internet

 

[I am toxic]

I’m curious to see how many people on this planet will think “Doughty is almost as good as Edler now”

You truly can find anything on the internet

There's lots that think Benning is good at drafting. It's funny what people will believe.

 

[Nazzlind]

There's lots that think Benning is good at drafting. It's funny what people will believe.

Just curious but where do you rank Edler among all dmen in the league? Top 5?

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Just curious but where do you rank Edler among all dmen in the league? Top 5?

Doughty is probably not top 20 on that list

 

[F A N]

There's lots that think Benning is good at drafting. It's funny what people will believe.

The jury is still out as to whether he's a good drafting GM, but Benning did draft the reigning rookie of the year and Boeser was the runner-up for the award the previous season. There's a good chance that Hughes will be a finalist this year as well.

 

[I am toxic]

Doughty is probably not top 20 on that list

Whoa now, who's side are you on?

 

[4Twenty]

They got rid of MDZ, Gudbranson and Pouliot. They wouldn't have returned with the same group as last year.

Myers looks good so far, but I'd say the biggest impact on the blueline is that kid wearing #43.

I don't think the team would be much different if this was the blueline:
Edler-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev
Hutton-Biega

I understand the idea behind wanting change on the backend and wanting to give the coach players he actually likes.

 

[I am toxic]

The jury is still out as to whether he's a good drafting GM, but Benning did draft the reigning rookie of the year and Boeser was the runner-up for the award the previous season. There's a good chance that Hughes will be a finalist this year as well.

Whey you say "The jury is still out", can I paraphrase that into "wait and see"? This would help me with bandwagonesque.

 

[Nazzlind]

Whoa now, who's side are you on?

He’s saying from your perspective.

But for real, is Doughty in your top 20? What about Edler ?

 

[I am toxic]

He’s saying from your perspective.

But for real, is Doughty in your top 20? What about Edler ?

Really? You're going to make me break character?

All right. Both are in the 15-20 range, Edler slightly ahead defensively, Doughty slightly ahead offensively - even though Doughty has poorer ppg than Edler last season, he has the potential to be a game breaker that I don't see in Edler. And defensively is what matters when it comes to making your partner look good. In the past, Doughty was far and away better, but he struggled last year and he hasn't done much outside of the CGY game this season to make me think he won't continue to struggle (for him). I know what Edler does to maintain his fitness at his age, I only suspect what Doughty doesn't do to maintain fitness.

I know some sporting news site might have Doughty 2nd or 9th or whatever, but those same ones have Karlsson at 1st and Subban in the top 20. Those ratings are based on what the players did in the past, not what they are doing now.

 

[4Twenty]

Whey you say "The jury is still out", can I paraphrase that into "wait and see"? This would help me with bandwagonesque.

I say just add the jury is still out to your paraphrase list, switch it up now and again/