Can we discuss about the elephant in the room ? (Carey Price's play)

[BLONG7]

Price was great for 3 seasons. Best goalie in the league. Best player in the league in 015. However the team in front of him stunk. They were either going to get better and join him, or he was going to get worse and join them. Looks like the latter won out.

Carey peaked . He will never have another season like 015. But he could win a cup.......with a great team. He will never win anything in Montreal under MBs watch. But neither would Holtby, Murray, Crawford, Quick, or any other Stanley Cup winning goalie.

Blaming Price for Habs lowly standing is like blaming Coyotes goalie, Sens goalie, Sabres goalie or Canucks goalie for there recent sad sack seasons.

Habs fans in general, have always eaten our goalies alive...not sure why...

 

[cphabs]

Everyone here realizes that our franchise player is a 31 year old injury prone goalkeeper coming off an injury while like looking suspect in preseason? Right?

 

[Sorinth]

I am saying it averages out for Price.

Was does this even mean?

Does Price face the same number of quality scoring chances that goalies from good teams face? It's a simple yes or no question.

If the answer is yes, it speaks volumes about your hockey knowledge, if the answer is no then obviously SV% is as much a team stat as it is a goalie stat.

 

[bsl]

He will be fine . I wouldn’t worry about him. Remember the defence that is in front of him is bottom 5 in the league .

The d in front of Anderson was just as bad. He was better. And for 10.5 mill price should make up for bad d. People were saying that other goalies will catch up on contract. Not happening yet.

Pre season so no panic. But if price is not top 5 this year he’ll get torched by fans.

Stupid stupid contract. And I said no more than 9 mill 2 years ago. This is not hindsight.

 

[DAChampion]

. And for 10.5 mill price should make up for bad d.

I wonder if that's considered controversial around here.

 

[Toene]

He sure doesn't look sharp. I really hope it's because he was "testing" things and not him giving 100% because if he was... ouch.

How do you even get out of such a contract? Benning may be the only GM in the league willing to bite. Straight up for Olli Juolevi/Quinn Hughes pls pls hockey gods

 

[nhlfan9191]

The d in front of Anderson was just as bad. He was better. And for 10.5 mill price should make up for bad d. People were saying that other goalies will catch up on contract. Not happening yet.

Pre season so no panic. But if price is not top 5 this year he’ll get torched by fans.

Stupid stupid contract. And I said no more than 9 mill 2 years ago. This is not hindsight.

Top 1-5 goalie contracts will catch up to Price’s. Won’t make them all good contracts however. We should’ve waited like Columbus with Bobrovsky. Bergevin went all in the second day he was eligible for an extension. Our GM took away any little leverage he had at the time.

 

[26Mats]

Everyone here realizes that our franchise player is a 31 year old injury prone goalkeeper coming off an injury while like looking suspect in preseason? Right?

And you forgot to add that he's a head case. It's come out that his struggles last year were mental. How does someone allow that to happen after signing the contract he signed??

I wish he was traded last year for a high return of picks and prospects. I'd rather gamble on prospects than on whether he can get it back together before he loses all trade value.

 

[dinodebino]

Depends on what you mean, if he's crouching looking through traffic, that's simple, it's easier to look underneath to find the puck than up and over, and you're closer to covering the percentages.

If you're meaning in his stance, that's also simple. You're taught to get up and over the puck now-a-days. The puck from ice level has an upward trajectory it doesn't go up like this ( I ) it goes up like this ( / ) so if you think about it, getting over the puck and being lower, you're actually protecting more of the net than if you are upright because you're allowing more space for the puck to get to its highest point.

It's what Quick popularized in his 2012 Conn Smythe run. It was a more advanced version of the 'puck's eye view'. Cut off the angle of flight as soon as possible and you cover more net even though it appears you're covering less.

Thank you very much. Great explanation.

 

[PaulD]

Everyone here realizes that our franchise player is a 31 year old injury prone goalkeeper coming off an injury while like looking suspect in preseason? Right?

The more obvious realizations that the team stinks and management is a joke.......Takes the spotlight off any goalie.

 

[bsl]

McDavid is paid even more and couldn't carry the Oilers out of the basement. Both Toews and Kane are paid over 10m yet neither saved Chicago from crappy the bed last season. And I doubt Toronto gave Tavares his contract thinking he's going to save the team.

Being paid 10m doesn't mean the player is paid to carry/save the team by himself.

We expect Price to carry the team because we have unrealistic expectations for goalies and because the only success we are likely to have is if he does carry the team. And for some reason rather then blame the GM for building a team that is overly reliant on one player we blame the player for not doing enough.

No. We expect price to play extremely well for being paid 20 percent more than any other goalie in the league. We don’t expect him to carry Habs to a cup or even po. Just earn the money. Because if not then in 3 years when Habs need to overpay big for a ufa, prices contract might prevent that.

All of this is so obvious. The thickness in this thread is massive.

 

[DAChampion]

McDavid is paid even more and couldn't carry the Oilers out of the basement.

McDavid is overwhelmingly more valuable than Price, and the gap will only widen over the duration of their contracts.

It's not a good comparison.

 

[bsl]

All you see is the money he is making so its pointless to discuss with you.

Maybe analyze the team the GM you defended for years has built. The best players in the world arent carrying terrible teams to anything

Uh yeah we do look at the money he is making. It’s called a salary cap. Try to keep up.

 

[bsl]

That's fair, however determining if he is a top-5 goalie is going be difficult if the defence in front of him is a disaster. I don't expect Price's stats to reflect his actual level of play because I expect our D to be pretty atrocious.

It is quite easy to evaluate a goalie’s play without referring to the team in front of him. Both with stats and the eye test.

 

[jiboy]

As far as I am concerned the Elephant in the room is the Subban trade. Price is a key part of our team and he should bounce back to elite play.

 

[bsl]

The point is that 10m+ doesn't equate to a player being able to carry the team.

So all the whining about how Price should carry us because he makes 10m is just BS. No player can carry a team by himself, and 10m isn't the salary you would give a guy who could.

As for the stats, a forward's stats are less dependent on the team in front of him then the goalies stats. SV% is extremely dependent on how good a job the team is doing keeping shots to the outside. A goalie is going to have a bad SV% and GAA if the team that gives up the slot constantly.

For forwards, it's a lot easier to produce even if you don't have a lot of help from teamates.

Who’s whining about how price should carry us? I’ve seen zero posts saying that. I see lots of posts saying he should play very well for 10.5 mill. I find that reasonable.

 

[bsl]

As far as I am concerned the Elephant in the room is the Subban trade. Price is a key part of our team and he should bounce back to elite play.

Aaaand subban! My new stock answer.

 

[Genesis76]

Uh yeah we do look at the money he is making. It’s called a salary cap. Try to keep up.

Listen, he still got an excellent trade value in NHL 19.... that must mean something.

Are you really trying to tell me that this guy is not worth 10.5 mils a year?

 

[bsl]

I heard the Elephant in the room expression way too much in the last month

It’s a big room.

 

[ottawa]

I'd honestly trade him for a bag of pucks at this point just to get out of that nightmarish contract.

That contract IMO has been MBs worst move.

I don't regret bringing Price back for 8 years but yeah, that contract is absolutely brutal. Hopefully Bergevin's stupidity taught all 30 GMs a valuable lesson...don't pay goalies what #1 centers should be getting paid!

 

[bsl]

Can we stop looking at the amount of shots on goals and look at the quality of the shots and scoring chances. Telle me a goalie who would have stoped matthews, and Marleau 's goals.. even the Kapanen goal was bar down on a 2 on 1. Kadri left all alkne in the slot for the first goal. Andersen got beat by a clean slapper from the blue ljne with no front net presence.. price is the last of my concern.
The d is horrible and the fwd group isbellow average

And this goal was that. This goal was this. You don’t think like: That is what happens in every nhl game? Against good teams? By your logic. Leafs would score 5 a game all year.

The thickness in this thread is strong.

 

[Sorinth]

Who’s whining about how price should carry us? I’ve seen zero posts saying that. I see lots of posts saying he should play very well for 10.5 mill. I find that reasonable.

Well did you read this post

Price is paid to save the team of itself.

 

[DAChampion]

I don't regret bringing Price back for 8 years but yeah, that contract is absolutely brutal. Hopefully Bergevin's stupidity taught all 30 GMs a valuable lesson...don't pay goalies what #1 centers should be getting paid!

Ummm, Price could be worth an 8-year, 10.5 million dollar contract, if he were still the elite player that he once was.

Bergevin likes paying people based off their past performance rather than their future performance. Price will be making 10.5 million in 2026 because he had a strong regular season in 2014, it's ludicrous.

 

[Sorinth]

It is quite easy to evaluate a goalie’s play without referring to the team in front of him. Both with stats and the eye test.

The eye test sure, but which goalie stats aren't hugely impacted by the team in front of him?

 

[bsl]

I posted this in the PGT, but here's more or less a c/p:

The Kadri goal was all about his technique, or lack of. My issue with that play was he was down far too early and never challenged the shooter. Maybe he didn't know Kadri had the puck, but Price was far too deep in his crease to really do anything.

Matthews goal? That was a legit snipe and I recall it being bar down.

Marner... smh. Carey isn't blameless, but that was on Petry.

Kapanen was a tough one to stop. Lindholm actually drew his wrists back which to Price I can see him mistake it for a wrister, but then Lindholm slid it over to Kapanen who caught Carey sliding. Petry again was the one who messed the original play up to cause the 2-on-1. He also didn't do enough to force the puck carrier to shoot and failed to stop the pass.

Marleau basically one timed his goal. It wasn't an Ovi rocket, but he was so close, it may as well had been.

Basically, the Kadri goal I did consider a bad one as Price didn't do enough. I'm sure the Kapanen and Marleau ones he'd like back but I wouldn't put it all on him. I mean, all the Toronto goals were beneath the face-off dots in the dZone, and 4 of them were bang bang pass/shoot plays.

Like. Uh. Most tough games against good teams. Not all result in 5 goals.