Cale Fleury or Timothy Liljegren

[LeafsNation75]

Nope. Most of his draft year is in the NHL already. The option for too close to call should be there which is why I didn’t vote.
I think both players project as bottom pairing guys with some upside. I’m higher on Sandin than Liljigren because of their skating and over all ability.

Besides Miro Heiskanen and Cale Makar how many other defenseman selected in the 2017 draft are full time NHL players?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Nope. Most of his draft year is in the NHL already.

Incorrect again. Only three of the 2017 1st round pick defencemen are in the NHL, and only six total defencemen from the entire 2017 draft class are currently NHLers. Several of these are struggling in limited roles.

The option for too close to call should be there which is why I didn’t vote.
I think both players project as bottom pairing guys with some upside.

Going by your display of “knowledge” on the topic so far, probably best you didn’t vote.

 

[sharks9]

Still Fleury, the points will come for him and right now he's been improving defensively. Also helps to have his physicality on the back end!

 

[Blueboy]

Here is all of those 78 votes who did not vote in the Leafs fan option and among them, I see maybe 4 or 5 who are Leafs fans.

• SpItFiReZ
• Wats
• danyhabsfan
• DriveFor9th
• tony d
• TheGoldenJet
• nashpreds
• Rude Dog
• RedWingzz
• DropIt
• HockeyGuruPitka
• Crabapple
• LEAFANFORLIFE23
• amnesiac
• The Nuge
• Kylie Sven Opossum
• Gavy
• GTA
• Derp Kassian
• SJSharks39
• BannedFromCDC
• BM14
• WJZ3
• EscapeGoat
• BananaSquad
• Habstastic
• dukeofjive
• Pavel Buchnevich
• canuckslover10
• AveryStar4Eva
• 6ix
• lomiller1
• The Great Weise
• Saint Blue
• garyturner3
• Fred Sheeran
• Learntoread
• martinez
• Vachon23
• snipes
• PhillyFaninMTL
• leafsmoney
• thomaspalmer
• Willy89
• Brando
• Kappy
• nobody
• bh53
• Cheeks Clapinski
• Ligue
• Isaac Nootin
• tricky
• sufferer
• ccman68
• Gnarpsviljan
• ManitobaKid
• Sick Nuzuki
• Justshootmore
• of Wonderland
• Teezyh
• MichalRozsival
• Jabs102501
• 780il
• Broad Street Buddies
• Beauterham
• stopclickbait
• Llamamoto49
• canadiantirefire
• LuckyBoeser
• The tsar
• wetcoast
• WillyNy
• Dr Salt
• 4chanhoc
• Blueboy
• AB13
• Stewie Griffin
• Koira666

I voted in that option and cheer for the Leafs.

That vote option is stupid.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I think Liljegren is in the AHL because he's an AHLer. Maybe he'll crack the NHL's bottom 5 defense next year if he has a good camp next year.

I'll take the uninspiring NHLer for now.

So if they aren't a full time NHL D at 20 they are a bust?

I have bad news about several "blue chip" D out there then.. Not all of them can be Ekblad I guess.

See how ridiculous this notion is? It's called player development.

Reminds me when people were insisting Marner wouldn't do what he did in the OHL in the NHL. His game wouldn't translate. Or how Matthews would be lucky to break 40 points as a rookie.

 

[LeafsNation75]

So if they aren't a full time NHL D at 20 they are a bust?

I have bad news about several "blue chip" D out there then.. Not all of them can be Ekblad I guess.

See how ridiculous this notion is? It's called player development.

Reminds me when people were insisting Marner wouldn't do what he did in the OHL in the NHL. His game wouldn't translate. Or how Matthews would be lucky to break 40 points as a rookie.

Didn't some people say Marner's success in the OHL was due to him playing with Tkachuk and Dvorak, even though it was Marner who was the OHL playoff MVP and Memorail Cup MVP, along with leading in goals and points.

 

[ottawa]

So if they aren't a full time NHL D at 20 they are a bust?

I have bad news about several "blue chip" D out there then.. Not all of them can be Ekblad I guess.

See how ridiculous this notion is? It's called player development.

Reminds me when people were insisting Marner wouldn't do what he did in the OHL in the NHL. His game wouldn't translate. Or how Matthews would be lucky to break 40 points as a rookie.

Who the flying f*** said bust, you're the first one in this thread to use that word

 

[LeafsNation75]

Who the flying **** said bust, you're the first one in this thread to use that word

I think that was implied with this response saying how other defenseman in his draft year is NHL ready, even though the only two who are full time is Miro Heiskanen and Cale Makar.

Nope. Most of his draft year is in the NHL already. The option for too close to call should be there which is why I didn’t vote.
I think both players project as bottom pairing guys with some upside. I’m higher on Sandin than Liljigren because of their skating and over all ability.

 

[Haatley]

Incorrect. Liljegren is leading his draft year in AHL scoring for defencemen. That’s a lot of 2017 draft prospects he’s beating, including multiple other first round picks. He is the easy choice in this poll.

Also Liljegren is outscoring the one year older Juolevi this year again, but that’s to be expected at this stage.

What are the games played numbers like? Not many defencemen play in the AHL in their D+1.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

What are the games played numbers like? Not many defencemen play in the AHL in their D+1.

Call Foote(full time AHLer), Erik Brannstrom(bounced back and forth), Jusso Valimaki(20 AHL games), Vaakanainen(47 total AHL games). Those guys were the 3 picks before Liljegren(Vaaka was the next pick) and they're kinda hard to compare given theres a difference in ice time, usage, games played etc. Most don't play in the AHL in their D+1 but in this draft there was a bunch of Europeans taken who can play in the A. I won't speak for how those guys are doing but I'm happy with where Liljegren is at. I loved the pick at the time and still like it. I also buy into players who slip in the draft, so long as they arent a nightmare off the ice. With him, the offense was never an issue. He was always going to be a guy who could produce. What we need is a RHD in the system who can stop the cycle and move the puck. So far, he looks like he can do that. He has the odd hiccup but what dman that age doesnt?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Call Foote(full time AHLer), Erik Brannstrom(bounced back and forth), Jusso Valimaki(20 AHL games), Vaakanainen(47 total AHL games). Those guys were the 3 picks before Liljegren(Vaaka was the next pick) and they're kinda hard to compare given theres a difference in ice time, usage, games played etc. Most don't play in the AHL in their D+1 but in this draft there was a bunch of Europeans taken who can play in the A. I won't speak for how those guys are doing but I'm happy with where Liljegren is at. I loved the pick at the time and still like it. I also buy into players who slip in the draft, so long as they arent a nightmare off the ice. With him, the offense was never an issue. He was always going to be a guy who could produce. What we need is a RHD in the system who can stop the cycle and move the puck. So far, he looks like he can do that. He has the odd hiccup but what dman that age doesnt?

I remember in Bob McKenzie's preseason draft rankings for the 2017 draft he had Liljegren at either #2 or #3. However his draft stock feel because he had mono and was bouncing around between different leagues in Sweden.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Incorrect. Liljegren is leading his draft year in AHL scoring for defencemen. That’s a lot of 2017 draft prospects he’s beating, including multiple other first round picks. He is the easy choice in this poll.

Also Liljegren is outscoring the one year older Juolevi this year again, but that’s to be expected at this stage.

That's because Heiskanen, Maker, Brannstrom, Jokiharju and Hague (early 2nd rd pick) all made the NHL. All played significant games in the NHL this year. Valimaki would be another 2017 draft D man in the NHL if he wasn't hurt. You are trying too hard to build up Lilegren, as is your custom here. Leading 2017 D draftees in AHL scoring in their 3rd AHL season is hardly as noteworthy when over half of them drafted in the 1st rd are in the NHL and 1 out with a significant injury.

BTW Brannstrom has 12 pts in only 12 games since returning to the AHL. At his pace he will catch Lilegren in not too much time if he is not recalled by the Sens.

 

[LeafsNation75]

That's because Heiskanen, Maker, Brannstrom, Jokiharju and Hague (early 2nd rd pick) all made the NHL. All played significant games in the NHL this year. Valimaki would be another 2017 draft D man in the NHL if he wasn't hurt. You are trying too hard to build up Lilegren, as is your custom here. Leading 2017 D draftees in AHL scoring in their 3rd AHL season is hardly as noteworthy when over half of them drafted in the 1st rd are in the NHL and 1 out with a significant injury.

BTW Brannstrom has 12 pts in only 12 games since returning to the AHL. At his pace he will catch Lilegren in not too much time if he is not recalled by the Sens.

So basically you are holding it against Liljegren because he's played only 1 career NHL game.

Using your logic why hasn't Tampa Bay re-called Call Foote who was selected in the same draft at 14th overall three spots ahead of Liljegren, so there must be a reason for that.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

What are the games played numbers like? Not many defencemen play in the AHL in their D+1.

I’m talking about their D+3 year. So there’s a lot of D from the 2017 draft in the AHL currently in their D+3 year (only 6 are in the NHL as I mentioned above). Fleury is last place of those 6 in points and PPG.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

That's because Heiskanen, Maker, Brannstrom, Jokiharju and Hague (early 2nd rd pick) all made the NHL. All played significant games in the NHL this year. Valimaki would be another 2017 draft D man in the NHL if he wasn't hurt. You are trying too hard to build up Lilegren, as is your custom here. Leading 2017 D draftees in AHL scoring in their 3rd AHL season is hardly as noteworthy when over half of them drafted in the 1st rd are in the NHL and 1 out with a significant injury.

Brannstrom is in the AHL. So only 3 of the 9 1st round D are currently in the NHL. Valimaki if he returns this season (doubtful) will also go to the AHL. And yes, it is impressive for Liljegren to be leading guys like Foote, Timmins, Vaakanainen etc in scoring.

You inferring I am trying too hard is pretty rich, considering that’s literally all you do all day, try really hard to tear down the Leafs. Including predictably voting for a 3rd round pick over an obvious 1st round stud like Liljegren.

You also kept harping on how Durzi was preferred by the Kings over Liljegren, as if he were a superior prospect. Well guess who is lapping Durzi in points this year, in a similar amount of games?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Brannstrom is in the AHL. So only 3 of the 9 1st round D are currently in the NHL. Valimaki if he returns this season (doubtful) will also go to the AHL. And yes, it is impressive for Liljegren to be leading guys like Foote, Timmins, Vaakanainen etc in scoring.

You inferring I am trying too hard is pretty rich, considering that’s literally all you do all day, try really hard to tear down the Leafs. Including predictably voting for a 3rd round pick over an obvious 1st round stud like Liljegren.

You also kept harping on how Durzi was preferred by the Kings over Liljegren, as if he were a superior prospect. Well guess who is lapping Durzi in points this year, in a similar amount of games?

The point is you are making a big point that Lilegren having 24 pts in his 3rd AHL season, while ignoring most of the best 2017 D men drafted are playing in the NHL. It's not as big a deal as you are proclaiming. Sebastian Aho the D man not the other Aho that is a Center has 21 points in the AHL this year, I don't see anyone making similar proclamations on him as you are for Lilegren.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You also kept harping on how Durzi was preferred by the Kings over Liljegren, as if he were a superior prospect. Well guess who is lapping Durzi in points this year, in a similar amount of games?

To be exact Liljegren's stats in the AHL this season are the following. 4 Goals, 24 Assists, 24 Points in 33 Games played.

Durzi's AHL stats are the following. 2 Goals, 7 Assists, 9 Points in 29 Games played.

Timothy Liljegren Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Sean Durzi Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[TheGoldenJet]

The point is you are making a big point that Lilegren having 24 pts in his 3rd AHL season, while ignoring most of the best 2017 D men drafted are playing in the NHL. It's not as big a deal as you are proclaiming.

Again, this is literally three players that were drafted in the 1st round that you’re talking about, and only two of them are playing relatively well (both of whom are top 5 picks).

Sebastian Aho the D man not the other Aho that is a Center has 21 points in the AHL this year, I don't see anyone making similar proclamations on him as you are for Lilegren.

That’s because Aho is more than three years older than Liljegren (and still losing the scoring race to Liljegren).

 

[LeafsNation75]

Again, this is literally three players that were drafted in the 1st round that you’re talking about, and only two of them are playing relatively well (both of whom are top 5 picks).

How about the example I used about Call Foote who was another defenseman selected 14th overall by Tampa Bay, just three picks before Liljegren and so far Tampa Bay has not called him up to the NHL.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

That’s because Aho is more than three years older than Liljegren (and still losing the scoring race to Liljegren).

You cited 2017 drafted D men. The fences are changing in your arguments. Regardless, let's correct your earlier statement of 3 D men from the 2017 draft are playing in the NHL.

There are actually 7 2017 drafted D men that are playing in the NHL 8 if you include Brannstrom who played 33 games in the NHL before being sent down.

Heiskanen, Makar, Brannstrom, Valimaki(if not hurt), Jokiharju, Hague, Ferraro, and Fleury.

So while you like to point out Lilegren leads Foote and Aho by 3 pts in AHL scoring for 2017 drafted D men. Other teams already have players that are better, and no doubt would be bettering 24 points if they were in the AHL. Which is why making a big deal out of it, as you have, is silly when most of the better players are not in the AHL. It really isn't that impressive a feat for a 3rd year pro.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You cited 2017 drafted D men. The fences are changing in your arguments. Regardless, let's correct your earlier statement of 3 D men from the 2017 draft are playing in the NHL.

There are actually 7 2017 drafted D men that are playing in the NHL 8 if you include Brannstrom who played 33 games in the NHL before being sent down.

Heiskanen, Makar, Brannstrom, Valimaki, Jokiharju, Hague, Ferraro, and Fleury.

So while you like to point out Lilegren leads Foote by 2 pts in AHL scoring for D men.
Other teams already have players that are better, and no doubt would be bettering 24 points if they were in the AHL. Which is why making a big deal out of it, as you have, is silly when you most of the better players are not in the AHL.

Going back to what @TheGoldenJet said earlier why were AHL stats okay for you to mention when you brought up how much better Sean Durzi was compared to Liljegren, however now he's wrong when he mentions Liljegren in a positive way compared to other defenseman drafted in 2017 and their AHL stats. The reality of that is you only became a fan of Durzi once the Leafs traded and because prior to that I bet you didn't care about him at all.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Going back to what @TheGoldenJet said earlier why were AHL stats okay for you to mention when you brought up how much better Sean Durzi was compared to Liljegren, however now he's wrong when he mentions Liljegren in a positive way compared to other defenseman drafted in 2017 and their AHL stats. The reality of that is you only became a fan of Durzi once the Leafs traded and because prior to that I bet you didn't care about him at all.

Its because TWS does nothing but choose to argue against everything Leafs related. Its hilarious reading the flip-flops over the years. Durzi is a good one. I bet Matt Martin and Leo Komarov are great players now. By the summer, it'll be whomever we've dealt away. I legit laugh at how awful his posts are.

 

[Conbon]

I've never seen a fanbase overvalue their prospects as much as Habs fans on HF. Every day there is something new about how their prospects are absolutely unbelievable.

It's getting annoying to be honest. I know, nobody forced me to click on this, but it seems like every day there is a different Habs fan (or the same 3 or 4 over and over) who love to praise their prospects.

Kotkaniemi is a 1c and Mete is a top pair dman! Poehling is the steal of the draft, Cale Fleury is an underrated gem who will become one of the best players of his draft!

I know what you mean... Not to mention Domi being a 1c superstar, Price the undisputed best goalie of his generation, all this while the team is an absolute dumpster fire.

 

[sansabri]

Kotkaniemi is a 1c and Mete is a top pair dman! Poehling is the steal of the draft, Cale Fleury is an underrated gem who will become one of the best players of his draft!

I know what you mean... Not to mention Domi being a 1c superstar, Price the undisputed best goalie of his generation, all this while the team is an absolute dumpster fire.

So we're just going to literally skip how Lily was going to be in the NHL in a top 4 role real shortly after being drafted.

 

[sharks9]

So we're just going to literally skip how Lily was going to be in the NHL in a top 4 role real shortly after being drafted.

Just gonna skip all the examples of Leafs fans massively overrating their players, and ignoring the fact that their "cup contender" is 6 points ahead of the "absolute dumpster fire"