Cale Fleury or Timothy Liljegren

[Kobe Armstrong]

Was thinking about this today and am curious as to what popular consensus is. Both 2017 draftees playing for rival franchises. I'll add poll options to balance out fanbase bias so try and be honest

AHL Stats:

Liljegren:
2017-18: 1 goal, 16 assists, 44 GP. Playoffs: 0 goals, 4 assists, 20 GP
2018-19: 3 goals, 12 assists, 43 GP. Playoffs: 1 goals, 5 assists, 13 GP

Fleury:
2017-18: played in WHL
2018-19: 9 goals, 14 assists, 60 GP. Playoffs: Laval did not qualify

Click to read more...

 

[biturbo19]

I'd lean toward Fleury. I think he got really overlooked in that draft, playing on a terrible team. I still just don't really trust Liljegren's decisionmaking. He has that feel of a guy who is going to play and post some decent numbers, but make those critical mistakes at the worst times, that just kill you.

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

Leafs fans will use draft pedigree to incorrectly choose Liljegren.

 

[GTA]

Liljegren and not particularly close.

 

[RedWingzz]

I've never seen a fanbase overvalue their prospects as much as Habs fans on HF. Every day there is something new about how their prospects are absolutely unbelievable.

It's getting annoying to be honest. I know, nobody forced me to click on this, but it seems like every day there is a different Habs fan (or the same 3 or 4 over and over) who love to praise their prospects.

 

[Nizdizzle]

I'd lean toward Fleury. I think he got really overlooked in that draft, playing on a terrible team. I still just don't really trust Liljegren's decisionmaking. He has that feel of a guy who is going to play and post some decent numbers, but make those critical mistakes at the worst times, that just kill you.

How much have you seen of Liljegrin since he was drafted? He is unlikely to ever post decent offensive numbers. He has shifted into a more defensive puck-mover type role with the Marlies. He plays big minutes with the Marlies in a shutdown role (AFAIK, only Borgman has more defensive zone starts than him in the Playoffs this year, and drove play more than any other defender). If anything, I would think the fair knock of TL should be the lack of offense he provides.

 

[Crabapple]

Leafs fans will use draft pedigree to incorrectly choose Liljegren.

Haven't paid attention to these prospects so didn't vote, but I remember when Liljegren was drafted it seemed like a steal at the time. What happened to lower his stock so significantly?

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Haven't paid attention to these prospects so didn't vote, but I remember when Liljegren was drafted it seemed like a steal at the time. What happened to lower his stock so significantly?

At the time or sorta now?
He was going to be a top 5 pick before the year but got mono during his draft year then returned too early possibly cause his play suffered and then later on got injured. So very up and down mostly down year for his draft year.

And now he cant stay healthy either has been injured a fair amount and his lack of offense at the ahl level.

But when he does play he tilts the ice and is a possession monster. Very mobile skater and adept at 1v1 defending.

He just needs to stay healthy and reach his offensive potential.

 

[Muffin]

Don't think either of them will ever amount to anything TBH. At best they become a 3 pairing D in the NHL.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I still just don't really trust Liljegren's decisionmaking. He has that feel of a guy who is going to play and post some decent numbers, but make those critical mistakes at the worst times, that just kill you.

You're describing a very different player. Sounds like a pre-draft report.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Haven't paid attention to these prospects so didn't vote, but I remember when Liljegren was drafted it seemed like a steal at the time. What happened to lower his stock so significantly?

His stock has no lowered at all. The #17 overall pick in the 2017 draft has been doing just fine. From the D-1 draft hype, sure, but relative to expectations for the #17 pick he's right on track.

Had a good regular season and anchored a Marlies blueline on a deep playoff run, at an age where CHL drafted players aren't even eligible to play AHL hockey.

Agree with posters above, this poll is a joke.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Leafs fans will use draft pedigree to incorrectly choose Liljegren.

Have you extensively watched both of them to know that choosing Liljegren is an "incorrect" choice?

 

[snipes]

Leafs fans will use draft pedigree to incorrectly choose Liljegren.

If you’re going to make an assertion like that the least you could do is provide us with your reasoning.

 

[joe dirte]

I've never seen a fanbase overvalue their prospects as much as Habs fans on HF. Every day there is something new about how their prospects are absolutely unbelievable.

It's getting annoying to be honest. I know, nobody forced me to click on this, but it seems like every day there is a different Habs fan (or the same 3 or 4 over and over) who love to praise their prospects.

It's all they have right now.

 

[joe dirte]

habs fans will use the fact that one is a Habs prospect to incorrectly choose Fleury.

 

[joe dirte]

I'd lean toward Fleury. I think he got really overlooked in that draft, playing on a terrible team. I still just don't really trust Liljegren's decisionmaking. He has that feel of a guy who is going to play and post some decent numbers, but make those critical mistakes at the worst times, that just kill you.

that really is pretty much the opposite of what he's developed into.

Stable dependable guy that will post average, unspectacular offensive numbers.

 

[The Great Weal]

I've never seen a fanbase overvalue their prospects as much as Habs fans on HF. Every day there is something new about how their prospects are absolutely unbelievable.

It's getting annoying to be honest. I know, nobody forced me to click on this, but it seems like every day there is a different Habs fan (or the same 3 or 4 over and over) who love to praise their prospects.

I'm a Habs fan and I voted Liljegren. I've seen Wings fans overvalue their own prospects like crazy and claim that they are much better than other prospects when they admit they don't know the other prospects. There is no need to criticize a fanbase, everyone overrates their own prospects because believe it or not, they are far more informed about their teams prospect. Also, they don't watch every single prospect for all other 30 teams.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I've never seen a fanbase overvalue their prospects as much as Habs fans on HF. Every day there is something new about how their prospects are absolutely unbelievable.

It's getting annoying to be honest. I know, nobody forced me to click on this, but it seems like every day there is a different Habs fan (or the same 3 or 4 over and over) who love to praise their prospects.

Are they not comparable prospects? I didn't even provide an assessment on Fleury or Liljegren I just wanted to hear feedback. Go cry me a river

Also this is coming from the guy who said Zadina was a better goal scorer than Caufield

 

[Randy Randerson]

I've never seen a fanbase overvalue their prospects as much as Habs fans on HF. Every day there is something new about how their prospects are absolutely unbelievable.

It's getting annoying to be honest. I know, nobody forced me to click on this, but it seems like every day there is a different Habs fan (or the same 3 or 4 over and over) who love to praise their prospects.

I think the Habs have a very vocal minority of homer posters that love to unduly pump the tires of their own prospects and to bash other teams & their prospects at any opportunity. I get the same feeling as you about HfHabs, but when I think about it, that's all due to like 5-6 posters

 

[Randy Randerson]

also, I think this is a fair comparison based on performance so far but I'll take Liljegren pretty safely: has proved he can handle a big role as the Marlies #1, great skater which is a tool that can cover faults in the NHL if it proves that he has them at that level, and there's a chance that his offense does come through at a level that Fleury probably won't ever reach. I see similar floors with a higher ceiling for Liljegren

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I think the Habs have a very vocal minority of homer posters that love to unduly pump the tires of their own prospects and to bash other teams & their prospects at any opportunity. I get the same feeling as you about HfHabs, but when I think about it, that's all due to like 5-6 posters

Okay but the same is true for literally every other team, especially the Leafs. Liljegren has been on the 1st page of the prospects forum since he was drafted

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Haven't paid attention to these prospects so didn't vote, but I remember when Liljegren was drafted it seemed like a steal at the time. What happened to lower his stock so significantly?

He dropped into the mid-1st round at the draft mostly because of mono. Since the 2017 draft:

2017-2018: very good rookie season in the AHL, 2nd best among the seven 18 year old prospects that played there in the last 25 years.

2018-19: good start to season, then picked up two ankle injuries in a row which caused him to go scoreless in 10 straight games and miss the WJC. He did have a strong playoffs (better than Foote, Vaak, etc) but it was not enough to consider this an impressive year overall.

Overall he missed 2 months of hockey this season and was rusty when he came back, dropping his numbers, but his development hasn’t been affected overall and if he finally gets to play on the top PP for the Marlie’s next year, he’ll be on track for a high end NHL career.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

How much have you seen of Liljegrin since he was drafted? He is unlikely to ever post decent offensive numbers. He has shifted into a more defensive puck-mover type role with the Marlies. He plays big minutes with the Marlies in a shutdown role (AFAIK, only Borgman has more defensive zone starts than him in the Playoffs this year, and drove play more than any other defender). If anything, I would think the fair knock of TL should be the lack of offense he provides.

a Defensive puck mover ? so someone who brings the puck in the Ozone and just lose it there cause he doesn't get assist ?

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I think the Habs have a very vocal minority of homer posters that love to unduly pump the tires of their own prospects and to bash other teams & their prospects at any opportunity. I get the same feeling as you about HfHabs, but when I think about it, that's all due to like 5-6 posters

Leafs are well known homers, more than the habs.

I would rank the homers this way:

1. Toronto
2. Montreal
3. Edmonton
4. Vancouver
5. Philly

 

[Randy Randerson]

Okay but the same is true for literally every other team, especially the Leafs. Liljegren has been on the 1st page of the prospects forum since he was drafted

I think there are more good HFLeafs posters who are active on the main boards than for HFHabs, there's definitely the bad in every fanbase including the Leafs but I don't think it's as big of a portion of the active main board posters as it is with the Habs

and no, Liljegren's thread was off the 1st page for months until a couple of weeks ago when it got active again, mostly because people are looking at hockeydb page and making grand assertions

Leafs are well known homers, more than the habs.

I would rank the homers this way:

1. Toronto
2. Montreal
3. Edmonton
4. Vancouver
5. Philly

HFLeafs has as many ridiculous homers as HFHabs who are active outside of the team's own boards, but there's a lot more good HFLeafs posters who frequent them than HFHabs. There might be a language component, every other NHL market is Anglo so that explains some of it. I spend most of my time outside of the Leafs board in the trade forum, prospects and polls, so the experience elsewhere may be different.