C Mikhail Grigorenko (2012, 12th, BUF; traded to COL) IV

[Dubi Doo]

Finnish reporter Sasha Huttunen(reliable, also works for a Finnish paper) posted on twitter that Grigorenko would have wanted to finish the season at Tampere Tappara (former club of Barkov). Things were all worked out between the parties but NHL nixed the move.

They really have to get that CHL/NHL thing sorted out since it's not beneficial for the players.

Is that why he wanted to stay with the Sabres?

 

[threeVo]

1+2 First Star and 26/31 at the dot? Is that correct?

 

[Paxon]

1+2 First Star and 26/31 at the dot? Is that correct?

Yes. He's taken a major step forward with his faceoffs this year. He had the best percentage of anyone in Buffalo, then was great in the dot for Russia during the WJCs.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

He is still an elite prospect. Just because he didnt become a top 6 center as a teenager doesn't discount his 1.5 ppg in the Q over his career.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

He scored the game winner and that goal was also the first all European goal in the history of the CHL (with 2 assists). Grigorenko assisted by Sorensen and Herzog.

 

[couture23]

He is still an elite prospect. Just because he didnt become a top 6 center as a teenager doesn't discount his 1.5 ppg in the Q over his career.

This cannot be stressed enough. Far too often do teenagers break into the league nowadays, but when one of them fails to make it he is automatically a bust.

 

[Mit Yarrum]

3pts and something like 26/31 at the dot. Dominant.

 

[AirBriere48]

11-10-21 in 13 GP since returning. How was he looked outside of the points?

 

[jc17]

This cannot be stressed enough. Far too often do teenagers break into the league nowadays, but when one of them fails to make it he is automatically a bust.

Can you name some players who have struggled at first in the NHL and then become very good? Not that I don't believe you, because I know guys have, I just am having trouble thinking of them.

I know Joe Thornton might be in this category, but can you name guys who stayed in juniors or struggled at first in the NHL?

 

[Analyzer*]

Can you name some players who have struggled at first in the NHL and then become very good? Not that I don't believe you, because I know guys have, I just am having trouble thinking of them.

I know Joe Thornton might be in this category, but can you name guys who stayed in juniors or struggled at first in the NHL?

Steven Stamkos. A lot of that had to do with his coach.

 

[Simerc]

11-10-21 in 13 GP since returning. How was he looked outside of the points?

I was at the game yesterday and he scored the GWG on a nice one-timer snap shot. Outside of that there were moments where I saw why he got sent back to the Remparts and other times where he looked like an NHLer, taking control of the play in a way not many juniors are able to.

Nick Sorensen also scored an amazing PK goal, deking the defensemen at full speed and going far side top corner with almost no angle.

Clapperton had a really good game, scoring 2 in the first 2 minutes and a beautiful assist on the PP later.

Both goalies were awful, especially the Armada's, who let in 3 wristers from the blueline, albeit with traffic in front of him.

 

[King In The North]

Can you name some players who have struggled at first in the NHL and then become very good? Not that I don't believe you, because I know guys have, I just am having trouble thinking of them.

I know Joe Thornton might be in this category, but can you name guys who stayed in juniors or struggled at first in the NHL?

I would say closer to 90% of prospects struggle first in the NHL. 1st rounders or not, it is very rare at all to see kids come in and not struggle. Success stories are heard a lot more than the slow starters.

 

[Passchendaele]

Can you name some players who have struggled at first in the NHL and then become very good? Not that I don't believe you, because I know guys have, I just am having trouble thinking of them.

I know Joe Thornton might be in this category, but can you name guys who stayed in juniors or struggled at first in the NHL?

Thornton bounced from 7 to 41 points in his sophomore season and Stamkos struggled for about... 40 games. He scored 50 goals in his 19 year old season (while Grigs was sent back to the QMJHL).

Not quite comparable. I think Grigorenko is the second coming of Filatov.

 

[Revo]

11-10-21 in 13 GP since returning. How was he looked outside of the points?

Lost at first, then found (some of?) his game and started to progressively make small improvements. Not enough games to predict.

 

[danyhabsfan]

Steven Stamkos. A lot of that had to do with his coach.

23 goals as a rookie is struggling

 

[Moskau]

Thornton bounced from 7 to 41 points in his sophomore season and Stamkos struggled for about... 40 games. He scored 50 goals in his 19 year old season (while Grigs was sent back to the QMJHL).

Not quite comparable. I think Grigorenko is the second coming of Filatov.

We're counting Grigorenko's lockout shortened season in which he played half the games as a full season now? And we're counting this year as his second full season. Who knew that Grigorenko was going to be a veteran next year. The guy has played 11 less NHL games than Thornton played in his rookie season. I watched a lot of Boston back then with the great Buffalo Boston rivalry and Boston wasn't 1/10th as bad as Buffalo has been these past two years.

Only Grigorenko gets compared to guys who went 1st overall. Only Grigorenko is considered to have played two full seasons when he's played 43 games total. If he wasn't Russian and he wasn't ranked #2 overall for a few months at the beginning of his draft year he would be just like any prospect taken #12 overall that has been sent down.

People need to stop treating this kid like he was taken 1st or 2nd overall.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Thornton bounced from 7 to 41 points in his sophomore season and Stamkos struggled for about... 40 games. He scored 50 goals in his 19 year old season (while Grigs was sent back to the QMJHL).

Not quite comparable. I think Grigorenko is the second coming of Filatov.

When thinking of Grigorenko, try not to compare him to top lottery selections and 1st overall picks. That isn't really fair in terms of the expectations of his development.

Look at the development curve of other 1st round centers. Guys two years older than him from '10 draft, such as Granlund, Schwartz and Bjugstad are all considered very good prospects with top 6 upside, and are just finding their way into the NHL now, and are still support players. That's 3+ years after being drafted.

From the '11 draft, Miller hasn't done much yet at the NHL level, Baertschi is still knocking on the door and Scheifele just made the NHL this year. Even Zibanejad and Strome are just starting to carve out a spot full-time at the NHL level, and they were lottery picks.

Less than two years after being drafted in '12, it's a bit premature to start writing Grigorenko off, unless you were writing the above guys off too. And comparing him to Stamkos and Thornton is a total straw man argument that doesn't make any sense. He wasn't even a top 10 pick, so look more at the guys drafted around them - Girgensons, Forsberg and Faksa. The challenging part for him, is he isn't eligible for the AHL like Forbserg and some others, so made a tougher decision for the Sabres.

 

[Crede777]

Can you name some players who have struggled at first in the NHL and then become very good? Not that I don't believe you, because I know guys have, I just am having trouble thinking of them.

I know Joe Thornton might be in this category, but can you name guys who stayed in juniors or struggled at first in the NHL?

Kyle Turris struggled but is now putting it together. Don't know how much of it is maturity vs. a new environment though.

I can't think of any recent Russian players who struggled but then put it together in the NHL, though. Svitov, Zherdev, Radulov, Filatov, Burmistrov, etc. They either seem to get it right away or flounder somewhere between the KHL and AHL. I guess Nikitin counts as he was a healthy scratch in St. Louis but is now a solid #5 guy in Columbus.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Kyle Turris struggled but is now putting it together. Don't know how much of it is maturity vs. a new environment though.

I can't think of any recent Russian players who struggled but then put it together in the NHL, though. Svitov, Zherdev, Radulov, Filatov, Burmistrov, etc. They either seem to get it right away or flounder somewhere between the KHL and AHL. I guess Nikitin counts as he was a healthy scratch in St. Louis but is now a solid #5 guy in Columbus.

Radulov never really struggled in the NHL. He started 11 games in the AHL and then finished the season in the NHL with 37 points in 64 games at 20. His second season he had 58 points.

Players like Filatov and Burmistrov were brought too fast in AHL/NHL just like Grigorenko. Burmi barely had a ppg 18 yo season in the OHL and then Atlanta decided w=he was ready for NHL. Hopefully, he can turn it around.

Dominating in juniors isn't a bad thing. The best draft class in recent years (2003) had to play an extra year in juniors at 19 and I don't think it hurt them.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Ryan Johansen. Grigorenko has had a similar path.. If he became anything near the level of RyJo I would be sooooooooooo happy

 

[Sundinisagod]

Can you name some players who have struggled at first in the NHL and then become very good? Not that I don't believe you, because I know guys have, I just am having trouble thinking of them.

I know Joe Thornton might be in this category, but can you name guys who stayed in juniors or struggled at first in the NHL?

Kadri.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Thornton bounced from 7 to 41 points in his sophomore season and Stamkos struggled for about... 40 games. He scored 50 goals in his 19 year old season (while Grigs was sent back to the QMJHL).

Not quite comparable. I think Grigorenko is the second coming of Filatov.

Aside from the less sexy names already mentioned, one that came to mind for me is Tlusty.

 

[pokerface1]

scoring pace in the Q is higher than in previous years and he has 24 pts in last 10 games. Those that watch him regularly in Quebec: have you seen improvements in his play since last year?

 

[Revo]

scoring pace in the Q is higher than in previous years and he has 24 pts in last 10 games. Those that watch him regularly in Quebec: have you seen improvements in his play since last year?

Yes. Not a dramatic increase to the point he's headed to the NHL ASAP, but sufficient enough to state without any doubts there is a real increase in overall level of play. Playoffs will tell the most important part of the story, especially with the two most productive forwards on the team still out with injury as of today.

 

[DrDangles]

23 goals as a rookie is struggling

Stamkos only had 3 or 4 goals the first half of his rookie season and looked to be in over his head IIRC.