Buffalo Bills Buffalo Bills 2020 Continued

[AustonsNostrils]

See NFL: - Can an intelligence test forecast which quarterback draft prospects will have NFL success?

Of all the variables included in our regression models, only two were significantly and consistently associated with a quarterback’s NFL success: whether he was a Heisman Trophy finalist and his Wonderlic score.

obviously it's not everything but if he had a 15 Wonderlic score I'd have more doubt about him. he's also humble and has good self awareness, he knows where he is deficient, he doesn't make excuses for himself. he'll never be Drew Brees or Joe Montana.

Jim Kelly frustrated the hell out of me, that team stalled on offence a lot and then would explode and then there were the Super Bowls, did Kelly play well in any of them? I am terrible at remembering games - I don't know how people do it, they'll be talking about a Sabres series 20 years ago game by game, I remember the teams involved or if something really memorable happened but that's it.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Beane and McDermott bought themselves a lot of goodwill - would take 2 non-playoff seasons in a row for them to lose their luster with most fans and the Pegulas.

 

[buffalowing88]

obviously it's not everything but if he had a 15 Wonderlic score I'd have more doubt about him. he's also humble and has good self awareness, he knows where he is deficient, he doesn't make excuses for himself. he'll never be Drew Brees or Joe Montana.

Jim Kelly frustrated the hell out of me, that team stalled on offence a lot and then would explode and then there were the Super Bowls, did Kelly play well in any of them? I am terrible at remembering games - I don't know how people do it, they'll be talking about a Sabres series 20 years ago game by game, I remember the teams involved or if something really memorable happened but that's it.

Interesting point about Kelly. He definitely had his flaws but I think history has sugarcoated it. In term of playoffs, when he was healthy he was good for the most part. I went back and watched the 1990 SB against the Giants and he basically guided us to field goal position and what should have been a win. With that said, he was also hurt or playing hurt in the other appearances and I was definitely less than impressed. Kelly is a good QB, but he has been glossed over for his flaws both on the field and off in recent years.

 

[Buffaloed]

Jim Kelly frustrated the hell out of me, that team stalled on offence a lot and then would explode and then there were the Super Bowls, did Kelly play well in any of them? I am terrible at remembering games - I don't know how people do it, they'll be talking about a Sabres series 20 years ago game by game, I remember the teams involved or if something really memorable happened but that's it.

Ted Marchibroda came up with the perfect offense for Kelly in the middle of the 1990 season. The type of simplified playbook of the K-Gun has become the norm in football. As we've seen in the Super Bowls and even with the Sabres 2005-2007 teams, you have to win the battle in the trenches.

Buffalo Bills' K-Gun offense was groundbreaking
"The offenses are more simple, there are smaller playbooks that there used to be, and it allows rookie quarterbacks more quickly the opportunity to tune in and develop," Levy said.

 

[Zman5778]

Beane and McDermott bought themselves a lot of goodwill - would take 2 non-playoff seasons in a row for them to lose their luster with most fans and the Pegulas.

I'm not even sure it's 2 non-playoff seasons. I think it'd be 2 seasons where we're not even in playoff contention.

 

[billsandsabres]

Taming Josh Allen's Arm: How Mechanical Tweaks Have Buffalo's QB Primed for a Year 3 Leap | Cover 1

 

[BFLO]

This is the mindset of most Bills fans - they expect/demand a Mahomes, who right now is the best QB in the sport. there are 32 starting QB positions in the league, if Allen tops out at #10 that's ok, but it won't be for the media and fans.
I get the feeling he either becomes one of the game's elite QB's statistically, top 5, or he gets labelled a semi-bust.

i don't think we're going to see football in 2020. we live in a country that was built on liberty and unlike other countries where people have lived under autocratic rule be they monarchs or fascist leaders they conform to arbitrary rules better than we do.

You'd have a point about fans and media expecting or demanding too much in a QB as good as Mahomes...if McBean hadn't explicitly passed on Mahomes, and Deshaun Watson, and Lamar Jackson.

This regime had the chance to draft any one of those 3 QBs without needing to trade up for them. And so far all 3 have been better than Allen, who they did have to trade up for.

I think its very fair to criticize "McBean" if Allen doesn't end up better or at least in the same tier as those guys.

 

[TalkingProuder]

You'd have a point about fans and media expecting or demanding too much in a QB as good as Mahomes...if McBean hadn't explicitly passed on Mahomes, and Deshaun Watson, and Lamar Jackson.

This regime had the chance to draft any one of those 3 QBs without needing to trade up for them. And so far all 3 have been better than Allen, who they did have to trade up for.

I think its very fair to criticize "McBean" if Allen doesn't end up better or at least in the same tier as those guys.

How many coaches get 2 MVP level QBs and 3 Pro Bowl QBs to choose from in their first two drafts?

Usually you need a top 3 pick to get a talent like that.

 

[BFLO]

How many coaches get 2 MVP level QBs and 3 Pro Bowl QBs to choose from in their first two drafts?

Usually you need a top 3 pick to get a talent like that.

You're right, normally you do need a top 3 pick to get a top talent like that. But these 3 QBs were there for the taking and this regime decided to pass on them and pick Allen instead.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Allen can absolutely be as good as Watson or Lamar Jackson, so let's wait and see.

 

[Dirty Dog]

How many coaches get 2 MVP level QBs and 3 Pro Bowl QBs to choose from in their first two drafts?

Usually you need a top 3 pick to get a talent like that.

Probably most since a ton of the MVP and probowl QBs were drafted not only outside the top 3, but outside the first round. Ragging on NFL teams for who they didnt draft, rather than who they did draft, is never going to be a fair way to do it.

 

[TalkingProuder]

Probably most since a ton of the MVP and probowl QBs were drafted not only outside the top 3, but outside the first round. Ragging on NFL teams for who they didnt draft, rather than who they did draft, is never going to be a fair way to do it.

Tom Brady was a long time ago. If teams let a guy drop to the 4th or 6th round and they beat the odds thats different than passing on 3 Pro Bowl QBs who were drafted in the 1st round.

What MVP QBs did Rex Ryan pass on?

 

[CrazyPsycho]

Allen can absolutely be as good as Watson or Lamar Jackson, so let's wait and see.

Im highly curious to see how Lamars game develops, especially if as he gets more banged up thru the year. He struggled in game here last year, he has a hard time on the outside throws

 

[Fezzy126]

Its an old roster. Every team has recent young draft picks they call their core.

I don't put much stock into average age, but football outsiders does a snap-weighted analysis every year.

Snap-Weighted Age: 2019 NFL Rosters

By their analysis we're pretty close to average for every position group except RB & WR. I assume the RB age goes down significantly this year with the release of Gore.

The thing I would ask is this - Is youth a good thing? Philadelphia had the oldest snap -weighted age for their offensive line, but they were also the #1 rated unit by PFF. Baltimore & Dallas have an average age similar to ours and they also had dominant offensive lines. Jax had the youngest O-line in the league and they were terrible. I'd rather focus on talent than age; it was fine having a 35 year old Kyle Williams as long as the GM managed his load and planned for the future with draft picks like Phillips & Oliver.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Tom Brady was a long time ago. If teams let a guy drop to the 4th or 6th round and they beat the odds thats different than passing on 3 Pro Bowl QBs who were drafted in the 1st round.

What MVP QBs did Rex Ryan pass on?

Every year or two there are pro-bowl QBs that get drafted outside of the top 10 or 15 that teams obviously missed. I just don't see the big point other than he passed on mahomes and watson, which a lot of teams did. And sorry, but it is too early to tell on jackson for a lot of reasons.

Are they misses, yup. Are they misses that should be counted as anything notable? Nope, or else you might as well give each coach in the league a giant strike as well. But if you want to hold who they didn't draft against them, I think that's fair. I just think its always better to just evaluate who they did draft.

basically, if Allen turns into a top 8-10 qb in the league, that should be worthy of praise. It’s tough to find that, its a huge win, and most teams don’t have that. If the test is “is he better than the best qb in the league,” well then that’s your choice but it’s a bit odd and never going to be met. If you just compare players to who could have been drafted instead, then 95% of the players are worthy of criticism

 

[TalkingProuder]

Every year or two there are pro-bowl QBs that get drafted outside of the top 10 or 15 that teams obviously missed. I just don't see the big point other than he passed on mahomes and watson, which a lot of teams did. And sorry, but it is too early to tell on jackson for a lot of reasons.

Are they misses, yup. Are they misses that should be counted as anything notable? Nope, or else you might as well give each coach in the league a giant strike as well. But if you want to hold who they didn't draft against them, I think that's fair. I just think its always better to just evaluate who they did draft.

basically, if Allen turns into a top 8-10 qb in the league, that should be worthy of praise. It’s tough to find that, its a huge win, and most teams don’t have that. If the test is “is he better than the best qb in the league,” well then that’s your choice but it’s a bit odd and never going to be met. If you just compare players to who could have been drafted instead, then 95% of the players are worthy of criticism

Every year or two there are pro-bowl QBs that get drafted outside of the top 10 or 15

No way. 2017 was a very good QB draft at the top.

You are way overestimating how much opportunity is out there. We just happened to have a flood of QB talent that arrived when McD did.

Please name the MVP QB's or 3 Pro Bowl QB's in one draft that Rex skipped out on.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Every year or two there are pro-bowl QBs that get drafted outside of the top 10 or 15

No way. 2017 was a very good QB draft at the top.

You are way overestimating how much opportunity is out there. We just happened to have a flood of QB talent that arrived when McD did.

Yes, what I said is actually true. Here are the 2010s drafts.


2011 - Dalton (2nd round)
2012 - Wilson (3rd), Foles (3rd), Cousins (3rd)
2014 - Bridgewater (32 overall)
2016 - Prescott (4th)
2017 - the mahomes/watson draft

Please name the MVP QB's or 3 Pro Bowl QB's in one draft that Rex skipped out on.

I never said that Rex Ryan did that, and I have no idea why you keep asking that as no one said that happened. I don't even know what that would prove?

 

[TalkingProuder]

Yes, what I said is actually true. Here are the 2010s drafts.


2011 - Dalton (2nd round)
2012 - Wilson (3rd), Foles (3rd), Cousins (3rd)
2014 - Bridgewater (32 overall)
2016 - Prescott (4th)
2017 - the mahomes/watson draft





I never said that Rex Ryan did that, and I have no idea why you keep asking that as no one said that happened. I don't even know what that would prove?

You said 2 or 3 every year and that list ain't it.

Dalton-9 years and 3 Pro-Bowls..ok, good enough. Where are the other Pro Bowl QB's in 2011?

2012 Foles is a Pro Bowl QB then what about Tyrod Taylor?!

2014 Bridgewater isn't even a good starter. He's an adequate backup.

Prescott-where are the other Pro Bowl QB's in 2016 after the top ten?

2017-Great QB draft and we punted.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You said 2 or 3 every year and that list ain't it.

Dalton-9 years and 3 Pro-Bowls..ok, good enough. Where are the other Pro Bowl QB's in 2011?

2012 Foles is a Pro Bowl QB then what about Tyrod Taylor?!

2014 Bridgewater isn't even a good starter. He's an adequate backup.

Prescott-where are the other Pro Bowl QB's in 2016 after the top ten?

2017-Great QB draft and we punted.

Those are all pro bowl qbs and literally what I said (that every year or two there are pro bowl qbs drafted outside the top 15... You are the one who made this weird qualification of being a pro bowl qb as if that means anything and then said what i typed wasn't true.

Yes, we punted on the 2017 nfl qb draft and went with the 2018 one, and that is completely tbd.

This is a very dumb argument and I still have no idea what your point is other than you are angry they didn't draft a qb in 2017

 

[TalkingProuder]

Those are all pro bowl qbs and literally what I said (that every year or two there are pro bowl qbs drafted outside the top 15... You are the one who made this weird qualification of being a pro bowl qb as if that means anything and then said what i typed wasn't true.

Yes, we punted on the 2017 nfl qb draft and went with the 2018 one, and that is completely tbd.

This is a very dumb argument and I still have no idea what your point is other than you are angry they didn't draft a qb in 2017

I went through each one. Your QB list not convincing. You actually buy that Teddy Bridgewater is a Pro Bowl QB? Nick Foles made ONE and I gave it to you..although he has been a backup the last few years. The idea that you can pull 2-3 Pro Bowl QB's a year without a top 3 pick is silly.

 

[SundherDome]

I went through each one. Your QB list not convincing. You actually buy that Teddy Bridgewater is a Pro Bowl QB? Nick Foles made ONE and I gave it to you..although he has been a backup the last few years. The idea that you can pull 2-3 Pro Bowl QB's a year without a top 3 pick is silly.

He actually proved that. Also, there is no way to project that Mahomes, Watson, Mayfield, Darnold or any qb we chose would be what they are today in Buffalo. QB is a science that will never be exacted as there are to many variables.

 

[TalkingProuder]

He actually proved that. Also, there is no way to project that Mahomes, Watson, Mayfield, Darnold or any qb we chose would be what they are today in Buffalo. QB is a science that will never be exacted as there are to many variables.

No, because 2017 was the draft brought up and the only year he listed that meets his criteria was 2012.

Also, there is no way to project that Mahomes, Watson, Mayfield, Darnold or any qb we chose would be what they are today in Buffalo.

That sounds like a cop out. So if Mahomes or Watson wouldn't be good enough in Buffalo what hope does Allen have?

I'll give you that QB discussion will never be purely settled. My view on QB's is that the truly elite players would be good anywhere..your Mahomes, Marino, Manning, etc. Lots of guys that can be good in the middle that fluctuate based on circumstance. You see a Tannehill here. And then guys that are just bad and would be flops anywhere. Those would be guys like EJ Manuel, Blaine Gabbert, etc

 

[tsujimoto74]

Allen can absolutely be as good as Watson or Lamar Jackson, so let's wait and see.

That's the thing, Allen was a big development project when we picked him, and that was a secret to exactly no one. He's not a finished product yet, but the progress he's made is very promising.
Plus, if you want to compare to other QBs around the league, you also have to remember the fact that the Bills play in an open stadium in Buffalo; not every good QB is a good QB for the Bills.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I went through each one. Your QB list not convincing. You actually buy that Teddy Bridgewater is a Pro Bowl QB? Nick Foles made ONE and I gave it to you..although he has been a backup the last few years. The idea that you can pull 2-3 Pro Bowl QB's a year without a top 3 pick is silly.

I know i started this dumb argument, but he is a pro bowl qb, it is not subjective and up for debate. I literally just said that you can get pro bowl QBs after the top 10, every year or two and I'm not sure why you are pushing back on that. It is true, i am not saying they are good QBs. I am just pointing out you can. Probowls are a very silly metric for QB success.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No, because 2017 was the draft brought up and the only year he listed that meets his criteria was 2012.

Also, there is no way to project that Mahomes, Watson, Mayfield, Darnold or any qb we chose would be what they are today in Buffalo.

That sounds like a cop out. So if Mahomes or Watson wouldn't be good enough in Buffalo what hope does Allen have?

I'll give you that QB discussion will never be purely settled. My view on QB's is that the truly elite players would be good anywhere..your Mahomes, Marino, Manning, etc. Lots of guys that can be good in the middle that fluctuate based on circumstance. You see a Tannehill here. And then guys that are just bad and would be flops anywhere. Those would be guys like EJ Manuel, Blaine Gabbert, etc

What are your thoughts on lamar jackson? On the ravens going forward or if the Bills took him? I am not a big fan of his future