Proposal: Buffalo and Rangers not involving Eichel

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Tony DeAngelo is a toxic, one-dimensional offensive defenseman who can't play defense and put up more than 30 points once in his career
.

Name one toxic thing he's done since he's been with the Rangers. I'll wait.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I actually really like ADA and would love to keep him but unfortunately he is the odd man out because of his salary. I believe Fox is better and cheaper, Trouba has a no trade and we can not afford to have 18 million tied up on Right Defenseman in 2 years when DeAngelo's arbitration award expires and Fox needs a contract. As mentioned by you above, it is a position of strength with Lundqvist and Schneider waiting in the wings. Also something most of my fellow Ranger fans forget you need to give value to get value. I agree that Buchnevich, DeAngelo and Georgiev is a lot to give up but prospects like Cozens don't grow on trees. After reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that it is a very good proposal because both fanbases hate it!! LOL

Nah, it's straight trash for Buffalo. (1) Blue chip prospects rarely get moved at all, and, when they are, it's not for middling role players; (2) the Sabres have more than enough RHD already; (3) the Sabres are desperate for more long-term answers at C.

TL;DR we still don't want Deangelo and you aren't getting Cozens

 

[MarkusKetterer]

What Buffalo needs to do is figure out how to build a second offensive line behind Eichel. They still haven't done that. Maybe Cozens can be the answer. I don't suspect Eichel will wait much longer to win before he wants out.

If Krueger has any balls whatsoever, he could have two scoring lines behind Eichel (which means the following line combo suggestions will not happen):

Skinner - Eichel - Tage
Hall - Eakins - Reinhart
Olofsson - Staal - Cozens

that looks way better than:

Hall - Eichel - Reinhart
Skinner - Staal - Olofsson
Who cares - Eakins - mystery box

 

[sufferer]

This has already been explained ad nauseam through this thread.

Read.

You keep responding, so you obviously care.

But keep sticking your foot in your mouth. It’s fun watching you make a fool of yourself.

Only you care.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Only you care.

Keep contradicting yourself.

 

[Djp]

As mentioned by you above, it is a position of strength with Lundqvist and Schneider waiting in the wings. Also something most of my fellow Ranger fans forget you need to give value to get value.

There can be a position of strength but there also can be the point of desparstion. If you draft too much at one position you can hurt player development and their value. On here to many think their prospects will be future stars and they aren’t.

They overvalue is heir prospects

At the same time , thry think they can easily get high profile prospects at be
Ow market costs.

There can be curtain situations that quantity for quality could be beneficial. When teams have quality depth behind the star player they trade. Those situations are rare.

These situations are whrn teams have depth one place and have voids elsewhere that the trade can fix.

I agree that Buchnevich, DeAngelo and Georgiev is a lot to give up but prospects like Cozens don't grow on trees. After reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that it is a very good proposal because both fanbases hate it!! LOL

Buchnevich is a nothing special dime a dozen player.

DeAngelo is paid two much for one season. He’s too much one dimensional. Thus type of player is a bottom pair PP specialists.

Georgiev is An unproven starting goalie. He can play backup goalie but nothing more has shown.

These 3 players combined don’t get you a top 10 pick. You trade them for picks and prospects, they don’t get you a top 10 pick.

Give 2 yrs left on them and retain salary on them you can get something that isn’t bad...just not top 10.

Cozens is just not getting traded.

 

[Djp]

Coming from a Rangers fan that has not wanted to deal TonyD for a second.....

The reason he is put in trade talk is simple

1. Trouba NMC
2. Fox is better
3. Lundkvist is on the right side, will be ELC, and needs to be here sooner rather than later due to signing before becoming a UFA.

Deangelo's name was in trade talks because

1. RFA
2. Dealing from a position of strength.

Common sense people. I rather have DeAngelo putting up 70 points a season, especially when he actually gets PP1 time for a full season.

Deangrlo putying up 70 pts...I dint see it ever happening unless he’s in a top PP in the league that is scoring at a way above percentage level ever.

The thing is there is strength, but then there is trade value. Trade value comes from lower salary relative to playerskill level. More teams would be interested in Fox or the prospects than ADA.

Finding the right trading partner...

Buffalo isn’t it. They have 4 NHL RD a n Risto, Jokiharju, Montour, and Miller.
Also nit forget..while Dahlin is left handed and plays left side. Whrn he was a prospect he played on the right side.

Buffalo also has prospects in Borgen, Fitzgerald, and Lasksonen. The last two are ED exempt.
On the LD they have ED exempt prospects in Bryson, Samuelson, and Johnson.

So Buffalo does not need a RD. They might want a vet LD in the future if they traded or did not sign Risto, Montour, Miller and shifted Dahlin to the right.

In terms of 24 and younger forwards buffalo has
C Eichel, Cozens, Mittlestadt, Asplund
RW Reinhart, Quinn, Thompson , Pekar
LW Olofsson, Peterka , Ruostsalainen
There are others.

At Goalie Buffalo has 2 decent prospects. One in UPL who led Fumkand to a medal st juniirscoukd pkay fir Sabres in 21/22or 22/23. I dine see as a need they need to acquire an unproven goalie.

The Sabres aren’t trading Cozens.

The deal you propose creates a big ho,e at center, but doesn’t address Sabres needs which would be center depth, LW prospect depth, and top pair young D

What Buffalo needs to do is figure out how to build a second offensive line behind Eichel. They still haven't done that. Maybe Cozens can be the answer. I don't suspect Eichel will wait much longer to win before he wants out.

If m not worried..this is what I expect in the starting line up.

Hall-Eichel-xxx
xxx-Staal-Cozens
Skinner-xxx-Reinhart

The missing center could be Girgensons, Eakin, Mittlestadt, someone they acquire, and midseason it coukd be Cozens.
The 2 wingers could be...Olofsson, Thompson, Quinn, someone the acquire, Girgensons, Mittlestadt


Buffalo has Eichrl under team control 6 more years. 2 of thrm are before a NMC kicks in.

 

[MillerTime]

What Buffalo needs to do is figure out how to build a second offensive line behind Eichel. They still haven't done that. Maybe Cozens can be the answer. I don't suspect Eichel will wait much longer to win before he wants out.

Did they not just do that getting Staal and Hall ? 2nd line is looking like Skinner-Staal-Reinhart. I think that can be a good 2nd line.

 

[Barnaby]

Both teams are strong at RD and lack left D. Both teams are lacking at center. I don’t see these teams being a fit to deal at all. I think the Rangers have more outgoing value than incoming especially taking back a cap dump. However, I don’t think this deal makes sense for either team. Buffalo has a lot of hope in Cozens. The Rangers likely intend to compete for a playoff spot. This takes them out of that conversation. The Rangers take a step back - to hopefully, eventually, take 2 steps forward. The star studded group of 19 years olds sounds great in theory, but it seldom works out. You need vets and Buch and ADA are young vets. If the Rangers make a deal involving ADA/Buch then I think it’s more about bringing guys that are better fits like a C and/or LD who are probably more in the same age bracket. Mid 20’s, not prospects.

Side note: I think people underrate ADA’s value. He’s made out to be Marc Andre Bergeron around here. He’s a bonafide 1PP QB. I’m not saying he’s a fit for Buffalo but plenty of teams could benefit from a player like him.

 

[SRHRangers]

There can be a position of strength but there also can be the point of desparstion. If you draft too much at one position you can hurt player development and their value. On here to many think their prospects will be future stars and they aren’t.

They overvalue is heir prospects

At the same time , thry think they can easily get high profile prospects at be
Ow market costs.

There can be curtain situations that quantity for quality could be beneficial. When teams have quality depth behind the star player they trade. Those situations are rare.

These situations are whrn teams have depth one place and have voids elsewhere that the trade can fix.



Buchnevich is a nothing special dime a dozen player.

DeAngelo is paid two much for one season. He’s too much one dimensional. Thus type of player is a bottom pair PP specialists.

Georgiev is An unproven starting goalie. He can play backup goalie but nothing more has shown.

These 3 players combined don’t get you a top 10 pick. You trade them for picks and prospects, they don’t get you a top 10 pick.

Give 2 yrs left on them and retain salary on them you can get something that isn’t bad...just not top 10.

Cozens is just not getting traded.

Thing is, I don't want this trade proposal, or deal ADA.

I'm just laughing at people that don't have the common sense to realize why it's ADA that people put into deals.

I wouldn't want to give up that much value for Cozens. I'm actually driving the Rangers for Toews bus lol

 

[Djp]

Both teams are strong at RD and lack left D. Both teams are lacking at center. I don’t see these teams being a fit to deal at all. I think the Rangers have more outgoing value than incoming especially taking back a cap dump. However, I don’t think this deal makes sense for either team. Buffalo has a lot of hope in Cozens. The Rangers likely intend to compete for a playoff spot. This takes them out of that conversation. The Rangers take a step back - to hopefully, eventually, take 2 steps forward. The star studded group of 19 years olds sounds great in theory, but it seldom works out. You need vets and Buch and ADA are young vets. If the Rangers make a deal involving ADA/Buch then I think it’s more about bringing guys that are better fits like a C and/or LD who are probably more in the same age bracket. Mid 20’s, not prospects.

Side note: I think people underrate ADA’s value. He’s made out to be Marc Andre Bergeron around here. He’s a bonafide 1PP QB. I’m not saying he’s a fit for Buffalo but plenty of teams could benefit from a player like him.

I agree with most of what you said...but..

On LD buffalo has a Dahlin.

They have 3 young ED exempt LD prospects. McCabe is in his last yr before UFA.



Buffalo might be looking for more short term LD, not so much long term player

Rangers and Sabres aren’t a match.

ADA is at a nylander level of bring overvalued by home team.

 

[Barnaby]

I agree with most of what you said...but..

On LD buffalo has a Dahlin.

They have 3 young ED exempt LD prospects. McCabe is in his last yr before UFA.

ADA is at a nylander level of bring overvalued by home team.

I'll disagree on that part. I think he's undervalued by other teams fans. I think he's talked about a lot as a 3rd pairing PP specialist and I think he's more than that. I actually do think Nylander is a good comparable value wise though. A 25 year old defenseman who was pacing for 70 points and even garnered a couple Norris votes has value. I think he'd crush it with a strong defensive partner playing on some teams 2nd pairing with top PP time. I don't see Buffalo being that team though. I could easily see him getting a contract on par with a Torey Krug if he's allowed to hit free agency in a couple seasons (he'd also be a couple years younger). His defensive game isn't his top strength, but I think it's with noting that it's not an abomination either.

 

[smoneil]

I agree with most of what you said...but..

On LD buffalo has a Dahlin.

They have 3 young ED exempt LD prospects. McCabe is in his last yr before UFA.



Buffalo might be looking for more short term LD, not so much long term player

Rangers and Sabres aren’t a match.

ADA is at a nylander level of bring overvalued by home team.

The two teams aren't great trade partners, because both teams lack in the same area (the Sabres have the blue chip #1 LD, but other than that, your post basically describes the Rangers LD as well. Lots of talented kids in the pipeline. One clearly established young player who is part of the future. One vet whose deal is expiring this year--it's a little eerie, actually).

That said, based on the posts in this thread--yours included--there don't seem to be a lot of posters outside of ADA's home team who have bothered to watch him play. Hell, twice on this page of the thread you tossed out the idea that ADA is a PP specialist. I've literally lost count of the times Rangers fans have corrected that misconception and shown that ADA's ratio of ES to PP is a hell of a lot lower than most top producers. Most of his points come from ES. When you and other Buffalo posters come in here after REPEATEDLY having that fact* pointed out to you, and still trot out the BS about him being a PP specialist, do you honestly expect any of us to give a hoot whether you think he's "overvalued"? You can't value players you don't watch, bud.

And frankly, that's why this thread is on page 7. It isn't because Buffalo fans don't want to make this trade. Almost every Rangers fan in here has acknowledged the argument that it really isn't a fit for Buffalo based on team needs. This thread is still going because Buffalo fans have felt the need to throw out BS claim after BS claim about the players in the initial Rangers offer. Here's a question--if every Buffalo player is God on skates and every Rangers player is crap, why do you have to go back literally 10 years to find a season where Buffalo finished higher in the standings than the Rangers? Why, during those ten years, has Buffalo finished dead last more than once, something the Rangers have literally never done in their history (never finished bottom 5, in fact)?

When Buffalo fans have to make up and repeat lies to make a player sound worse, and when the Buffalo roster continually does nothing on the ice, do you think that maybe, just MAYBE, it isn't the Rangers fans over-valuing their players?

* And to be clear, this is a fact. Your opinion about him being a PP specialist is factually incorrect and is easily proven to be incorrect.

 

[Barnaby]

Not to beat a dead horse, but there's a reason why top picks are seldom, if ever traded, in deals like this. Forgetting that the teams don't match up well it's just too much risk for both GM's. This is the type of deal that could make either GM look brutal.

1. Rangers basically take a big step back while Cozens develops and the Rangers goal of making the playoffs is almost definitely not happening. That may be all well and good if Cozens becomes a future #1 center. That's not all well in good if he busts or even just becomes a solid middle 6 option.

2. Sabres would improve today, but they are trading a guy that is potentially great value on an ELC and potentially is incredibly value to a team like Buffalo who has difficulty getting free agents absent an overpayment. If Buch and ADA walked in 2 years, then Cozens might very well be an absolute stud by then. If that happens there'd be hell to pay in Buffalo. I'm sure Eichel would love watching his teammates walk while Cozens becomes a star in Manhattan.

 

[Djp]

I'll disagree on that part. I think he's undervalued by other teams fans. I think he's talked about a lot as a 3rd pairing PP specialist and I think he's more than that. I actually do think Nylander is a good comparable value wise though. A 25 year old defenseman who was pacing for 70 points and even garnered a couple Norris votes has value. I think he'd crush it with a strong defensive partner playing on some teams 2nd pairing with top PP time. I don't see Buffalo being that team though. I could easily see him getting a contract on par with a Torey Krug if he's allowed to hit free agency in a couple seasons (he'd also be a couple years younger). His defensive game isn't his top strength, but I think it's with noting that it's not an abomination either.

What sort of math projects him to 70 pts?

83 pts in 129 games is a low 50s per 82g season

Sure he coukd fit on a middle pair only if his partner was a great defenseman. If he’s that good you want him in your top pair against opponents top line. ADA wouldn’t be used in late game protect lead situations.

I look at him like Jake Gardiner.

The two teams aren't great trade partners, because both teams lack in the same area (the Sabres have the blue chip #1 LD, but other than that, your post basically describes the Rangers LD as well. Lots of talented kids in the pipeline. One clearly established young player who is part of the future. One vet whose deal is expiring this year--it's a little eerie, actually).

That said, based on the posts in this thread--yours included--there don't seem to be a lot of posters outside of ADA's home team who have bothered to watch him play. Hell, twice on this page of the thread you tossed out the idea that ADA is a PP specialist. I've literally lost count of the times Rangers fans have corrected that misconception and shown that ADA's ratio of ES to PP is a hell of a lot lower than most top producers. Most of his points come from ES. When you and other Buffalo posters come in here after REPEATEDLY having that fact* pointed out to you, and still trot out the BS about him being a PP specialist, do you honestly expect any of us to give a hoot whether you think he's "overvalued"? You can't value players you don't watch, bud.

And frankly, that's why this thread is on page 7. It isn't because Buffalo fans don't want to make this trade. Almost every Rangers fan in here has acknowledged the argument that it really isn't a fit for Buffalo based on team needs. This thread is still going because Buffalo fans have felt the need to throw out BS claim after BS claim about the players in the initial Rangers offer. Here's a question--if every Buffalo player is God on skates and every Rangers player is crap, why do you have to go back literally 10 years to find a season where Buffalo finished higher in the standings than the Rangers? Why, during those ten years, has Buffalo finished dead last more than once, something the Rangers have literally never done in their history (never finished bottom 5, in fact)?

When Buffalo fans have to make up and repeat lies to make a player sound worse, and when the Buffalo roster continually does nothing on the ice, do you think that maybe, just MAYBE, it isn't the Rangers fans over-valuing their players?

* And to be clear, this is a fact. Your opinion about him being a PP specialist is factually incorrect and is easily proven to be incorrect.

Buffalo has a blue chip #1LD...rangers do not.

They have some prospect potential.

Dahlin isn’t counted in buffalo pipeline. Nor is Jokiharju.

A player who is getting a bunch of his points because of lines m situation, on top PP unit mattters in evaluation vs a role he’d play on a different team, especially if the already have a 1PP Dman

I’m not saying Rangers players are crap...rangers fans challenge Toronto on thinking theirs are studs who when traded should get a haul.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I find the concept of Buffalo fans avoiding their house fire and telling NYR fans how flammable their home is pretty funny

 

[MarkusKetterer]

FWIW I would love having ADA on the Sabres. However I would not give up Cozens for him. And currently it would be only if we could find new homes for 2 of Risto, Montour and Miller.

 

[DropTheGloves]

I find the concept of Buffalo fans avoiding their house fire and telling NYR fans how flammable their home is pretty funny

I myself find it funny that Rangers fans are trying to force a player they apparently value very highly on a team that doesn’t need or want him. It’s the only reason this thread is seven pages.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I myself find it funny that Rangers fans are trying to force a player they apparently value very highly on a team that doesn’t need or want him. It’s the only reason this thread is seven pages.

Even funnier is that your “rebuild” has lasted 8 years yet there doesn’t seem to be any plan in place. I haven’t been to Buffalo myself but is the struggle for mediocrity a local trait?

 

[DropTheGloves]

Even funnier is that your “rebuild” has lasted 8 years yet there doesn’t seem to be any plan in place. I haven’t been to Buffalo myself but is the struggle for mediocrity a local trait?

I’m not a Sabres fan sooo



(Cue you digging through my post history to figure who I do cheer for, then insulting them too)

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I’m not a Sabres fan sooo



(Cue you digging through my post history to figure who I do cheer for, then insulting them too)

That’s fine, insert Edmonton and add 6 more rebuild years..I’m sure it’s a helluva town with a creepy pay for a date owner

 

[DropTheGloves]

That’s fine, insert Edmonton and add 6 more rebuild years..I’m sure it’s a helluva town with a creepy pay for a date owner

Nailed it. You know that insulting one’s team/city isn’t, like, an argument or counter-point right?

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Nailed it. You know that insulting one’s team/city isn’t, like, an argument or counter-point right?

You had 2 decent seasons in the last 14-15 years, good luck with that

 

[DropTheGloves]

You had 2 decent seasons in the last 14-15 years, good luck with that

Given I’d guess that’s the entirety of your lifespan to date, I can see how that might feel like an especially long time.

 

[smoneil]

Buffalo has a blue chip #1LD...rangers do not.

They have some prospect potential.

Dahlin isn’t counted in buffalo pipeline. Nor is Jokiharju.

I...literally said exactly that in the post that you are quoting. Not sure what you're getting at there. At no point did I ever indicate that the Rangers had anyone--either on the roster OR on the way--even close to Dahlin. It was literally the first thing I stipulated.

A player who is getting a bunch of his points because of lines m situation, on top PP unit mattters in evaluation vs a role he’d play on a different team, especially if the already have a 1PP Dman

I’m not saying Rangers players are crap...rangers fans challenge Toronto on thinking theirs are studs who when traded should get a haul.

I swear to God the goal posts must be on wheels in Buffalo, because y'all move them around every time someone points out that your "argument" is invalid. You've spent countless posts whining about how DeAngelo has no value because he's a "power play specialist." After it was pointed out--repeatedly--that most of his points came 5v5 (he was top 4 scoring overall, and tied for 3rd overall in even strength points), you are now shifting to crediting his "lines m situation" which doesn't even make sense.

One more time for those in the back: DeAngelo is NOT a PP specialist. He was among the very top/elite ES scorers in the league among defensemen. In fact, he put up exactly the same about of PP points as Dahlin, in less PP TOI per game, while also scoring 13 more ES points (No, I am not saying that ADA is better than or more valuable that Dahlin--He's got 5 years on him compared to Dahlin). The more often you repeat the "PP specialist" line, the more ridiculous you look.