We're going to be a miserable team to play.
While I'm not as stung about Lemieux as you, this was pretty much my reaction as well. I also have zero issue using assets/bargaining chips, players or picks, to acquire a guy like Kane, which is just what TM said he was going to do. I especially agree with the bolded parts. Like all trades, who knows how it will look 2 or 10 years hence, say when Joel Armia morphs into Jari Kurri sarcasm, but for me, right now, I love it for the return and for the aggressiveness it showed.I love this trade...
Kane is legit, just needs to stay healthy. The character stuff I'm not looking much into, he needs a fresh start .Let's give it to him. On the ice the kid goes hard and is tough. I see him going 30-40 with Mcdavid or Eichel.
Bogosian is much harder to play against then Myers. Myers forces being physical and get penalized a lot for it.
I wasn't sold on Armia, he has improved I just don't think he's gonna be a top line guy.Maybe a 3rd line winger imo
Lemieux is the only one that stings a little for me, I don't see him ever being 30+ goal guy like Kane can be..I say at best he's a Brendan Gallagher just a bit bigger.
Kane is the best player in this deal.
While I'm not as stung about Lemieux as you, this was pretty much my reaction as well. I also have zero issue using assets/bargaining chips, players or picks, to acquire a guy like Kane, which is just what TM said he was going to do. I especially agree with the bolded parts. Like all trades, who knows how it will look 2 or 10 years hence, say when Joel Armia morphs into Jari Kurri sarcasm, but for me, right now, I love it for the return and for the aggressiveness it showed.
That will certainly be a nice change from being a miserable team to watch.
Can't wait until next year. Even if we suck pts wise it will be so much fun to watch young future superstars play. Kane, McEichel, Reinhart, Grigs all joining the squad. Going to be awesome thing to watch. Going to be plenty of growing pains though.
A lot will also depend on whether Kane is here after he goes UFA in 3 years. We traded 3 assets who were under team control for a long time, for one that might be gone in 3 years. In addition to the injury, character, chemistry risks that everyone has already discussed, this is one of the biggest risks of the deal.
Also, given that Myers is going to be paid so much less in real dollars over the next several years (I think it's $6 or 8 million) and that we retained half of Stafford's salary, I would have thought that we could have traded one less asset. That money might not mean much to Pegula, but apparently it was worth a lot to Winnipeg, which is operating under an internal cap.
Jets fans are already wanting Armia on the first line now and talking he will be a 35 goal scorer in the NHL.
I was never that big on Armia. Didn't think he has the drive to be that successful.
In addition to Comrie, Connor Hellebuyck is at No. 6 and the Jets even consider RPI's Jason Kasdorf, who's been injured for most of the season, in this stable, too.
Few days later. Still don't like the deal. From a value stand point it's way off IMO. Armia or the 1st should not have been included or Buffalo should have gotten back one of Winnipeg's A goalie prospects. Or better yet the Myers Bogosian swap would have been better not included.
I read almost every post I could from Winnipeg fans on Bogosian and the majority of their fans say he is still prone to terrible decision making on the defensive side of the puck. Furthermore his offensive game is all but gone now that he's concentrating on defense first. That's not a good thing. Having to completely take away one part of your game just to become a passable defensemen 6 years into your career is a red flag to me. Myers is on a historically bad offensive team but the main strength in his offense game is still there and he's still quite good at it. Meanwhile he's been near flawless defensively this year and has gotten rid of the bad decisions that still plague Bogosian. To me there is a sizeable gap between the two.
Here's where it gets worse from a value standpoint. Bogosian makes twice as much as Myers in real dollars. For Pegula that means nothing but for Winnipeg? That should have been a huge positive in the trade that Murray should have exploited. Not only that but Buffalo retained half on Stafford so Winnipeg has room to acquire another forward at the deadline. So why was Murray adding and adding?
From a player standpoint.
Myers >> Bogosian
From a value standpoint.
Myers >>>> Bogosian
The second part of the trade that bothers me is Murray's inability to get one of Winnipeg's A goaltender prospects. They have three of them and he got nothing. It would have been the equivalent of instead of giving Winnipeg Lemieux we gave them Jordan Samuels-Thomas back.
That's pretty much how I feel about this. The 1st or Armia should have not been included because of the huge gap in value between the rest of the deal. What we gave up for Kane was market value if you compare it to other trades or even slightly below value but we really helped Winnipeg out with the Myers Bogosian swap. Someone on the Winnipeg board said it seems like Tim Murray would have kept adding to the deal if Cheveldayoff kept asking just to get a deal done and I have to agree.
Few days later. Still don't like the deal. From a value stand point it's way off IMO. Armia or the 1st should not have been included or Buffalo should have gotten back one of Winnipeg's A goalie prospects. Or better yet the Myers Bogosian swap would have been better not included.
I read almost every post I could from Winnipeg fans on Bogosian and the majority of their fans say he is still prone to terrible decision making on the defensive side of the puck. Furthermore his offensive game is all but gone now that he's concentrating on defense first. That's not a good thing. Having to completely take away one part of your game just to become a passable defensemen 6 years into your career is a red flag to me. Myers is on a historically bad offensive team but the main strength in his offense game is still there and he's still quite good at it. Meanwhile he's been near flawless defensively this year and has gotten rid of the bad decisions that still plague Bogosian. To me there is a sizeable gap between the two.
Here's where it gets worse from a value standpoint. Bogosian makes twice as much as Myers in real dollars. For Pegula that means nothing but for Winnipeg? That should have been a huge positive in the trade that Murray should have exploited. Not only that but Buffalo retained half on Stafford so Winnipeg has room to acquire another forward at the deadline. So why was Murray adding and adding?
From a player standpoint.
Myers >> Bogosian
From a value standpoint.
Myers >>>> Bogosian
The second part of the trade that bothers me is Murray's inability to get one of Winnipeg's A goaltender prospects. They have three of them and he got nothing. It would have been the equivalent of instead of giving Winnipeg Lemieux we gave them Jordan Samuels-Thomas back.
That's pretty much how I feel about this. The 1st or Armia should have not been included because of the huge gap in value between the rest of the deal. What we gave up for Kane was market value if you compare it to other trades or even slightly below value but we really helped Winnipeg out with the Myers Bogosian swap. Someone on the Winnipeg board said it seems like Tim Murray would have kept adding to the deal if Cheveldayoff kept asking just to get a deal done and I have to agree.
If anything what HF posters try to warn other fanbases about ends up being correct 99% of the time.You're over analyzing it way too much.
I feel we overpaid by a prospect at most.
I doubt you should take Jets comments as gospel as HF posters tend to want to look at everything in the best possible light when it comes to trades.
I don't know if Myers is > Bogo .. I don't know if Bogo is > than Myers ... I do know they are close. I do know Bogo is more of a Murry type of player and is trying to build a certain type of team.
I do know that Bogo didn't get any prime PP time .. I do know that Bogo was behind some pretty decent RD's .
I don't care if Bogo scores 10 points a year.
You're overthinking the long term team control with Kane and the real dollars with Myers/Bogo.
To put it another way. We are now building a team not trying to maximize assets as part of a tear down. So its somewhat pointless to be worried about Kane 3 summers from now and the real dollar difference between Myers/Bogo. The only thing that matters is if they actually make the team better next year and take us towards our goal of becoming a contender.
If anything what HF posters try to warn other fanbases about ends up being correct 99% of the time.
I don't think so. Realistically, our prime Cup window is in approximately 3-5 years, I would guess. Having Kane for the next 3 years is nice, but if we lose him to UFA before we are a true contender, then we sort of missed the whole point with this deal. I think losing Kane to a big city team like the Rangers is a huge risk when his contract is up. It might not happen, but it's definitely one of several risky components of this deal, and one of the main reasons I don't really like it.
I don't think so. Realistically, our prime Cup window is in approximately 3-5 years, I would guess. Having Kane for the next 3 years is nice, but if we lose him to UFA before we are a true contender, then we sort of missed the whole point with this deal. I think losing Kane to a big city team like the Rangers is a huge risk when his contract is up. It might not happen, but it's definitely one of several risky components of this deal, and one of the main reasons I don't really like it.
I really don't like the Myers bogosian swap. Its still puzzling why that happened and we couldn't just offer what we did for Kane.
Urghhh
I really don't like the Myers bogosian swap. Its still puzzling why that happened and we couldn't just offer what we did for Kane.
Urghhh
I'm aware of that, I don't understand what he likes more about Bogo.It's not puzzling at all.
Murray likes what Bogo brings more than Myers. Whether it translates or not is another question .. but he has made no bones that he likes Bogosians attributes.
Ehh not sure about that. Most in the media seem to breakdown the trade like this:Because what we gave up for in prospects and picks was not worth Kane. They wanted Myers. We wanted Kane and a replacement for Myers.
If you separate Myers and Bogosian from the equation, the package we gave for Kane is a total Regier esque rip job.
I'm aware of that, I don't understand what he likes more about Bogo.
If one of your main problems with a trade is the player having the possibility to leave in 3 years, then it was a good trade. That's a concern for literally any trade ever made.