Confirmed with Link: BUF/WPG Myers+Stafford+Armia+Lemieux+Low 1st for Kane+Bogo+Kasdorf

[Moskau]

We're going to be a miserable team to play.

 

[joshjull]

We're going to be a miserable team to play.

That will certainly be a nice change from being a miserable team to watch.

 

[Ethan Edwards]

I love this trade...

Kane is legit, just needs to stay healthy. The character stuff I'm not looking much into, he needs a fresh start .Let's give it to him. On the ice the kid goes hard and is tough. I see him going 30-40 with Mcdavid or Eichel.

Bogosian is much harder to play against then Myers. Myers forces being physical and get penalized a lot for it.

I wasn't sold on Armia, he has improved I just don't think he's gonna be a top line guy.Maybe a 3rd line winger imo

Lemieux is the only one that stings a little for me, I don't see him ever being 30+ goal guy like Kane can be..I say at best he's a Brendan Gallagher just a bit bigger.

Kane is the best player in this deal.

While I'm not as stung about Lemieux as you, this was pretty much my reaction as well. I also have zero issue using assets/bargaining chips, players or picks, to acquire a guy like Kane, which is just what TM said he was going to do. I especially agree with the bolded parts. Like all trades, who knows how it will look 2 or 10 years hence, say when Joel Armia morphs into Jari Kurri sarcasm, but for me, right now, I love it for the return and for the aggressiveness it showed.

 

[dire wolf]

While I'm not as stung about Lemieux as you, this was pretty much my reaction as well. I also have zero issue using assets/bargaining chips, players or picks, to acquire a guy like Kane, which is just what TM said he was going to do. I especially agree with the bolded parts. Like all trades, who knows how it will look 2 or 10 years hence, say when Joel Armia morphs into Jari Kurri sarcasm, but for me, right now, I love it for the return and for the aggressiveness it showed.

A lot will also depend on whether Kane is here after he goes UFA in 3 years. We traded 3 assets who were under team control for a long time, for one that might be gone in 3 years. In addition to the injury, character, chemistry risks that everyone has already discussed, this is one of the biggest risks of the deal.

Also, given that Myers is going to be paid so much less in real dollars over the next several years (I think it's $6 or 8 million) and that we retained half of Stafford's salary, I would have thought that we could have traded one less asset. That money might not mean much to Pegula, but apparently it was worth a lot to Winnipeg, which is operating under an internal cap.

 

[EichHart]

That will certainly be a nice change from being a miserable team to watch.

Can't wait until next year. Even if we suck pts wise it will be so much fun to watch young future superstars play. Kane, McEichel, Reinhart, Grigs all joining the squad. Going to be awesome thing to watch. Going to be plenty of growing pains though.

 

[Jacob582]

Can't wait until next year. Even if we suck pts wise it will be so much fun to watch young future superstars play. Kane, McEichel, Reinhart, Grigs all joining the squad. Going to be awesome thing to watch. Going to be plenty of growing pains though.

I expect more changes and less growing pains for next season.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I know Murray has always been known to have balls but I always kinda was iffy about it. But this trade makes me think he's going to really go ham this summer. REALLY excited to see what he can do.

Also saw on facebook that Bogosian is already doing community events!

 

[joshjull]

A lot will also depend on whether Kane is here after he goes UFA in 3 years. We traded 3 assets who were under team control for a long time, for one that might be gone in 3 years. In addition to the injury, character, chemistry risks that everyone has already discussed, this is one of the biggest risks of the deal.

Also, given that Myers is going to be paid so much less in real dollars over the next several years (I think it's $6 or 8 million) and that we retained half of Stafford's salary, I would have thought that we could have traded one less asset. That money might not mean much to Pegula, but apparently it was worth a lot to Winnipeg, which is operating under an internal cap.

You're overthinking the long term team control with Kane and the real dollars with Myers/Bogo.


To put it another way. We are now building a team not trying to maximize assets as part of a tear down. So its somewhat pointless to be worried about Kane 3 summers from now and the real dollar difference between Myers/Bogo. The only thing that matters is if they actually make the team better next year and take us towards our goal of becoming a contender.

 

[allan5oh]

Jets fans are already wanting Armia on the first line now and talking he will be a 35 goal scorer in the NHL.

I was never that big on Armia. Didn't think he has the drive to be that successful.

We're mostly reasonable people, he may get a call up this year. Our GM said as much. We do have a hole on the 3rd line, and I could see him sticking around for the playoff run on the 4th line.

We really needed a prospect like Armia. Literally nothing in the AHL, all of our good prospects are in juniors and may not be available as they're on playoff teams themselves.

If you guys have any questions about any of these players fire away.

One massively under rated aspect of this trade is Kasdorf. We have a freaking lot of goaltenders. This quote comes from the 2014 edition of future watch:

In addition to Comrie, Connor Hellebuyck is at No. 6 and the Jets even consider RPI's Jason Kasdorf, who's been injured for most of the season, in this stable, too.

The only reason you got him is because there's too much depth in front of him. I also remember Cheveldayoff pumping his tires a bit in one of the off season GM interviews.

 

[Moskau]

Few days later. Still don't like the deal. From a value stand point it's way off IMO. Armia or the 1st should not have been included or Buffalo should have gotten back one of Winnipeg's A goalie prospects. Or better yet the Myers Bogosian swap would have been better not included.

I read almost every post I could from Winnipeg fans on Bogosian and the majority of their fans say he is still prone to terrible decision making on the defensive side of the puck. Furthermore his offensive game is all but gone now that he's concentrating on defense first. That's not a good thing. Having to completely take away one part of your game just to become a passable defensemen 6 years into your career is a red flag to me. Myers is on a historically bad offensive team but the main strength in his offense game is still there and he's still quite good at it. Meanwhile he's been near flawless defensively this year and has gotten rid of the bad decisions that still plague Bogosian. To me there is a sizeable gap between the two.

Here's where it gets worse from a value standpoint. Bogosian makes twice as much as Myers in real dollars. For Pegula that means nothing but for Winnipeg? That should have been a huge positive in the trade that Murray should have exploited. Not only that but Buffalo retained half on Stafford so Winnipeg has room to acquire another forward at the deadline. So why was Murray adding and adding?

From a player standpoint.
Myers >> Bogosian

From a value standpoint.
Myers >>>> Bogosian

The second part of the trade that bothers me is Murray's inability to get one of Winnipeg's A goaltender prospects. They have three of them and he got nothing. It would have been the equivalent of instead of giving Winnipeg Lemieux we gave them Jordan Samuels-Thomas back.

That's pretty much how I feel about this. The 1st or Armia should have not been included because of the huge gap in value between the rest of the deal. What we gave up for Kane was market value if you compare it to other trades or even slightly below value but we really helped Winnipeg out with the Myers Bogosian swap. Someone on the Winnipeg board said it seems like Tim Murray would have kept adding to the deal if Cheveldayoff kept asking just to get a deal done and I have to agree.

 

[gallagt01]

Few days later. Still don't like the deal. From a value stand point it's way off IMO. Armia or the 1st should not have been included or Buffalo should have gotten back one of Winnipeg's A goalie prospects. Or better yet the Myers Bogosian swap would have been better not included.

I read almost every post I could from Winnipeg fans on Bogosian and the majority of their fans say he is still prone to terrible decision making on the defensive side of the puck. Furthermore his offensive game is all but gone now that he's concentrating on defense first. That's not a good thing. Having to completely take away one part of your game just to become a passable defensemen 6 years into your career is a red flag to me. Myers is on a historically bad offensive team but the main strength in his offense game is still there and he's still quite good at it. Meanwhile he's been near flawless defensively this year and has gotten rid of the bad decisions that still plague Bogosian. To me there is a sizeable gap between the two.

Here's where it gets worse from a value standpoint. Bogosian makes twice as much as Myers in real dollars. For Pegula that means nothing but for Winnipeg? That should have been a huge positive in the trade that Murray should have exploited. Not only that but Buffalo retained half on Stafford so Winnipeg has room to acquire another forward at the deadline. So why was Murray adding and adding?

From a player standpoint.
Myers >> Bogosian

From a value standpoint.
Myers >>>> Bogosian

The second part of the trade that bothers me is Murray's inability to get one of Winnipeg's A goaltender prospects. They have three of them and he got nothing. It would have been the equivalent of instead of giving Winnipeg Lemieux we gave them Jordan Samuels-Thomas back.

That's pretty much how I feel about this. The 1st or Armia should have not been included because of the huge gap in value between the rest of the deal. What we gave up for Kane was market value if you compare it to other trades or even slightly below value but we really helped Winnipeg out with the Myers Bogosian swap. Someone on the Winnipeg board said it seems like Tim Murray would have kept adding to the deal if Cheveldayoff kept asking just to get a deal done and I have to agree.

As players, the gap is not nearly as large as you're implying. And value-wise, even with everything you laid out in this post, the gap is not nearly as large as you're implying.

 

[Beerz]

Few days later. Still don't like the deal. From a value stand point it's way off IMO. Armia or the 1st should not have been included or Buffalo should have gotten back one of Winnipeg's A goalie prospects. Or better yet the Myers Bogosian swap would have been better not included.

I read almost every post I could from Winnipeg fans on Bogosian and the majority of their fans say he is still prone to terrible decision making on the defensive side of the puck. Furthermore his offensive game is all but gone now that he's concentrating on defense first. That's not a good thing. Having to completely take away one part of your game just to become a passable defensemen 6 years into your career is a red flag to me. Myers is on a historically bad offensive team but the main strength in his offense game is still there and he's still quite good at it. Meanwhile he's been near flawless defensively this year and has gotten rid of the bad decisions that still plague Bogosian. To me there is a sizeable gap between the two.

Here's where it gets worse from a value standpoint. Bogosian makes twice as much as Myers in real dollars. For Pegula that means nothing but for Winnipeg? That should have been a huge positive in the trade that Murray should have exploited. Not only that but Buffalo retained half on Stafford so Winnipeg has room to acquire another forward at the deadline. So why was Murray adding and adding?

From a player standpoint.
Myers >> Bogosian

From a value standpoint.
Myers >>>> Bogosian

The second part of the trade that bothers me is Murray's inability to get one of Winnipeg's A goaltender prospects. They have three of them and he got nothing. It would have been the equivalent of instead of giving Winnipeg Lemieux we gave them Jordan Samuels-Thomas back.

That's pretty much how I feel about this. The 1st or Armia should have not been included because of the huge gap in value between the rest of the deal. What we gave up for Kane was market value if you compare it to other trades or even slightly below value but we really helped Winnipeg out with the Myers Bogosian swap. Someone on the Winnipeg board said it seems like Tim Murray would have kept adding to the deal if Cheveldayoff kept asking just to get a deal done and I have to agree.

You're over analyzing it way too much.

I feel we overpaid by a prospect at most.

I doubt you should take Jets comments as gospel as HF posters tend to want to look at everything in the best possible light when it comes to trades.

I don't know if Myers is > Bogo .. I don't know if Bogo is > than Myers ... I do know they are close. I do know Bogo is more of a Murry type of player and is trying to build a certain type of team.

I do know that Bogo didn't get any prime PP time .. I do know that Bogo was behind some pretty decent RD's .

I don't care if Bogo scores 10 points a year.

 

[Moskau]

You're over analyzing it way too much.

I feel we overpaid by a prospect at most.

I doubt you should take Jets comments as gospel as HF posters tend to want to look at everything in the best possible light when it comes to trades.

I don't know if Myers is > Bogo .. I don't know if Bogo is > than Myers ... I do know they are close. I do know Bogo is more of a Murry type of player and is trying to build a certain type of team.

I do know that Bogo didn't get any prime PP time .. I do know that Bogo was behind some pretty decent RD's .

I don't care if Bogo scores 10 points a year.

If anything what HF posters try to warn other fanbases about ends up being correct 99% of the time.

 

[dire wolf]

You're overthinking the long term team control with Kane and the real dollars with Myers/Bogo.


To put it another way. We are now building a team not trying to maximize assets as part of a tear down. So its somewhat pointless to be worried about Kane 3 summers from now and the real dollar difference between Myers/Bogo. The only thing that matters is if they actually make the team better next year and take us towards our goal of becoming a contender.

I don't think so. Realistically, our prime Cup window is in approximately 3-5 years, I would guess. Having Kane for the next 3 years is nice, but if we lose him to UFA before we are a true contender, then we sort of missed the whole point with this deal. I think losing Kane to a big city team like the Rangers is a huge risk when his contract is up. It might not happen, but it's definitely one of several risky components of this deal, and one of the main reasons I don't really like it.

 

[Beerz]

If anything what HF posters try to warn other fanbases about ends up being correct 99% of the time.

I don't know about that.

 

[Moskau]

I don't know about that.

75%

 

[ZeroPT*]

Am I the only one who thinks this trade is basically a replica of the EJ-Shattenkirk trade?

 

[Myllz]

I don't think so. Realistically, our prime Cup window is in approximately 3-5 years, I would guess. Having Kane for the next 3 years is nice, but if we lose him to UFA before we are a true contender, then we sort of missed the whole point with this deal. I think losing Kane to a big city team like the Rangers is a huge risk when his contract is up. It might not happen, but it's definitely one of several risky components of this deal, and one of the main reasons I don't really like it.

If one of your main problems with a trade is the player having the possibility to leave in 3 years, then it was a good trade. That's a concern for literally any trade ever made.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I really don't like the Myers bogosian swap. Its still puzzling why that happened and we couldn't just offer what we did for Kane.

Urghhh

 

[sabrebuild]

I don't think so. Realistically, our prime Cup window is in approximately 3-5 years, I would guess. Having Kane for the next 3 years is nice, but if we lose him to UFA before we are a true contender, then we sort of missed the whole point with this deal. I think losing Kane to a big city team like the Rangers is a huge risk when his contract is up. It might not happen, but it's definitely one of several risky components of this deal, and one of the main reasons I don't really like it.

I'll take my chances that three years from now, on a team loaded with talent and knowing that he gets to play with a high end center, Kane could find a way to let Pegula pay him big dollars to stay.

 

[Beerz]

I really don't like the Myers bogosian swap. Its still puzzling why that happened and we couldn't just offer what we did for Kane.

Urghhh

It's not puzzling at all.

Murray likes what Bogo brings more than Myers. Whether it translates or not is another question .. but he has made no bones that he likes Bogosians attributes.

 

[sabrebuild]

I really don't like the Myers bogosian swap. Its still puzzling why that happened and we couldn't just offer what we did for Kane.

Urghhh

Because what we gave up for in prospects and picks was not worth Kane. They wanted Myers. We wanted Kane and a replacement for Myers.

If you separate Myers and Bogosian from the equation, the package we gave for Kane is a total Regier esque rip job.

 

[ZeroPT*]

It's not puzzling at all.

Murray likes what Bogo brings more than Myers. Whether it translates or not is another question .. but he has made no bones that he likes Bogosians attributes.

I'm aware of that, I don't understand what he likes more about Bogo.

Because what we gave up for in prospects and picks was not worth Kane. They wanted Myers. We wanted Kane and a replacement for Myers.

If you separate Myers and Bogosian from the equation, the package we gave for Kane is a total Regier esque rip job.

Ehh not sure about that. Most in the media seem to breakdown the trade like this:

Stafford, 1st, Armia and Lemieux for Kane
Myers for Bogosian

I really wish we kept Myers..

 

[Beerz]

I'm aware of that, I don't understand what he likes more about Bogo.

in layman's terms ... "Harder to play against". See Patrick Kanes comments.

 

[dire wolf]

If one of your main problems with a trade is the player having the possibility to leave in 3 years, then it was a good trade. That's a concern for literally any trade ever made.

I have several concerns about the trade. That's one of them. In a salary cap world, you need to pick a window to compete for the Cup. If you trade away assets for a big piece and there is a big risk that the big piece won't be around during your prime window, then it's a stupid trade.

I understand that there are always risks with all sorts of players. However, I believe the flight risk with Kane is bigger than with most players. Granted, that's based on reputation and speculation, but I don't think it's crazy to be worried about that.

I've softened my position on the trade as I've gotten more used to it. I understand the rationale for it. I think we over-paid by at least 1 asset (Armia or the 1st). I can live with that if it helps us toward our goal. I just worry about the flight risk, the injuries, the locker room issues, and whether Kane can play as more of a team player going forward. I can live with some of those risks, but there are too many risks all packaged together to make me think it was a smart deal. Trading away Myers also made it tougher for me to swallow, as I think he will elevate his game even more. I respect Murray for having the balls to make a move like this, and he might hit a home run with it, but I wouldn't have swung for the fences on this pitch.

Like I keep saying, I recognize that this deal could wind up being a home run that makes Murray look like a genius. It doesn't mean it was a smart move. It's not smart to spend all of your money buying lottery tickets, even if you wind up winning. (That's an exaggerated example, but the point is that hindsight results don't necessarily justify the deal.).

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong and I will be rooting like crazy for Kane and Bogo