Confirmed Trade: [BUF/CHI] Alex Nylander for Henri Jokiharju

[hairylikebear]

I just really have an issue with that Strome comparison.

When on Earth has Nylander been as dominant as Strome has been?
& 2nd) his development post draft has been minimal& disappointing for expectations.

I'm didn't compare Nylander to Strome, nor am I suggesting that Chicago is trading for a finished product. Nylander is still young enough not to be considered a bust, and his skillset is one that translates if only he can refine it.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Jokiharju was terrible in his own end. There were several changes made when Q was let go one of which was to get Joker off the 1st pairing. The problem with that was nobody else on last years back line was good enough to cover for him. He tops out as a good 2nd pair guy and I wish him well. I just think he was falling in the system with guys like Boqvist, Michell and Beaudin being clearly ahead of him (in the Hawks eyes) add Krys, Maatta (who is still young) and DeHaan (who is under 30) and this years 2nd rounder and it was obvious they have moved on. ... Though I wish they would have gotten more but have to wonder why nobody offered more.

This is accurate. Keith made Jokiharju look better than he actually was.

 

[periferal]

Revisionist history. I doubt they beat Vancouver or San Jose in 2010 without Hossa. Then they have to deal with Havlat's albatross of a contract by 2012. He and Toews on the same line were the engine that drove the 2010 to 2015 Blackhawks. It is not a coincidence that when Hossa slowed down, so did the Blackhawks.

Like many others you underrate Hoss' overall game. Probably better on D than O, and the O wasn't bad. He had a tremendous effect on Hawks winning 3 Cups.

Hossa was a truly special and amazing player. It is certainly possible the Hawks to reach the heights they did without him.

But that's not we're discussing here.

We're discussing Stan Bowman as a GM. Even Peter Chiarelli would've tried to sign Hossa as a UFA. That's a no-brainer move like drafting McDavid #1 overall.

The real question is this...If Bowman never inherited any of Tallon's players and instead needed to do the total rebuild job that Tallon did, would the Hawks, or ANY team, have won the Cup?

If you answer "yes" to that question well that's where we strongly disagree.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Hossa was a truly special and amazing player. It is certainly possible the Hawks to reach the heights they did without him.

But that's not we're discussing here.

We're discussing Stan Bowman as a GM. Even Peter Chiarelli would've tried to sign Hossa as a UFA. That's a no-brainer move like drafting McDavid #1 overall.

The real question is this...If Bowman never inherited any of Tallon's players and instead needed to do the total rebuild job that Tallon did, would the Hawks, or ANY team, have won the Cup?

If you answer "yes" to that question well that's where we strongly disagree.

Bowman was the Assistant GM during the rebuild so it isn't lik he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Also, if Hossa was a no-brainer then why did Tallon want Havlat? I honestly think that is the real reason that Tallon got fired.

 

[periferal]

Bowman was the Assistant GM during the rebuild so it isn't lik he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Also, if Hossa was a no-brainer then why did Tallon want Havlat? I honestly think that is the real reason that Tallon got fired.

Just want to get on record...You think that Stan Bowman is a Cup caliber GM? That if he took over any team that needed a total rebuild within about 3-5 years he would make them a Cup contender?

Either you believe that or you're playing Devil's advocate just to do so.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Just want to get on record...You think that Stan Bowman is a Cup caliber GM? That if he took over any team that needed a total rebuild within about 3-5 years he would make them a Cup contender?

Either you believe that or you're playing Devil's advocate just to do so.

Honestly it's hard to say. The 2010-15 Blackhawks were built by 3 different GMs.
The responsible party for each:
Mike Smith:
Keith
Seabrook
Crawford

Tallon:
Kane
Toews
Hjalmarsson
Bolland
Sharp

Bowman:
Hossa
Saad
Niemi
And the rest of the finishing touches

The Saad-Toews-Hossa line was the best line in playoff hockey for 3 consecutive years and they don't win any cups without Toews and Hossa. Saad was the finishing touch that made the them an unstoppable force during the mid 2010s.

There were key pieces that contributed to all 3 cups that were acquired by all 3 guys as well, such as Bickell, Byfuglien, Frolik, Kruger and others.

Go look at the roster after capocalypse 2010 and it was pretty bare bones around the established core.

 

[GaryU]

Any person worth their salt believes Mitchell is better than Jokiharju.

The problem is Jokiharju played in the CHL, was a 1st round draft pick, and had some NHL games as a 19 year old. Most people have never even heard of Ian Mitchell even though he's the superior player.

Based on what? A feeling? I watched Denver U last year. Mitchell was barely noticeable in the NCAA's.. 1 SOG, no pts in 3 games. Outside of a blowout vs. Colorado (he had 2 + 2), he did nothing in the NCHC playoffs. Is he the 2nd coming of Hjalmarsson?

 

[ClydeLee]

Just want to get on record...You think that Stan Bowman is a Cup caliber GM? That if he took over any team that needed a total rebuild within about 3-5 years he would make them a Cup contender?

Either you believe that or you're playing Devil's advocate just to do so.

There is no such situation or person who is some magical gm like that who exists. Do you think any GM is this person they would make a cup contender in 3-5 years regardless of situation? Who could that be

 

[ijuka]

Any person worth their salt believes Mitchell is better than Jokiharju.

The problem is Jokiharju played in the CHL, was a 1st round draft pick, and had some NHL games as a 19 year old. Most people have never even heard of Ian Mitchell even though he's the superior player.

Didn't we hear this for Vesey too? I'll wait and see what he can do in NHL first, you should as well.

 

[valet]

Sure, what's at stake, looking stupid on the internet?

Yeahhhhhhhh, duh

 

[featherhawk]

Just want to get on record...You think that Stan Bowman is a Cup caliber GM? That if he took over any team that needed a total rebuild within about 3-5 years he would make them a Cup contender?

Either you believe that or you're playing Devil's advocate just to do so.

name some GM's that could take over any team that needed a total rebuild within about 3-5 years and he would make them a cup contender....

 

[Slimmy]

Strange to me to trade Nylander now when he is finally in for a breakout year. All those years of patience to trade him now does not sit well with me.

 

[Sam Spade]

William karlsson had a career high of 25p in blue jackets, changed team and suddenly broke out.

So in four years, when Nylander is 25, the Hawks will be golden.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Jokiharju was terrible in his own end. There were several changes made when Q was let go one of which was to get Joker off the 1st pairing. The problem with that was nobody else on last years back line was good enough to cover for him. He tops out as a good 2nd pair guy and I wish him well. I just think he was falling in the system with guys like Boqvist, Michell and Beaudin being clearly ahead of him (in the Hawks eyes) add Krys, Maatta (who is still young) and DeHaan (who is under 30) and this years 2nd rounder and it was obvious they have moved on. ... Though I wish they would have gotten more but have to wonder why nobody offered more.

All stats point out that he was good in his own end

 

[Dr Quincy]

No. People are different, and athletes are a subset. It is no different than that guy who was taller than everyone else in 8th grade and ended up being below average in height by HS graduation.

But we aren't talking about puberty. We are talking about a guy who has proven he is an NHL player at 19. Physical advantages of 1 13 year old over another are ridiculously irrelevant to comparing a guy actually playing in the league.

I get it. You want to justify the trade your team made. But it's undeniable that Jokiharju is younger and more established as an NHL player. Whether he becomes a top pair, middle pair, or bottom pair...he WILL be an NHL player and in fact IS one.

Alex Nylander is older and is NOT an NHL player yet and may never become one.The questions about his game as an 18 year old remain as a 21 year old.

Things may change, who knows. But right now you traded a young, cost-controlled NHL D for a guy who you hope changes a lot of his game and someday becomes a player.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

All stats point out that he was good in his own end

....and yet he was traded for a reclamation project. Not as good as the FHM (Finnish Hive Mind) believe and not much of a market either.

 

[Chainshot]

Strange to me to trade Nylander now when he is finally in for a breakout year. All those years of patience to trade him now does not sit well with me.

Nylander did not break out this year. He had a good training camp, and did not handle the assignment to Rochester with the sort of verve one would help. He was then outplayed in a scoring role by an unheralded UDFA and also by a former overage seventh round draft pick. His season was more frustrating than last year because he was mostly healthy.

 

[Dr Quincy]

....and yet he was traded for a reclamation project. Not as good as the FHM (Finnish Hive Mind) believe and not much of a market either.

By this rationale Jacob Trouba isn't as good as Rangers fans think because he was traded for Neal Pionk.

Silly way to judge a player's ability.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

By this rationale Jacob Trouba isn't as good as Rangers fans think because he was traded for Neal Pionk.

Silly way to judge a player's ability.

Situations aren't even remotely similar.

 

[Slimmy]

Nylander did not break out this year. He had a good training camp, and did not handle the assignment to Rochester with the sort of verve one would help. He was then outplayed and a scoring roll by and unheralded UDFA and also by a former overage seventh round draft pick. His season was more frustrating than last year because he was mostly healthy.

You misunderstood. Based on how Nylander looked at the end of the season, I believe next season will be his breakout year. Albeit a small sample, I thought he looked great. Am I the only one?

 

[Dr Quincy]

Situations aren't even remotely similar.

The rationale is, and you can probably tell by my avatar I'm a fan of Trouba.

If it's valid to use a player's trade return to judge how good he is, then it's valid for other players. If it's not valid to use in some cases, then it's not really valid to use in others.

 

[Chainshot]

You misunderstood. Based on how Nylander looked at the end of the season, I believe next season will be his breakout year. Albeit a small sample, I thought he looked great. Am I the only one?

Ah, qualifying it in that fashion I would agree. He did look like an NHL player in his late season recall.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The rationale is, and you can probably tell by my avatar I'm a fan of Trouba.

If it's valid to use a player's trade return to judge how good he is, then it's valid for other players. If it's not valid to use in some cases, then it's not really valid to use in others.

Teemu Selänne was also traded for busts.

 

[JT Kreider]

Even Peter Chiarelli would've tried to sign Hossa as a UFA. That's a no-brainer move like drafting McDavid #1 overall.

Hossa and his agent chose the Blackhawks based on their "Cup predictor" algorithm or whatever it was. All Bowman did was negotiate the numbers.

 

[tsujimoto74]

You misunderstood. Based on how Nylander looked at the end of the season, I believe next season will be his breakout year. Albeit a small sample, I thought he looked great. Am I the only one?

Great might be pushing it, but he did look good in his recall. Super soft, but he was making smart decisions with and without the puck.