Proposal: Bruins trade proposals, rumors, transaction suggestions, etc.

[DominicT]

I went back into the thread and realized you clarified the post. So, I understand now.

As to your questions. please realize that I'm just a long time fan, no expert.

1] No.

2] I would, yes, given the trouble he's had there, and though I don't follow EDM's D, I'm assuming they'd kill for a player like Dougie. Again, I understand that the two clubs obviously come to the same straight up swap with vastly different needs & perspectives.

Keep those insider bits -- and common sense analysis -- coming.

You have to also consider, when it comes to Russians, the Kovalchuk fiasco. Hamilton could be here for 15 years. Yak could be gone next season.

Don't think that it doesn't cross a GM's mind when talking about a player that hails from Russia.

Out of curiosity, how often do Russians get traded in the NHL? Serious question, I guess I could look it up but that's what Brad is here for. But the KHL situation does play a part in it

 

[Dr Quincy]

You have to also consider, when it comes to Russians, the Kovalchuk fiasco. Hamilton could be here for 15 years. Yak could be gone next season.

Don't think that it doesn't cross a GM's mind when talking about a player that hails from Russia.

Out of curiosity, how often do Russians get traded in the NHL? Serious question, I guess I could look it up but that's what Brad is here for. But the KHL situation does play a part in it

Anisimov was part of the Nash deal. Technically Nikitin was traded to Edmonton. Bobrovsky. Varlamov. Tyutin. Grabovski.

According to NHL.com there are 21 Russians in the NHL this season. I may be missing a couple others, but that would be about 29% of them that have been traded.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I would love to get Erik Gudbranson from Florida, Our top 4 would look pretty good!! Wonder if they would do Spooner and Mcquaid for Gudbranson

Chara-Hamilton
Seidenberg-Gudbranson
Krug-Miller
Bart

I've watched a bunch of Panthers games because I'm a Barkov fan. Gudbranson isn't very good and right now is really their 6th dman. He's getting less minutes the last game or 2 than Dylan Olsen. Gudbranson probably played his best game in their last game, but still...

He's a physical dman with very poor decision making and zero puck skills. I'm probably higher on his brother than him now.

 

[Coach Parker]

I would love to get Erik Gudbranson from Florida, Our top 4 would look pretty good!! Wonder if they would do Spooner and Mcquaid for Gudbranson

Chara-Hamilton
Seidenberg-Gudbranson
Krug-Miller
Bart

Not a chance. Zero. Would you take Spooner and McQuaid for Hamilton? Well Gudbranson was taken after Seguin.

Plus, I have heard zero news that he is even available. People are finally seeing Hedman develop as indicator of how long it takes for elite defensemen to progress. Gudbranson is of that line.

Now, Gormley was taken 9 picks later and was after Gudbranson, McIlrath and Fowler. Pretty good company.

Plus, you know, he is actually available and worth discussing. I think he would be perfect with Seidenberg. absolutely perfect fit and a future top pairing for Gormley and Hamilton when Chara retires is on par with Pieternagelo and Shattenkirk.

 

[BNHL]

Not a chance. Zero. Would you take Spooner and McQuaid for Hamilton? Well Gudbranson was taken after Seguin.

Plus, I have heard zero news that he is even available. People are finally seeing Hedman develop as indicator of how long it takes for elite defensemen to progress. Gudbranson is of that line.

Now, Gormley was taken 9 picks later and was after Gudbranson, McIlrath and Fowler. Pretty good company.

Plus, you know, he is actually available and worth discussing. I think he would be perfect with Seidenberg. absolutely perfect fit and a future top pairing for Gormley and Hamilton when Chara retires is on par with Pieternagelo and Shattenkirk.

I've always believed 4 years for a forward and 6 for a defenseman.

 

[Shaun]

gudbranson skates like he's in quick sand

 

[Montecristo]

Not a chance. Zero. Would you take Spooner and McQuaid for Hamilton? Well Gudbranson was taken after Seguin.

Plus, I have heard zero news that he is even available. People are finally seeing Hedman develop as indicator of how long it takes for elite defensemen to progress. Gudbranson is of that line.

Now, Gormley was taken 9 picks later and was after Gudbranson, McIlrath and Fowler. Pretty good company.

Plus, you know, he is actually available and worth discussing. I think he would be perfect with Seidenberg. absolutely perfect fit and a future top pairing for Gormley and Hamilton when Chara retires is on par with Pieternagelo and Shattenkirk.

Gudbranson is Luke schenn. Not victor hedman

 

[Coach Parker]

I've always believed 4 years for a forward and 6 for a defenseman.

Remember how bad Hedman looked two years ago?

There are certain exceptions, like generational defenseman like Doughty. Karlsson and Subban also came along quickly but when you look at the next tier of Hamilton, Pieterangelo, Shattenkirk, Johnson, Johnson, Gudbranson, Fowler and company, it will be in the next two years that we see some of them become top defenseman in the NHL. most believe Pieterangleo is the first of the group to reach that.

I believe organizational depth and coaching has the largest impact on these elite defensmen prospects more than any other position in hockey. Elite forward prospects are going to score and learn how to adapt to systems. Elite goalies are going to stop the puck and gain confidence against opponents the more shots they face and games they play.

But a defenseman can loose all his confidence, gap control, one on one abilities and offensive skill simply by the way he is coached, the system he is brought up in and the organization that develops him. Hamilton has been brought up very isolated and controlled minutes. This year that will expand. Pieterangelo was furious when St.Louis sent him back down but now it has paid off. Hedman learned the hard way for years to play against men.

To me, if you can get a Gormley or Larsson (two that should be in the above groupings) at a good price you do so and reset him in the Bruins organization and rebuild his confidence.

 

[GordonHowe]

You have to also consider, when it comes to Russians, the Kovalchuk fiasco. Hamilton could be here for 15 years. Yak could be gone next season.

Don't think that it doesn't cross a GM's mind when talking about a player that hails from Russia.

Out of curiosity, how often do Russians get traded in the NHL? Serious question, I guess I could look it up but that's what Brad is here for. But the KHL situation does play a part in it

That makes sense. "Lazy Russians" come with plenty of baggage, justified or not. Semin got traded. Sobatka (sp) bolted to the KHL. Perhaps there's a reason the Bruins don't have any Russian players on their big boy roster.

 

[member 96824]

Pietrangelo is easily in the top tier and Norris voters know that (they picked him 5)

 

[Coach Parker]

Gudbranson is Luke schenn. Not victor hedman

So you are saying he is a bust? I don't understand how you don't see him as similar to Hedmen's development and slow progression. Hedman didn't catch fire until the second half of last season. Give Gudbranson a hot with a team like Tampa and not Florida and you'd see how good he can be.

Unless you are calling him a bust which would be silly at this point.

 

[BNHL]

Remember how bad Hedman looked two years ago?

There are certain exceptions, like generational defenseman like Doughty. Karlsson and Subban also came along quickly but when you look at the next tier of Hamilton, Pieterangelo, Shattenkirk, Johnson, Johnson, Gudbranson, Fowler and company, it will be in the next two years that we see some of them become top defenseman in the NHL. most believe Pieterangleo is the first of the group to reach that.

I believe organizational depth and coaching has the largest impact on these elite defensmen prospects more than any other position in hockey. Elite forward prospects are going to score and learn how to adapt to systems. Elite goalies are going to stop the puck and gain confidence against opponents the more shots they face and games they play.

But a defenseman can loose all his confidence, gap control, one on one abilities and offensive skill simply by the way he is coached, the system he is brought up in and the organization that develops him. Hamilton has been brought up very isolated and controlled minutes. This year that will expand. Pieterangelo was furious when St.Louis sent him back down but now it has paid off. Hedman learned the hard way for years to play against men.

To me, if you can get a Gormley or Larsson (two that should be in the above groupings) at a good price you do so and reset him in the Bruins organization and rebuild his confidence.

I've heard some experts claim that defenseman meet the peak triangle of talent,experience and strength at about 28. It's an uphill climb and scary to think Doughty should improve.

 

[GordonHowe]

Remember how bad Hedman looked two years ago?

There are certain exceptions, like generational defenseman like Doughty. Karlsson and Subban also came along quickly but when you look at the next tier of Hamilton, Pieterangelo, Shattenkirk, Johnson, Johnson, Gudbranson, Fowler and company, it will be in the next two years that we see some of them become top defenseman in the NHL. most believe Pieterangleo is the first of the group to reach that.

I believe organizational depth and coaching has the largest impact on these elite defensmen prospects more than any other position in hockey. Elite forward prospects are going to score and learn how to adapt to systems. Elite goalies are going to stop the puck and gain confidence against opponents the more shots they face and games they play.

But a defenseman can loose all his confidence, gap control, one on one abilities and offensive skill simply by the way he is coached, the system he is brought up in and the organization that develops him. Hamilton has been brought up very isolated and controlled minutes. This year that will expand. Pieterangelo was furious when St.Louis sent him back down but now it has paid off. Hedman learned the hard way for years to play against men.

To me, if you can get a Gormley or Larsson (two that should be in the above groupings) at a good price you do so and reset him in the Bruins organization and rebuild his confidence.

Good post.

 

[Coach Parker]

Pietrangelo is easily in the top tier and Norris voters know that (they picked him 5)

Exactly. Now he is coming into form on an elite team. Hamilton is also having a measure of success on an elite team.

My point is that to jump from that grouping I listed above and join the Subban, Doughty, Karlsson grouping a player has to be on a team that isolates hi minutes and gains his confidence as he learns the game at the NHL level, not play continuous negative minutes for a half empty arena on a perennial loser where the franchise has bigger problems than developing that elite defensive prospect.

 

[member 96824]

I've heard some experts claim that defenseman meet the peak triangle of talent,experience and strength at about 28. It's an uphill climb and scary to think Doughty should improve.

Doughty is already there. He just doesn't care about the regular season.

Not all development is straight up. Just cause Jeff Skinner is a 30 goal guy at 19 doesn't mean he'll be a 50 goal guy at 25

 

[Dr Quincy]

So you are saying he is a bust? I don't understand how you don't see him as similar to Hedmen's development and slow progression. Hedman didn't catch fire until the second half of last season. Give Gudbranson a hot with a team like Tampa and not Florida and you'd see how good he can be.

Unless you are calling him a bust which would be silly at this point.

Hedman is a really bad comp for Gudbranson. Hedman had noticeable tools. The question was would he get strong enough and grow into his size and would he use it. Gudbranson is big and physical but never displayed much offense.

I forget where I read it, but a study has been done about Dman in the CHL who are defensive dman that don't put up a lot of points in jr. Generally, they don't become very much. Gudbranson's 2 goals in his draft year was way too low to spend a top 3 pick on.

If you take a guy like Diaby or Geertsen (similar style) in the 3rd round or later... fine but never take a top 15 pick to use on a stay at home dman who put up no pts in jr.

 

[Ogrim]

How about Kulikov from the Panthers?

Seems like a sort of odd move but I'm still high on this kid and believe there has been rumors about him being shopped(even though he's still very young).

What I'm getting at is perhaps this fits the bill of a 'change of scenery'-type deal where they might be willing to retain salary if they get a prospects of ours that they think would be a good resource or draft picks.

 

[Montecristo]

So you are saying he is a bust? I don't understand how you don't see him as similar to Hedmen's development and slow progression. Hedman didn't catch fire until the second half of last season. Give Gudbranson a hot with a team like Tampa and not Florida and you'd see how good he can be.

Unless you are calling him a bust which would be silly at this point.

Why is it silly to say a player is a bust? There are players drafted every year that turn out to be busts. Pastrnak could be a bust who knows. I'm just saying I think that gudbranson won't live up to his draft slot. I wouldn't call Luke schenn a bust, he's an NHL dman. I think gudbranson is an NHL dman but he won't ever be what Hedman is. If you think he will be, fine. We'll see who falls closer to reality one day

 

[BigBadBruin8]

Anisimov was part of the Nash deal. Technically Nikitin was traded to Edmonton. Bobrovsky. Varlamov. Tyutin. Grabovski.

According to NHL.com there are 21 Russians in the NHL this season. I may be missing a couple others, but that would be about 29% of them that have been traded.

I'm surprised but I'm not surprised that there are only 21 Russians in the NHL out of a minimum of 600 players. More and more teams are very wary of Russians these days.

 

[Dr Quincy]

How about Kulikov from the Panthers?

Seems like a sort of odd move but I'm still high on this kid and believe there has been rumors about him being shopped(even though he's still very young).

What I'm getting at is perhaps this fits the bill of a 'change of scenery'-type deal where they might be willing to retain salary if they get a prospects of ours that they think would be a good resource or draft picks.

I LOVED Kulikov going into that draft and thought he was a steal at 14. But again, I've watched a lot of Panthers games the last 2 years... he'd be absolutely hated here. HATED. Think Wideman-level bonehead plays with a good chunk of indifference to getting better. At 4m a year (and FLA isn't going to retain salary) that would be a massive waste of resources.

 

[Ogrim]

I LOVED Kulikov going into that draft and thought he was a steal at 14. But again, I've watched a lot of Panthers games the last 2 years... he'd be absolutely hated here. HATED. Think Wideman-level bonehead plays with a good chunk of indifference to getting better. At 4m a year (and FLA isn't going to retain salary) that would be a massive waste of resources.

Didn't know he'd fallen off to that extent.. Waste of some great talent
Ofcourse he's not interesting at his current cap hit. Probably not at all if there are character-issues or whatever.
Thank you.

 

[BNHL]

Exactly. Now he is coming into form on an elite team. Hamilton is also having a measure of success on an elite team.

My point is that to jump from that grouping I listed above and join the Subban, Doughty, Karlsson grouping a player has to be on a team that isolates hi minutes and gains his confidence as he learns the game at the NHL level, not play continuous negative minutes for a half empty arena on a perennial loser where the franchise has bigger problems than developing that elite defensive prospect.

And reportedly Subban endured multiple benchings last year while Karlsson has a lot to learn defensively. This list of top tier dmen all have between 3 and 6 years of NHL games experience,I'd expect them all to improve further.

 

[Coach Parker]

I've heard some experts claim that defenseman meet the peak triangle of talent,experience and strength at about 28. It's an uphill climb and scary to think Doughty should improve.

Doughty is only going to get better and his name always comes up in the conversation as to the best player in the world to build a franchise around.

As far as defenseman, you can see all the scouts out watching them with particular interest. I was lucky enough to scout some games this year to start the season in the WHL and loved Hicketts play. A week later he was signed by the Redwings and is their version of Krug IMO.

I am also beginning to see the elite defensive prospects that I coached and coached against getting closer to the NHL radar. Some are about to get noticed, while others wil start to have their names posted here.

For any WHL fans, keep your eye on 97 born Lucas Johansen, yes Ryan Johansen's little brother. He is with Kelowna (of course and great D prospect is) and hopefully see some big minutes this year. That franchise pumps out elite defenseman...

From this one franchise:

Tyson Barrie
Alex Edler
Josh Georges
Scott Hannan
Duncan Keith
Tyler Myers
Luke Schenn
Sheldon Souray
Shea Weber

...and that is just the defensmen!

Elite defensive prospects that come from OR go to a strong organization are the biggest swing factors in the NHL as far as bust or boom. No other position can gain or lose more than an elite defensive prospect simply by which franchise they are with.

If Gormley or Larsson ever became available I'd hope the Bruins would be all over that.

 

[Coach Parker]

Why is it silly to say a player is a bust? There are players drafted every year that turn out to be busts. Pastrnak could be a bust who knows. I'm just saying I think that gudbranson won't live up to his draft slot. I wouldn't call Luke schenn a bust, he's an NHL dman. I think gudbranson is an NHL dman but he won't ever be what Hedman is. If you think he will be, fine. We'll see who falls closer to reality one day

Again, never called him Hedman but rather that he will take as much time as Hedman did to develop.

 

[EverettMike]

Hamilton for Yakupov....

Bruins think for a second before saying, "No way," and then hanging up.

Edmonton screams, "Absolutely," and files the paperwork with the league immediately.

Worth noting.

Again, a quick trip to the actual trade thread where it isn't just Bruins fans and into the Yakupov thread has unbiased fans and Oilers fans giving a different perspective.

I'm not knocking Hamiltons value. I'm honestly questioning the arguments you would use to prop Hamitlon up while tearing down Yakupov given their age, potential, skill and teams they are on.

I'm sitting at a game between periods and asked half a dozen hockey people more knowledgeable than me:

Would you trade Hamilton straight up for Yakupov. Unanimous no and it's not even close. Now, in all fairness, they all would trade Yakupov straight up for Hamilton without question.

This made me smile.