Prospect Info: Bruins Prospects XI - Stay on subject!

[UncleRico]

Studnicka
Vaak
Lauko
Vladar
Hall
Beecher

SLEEPERS

Frederick
Hughes
Olson
Steen
Chen
Zboril

BUSTS

Senyshyn
Ritchie 1
Ritchie 2

how is Frederic who was a first round pick possibly considered a sleeper?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

how is Frederic who was a first round pick possibly considered a sleeper?

Negative comment about him right off the bat from a member of the Bruins scouting staff (Who I believe's opinion wasn't taken much for this draft seeing he left right after). So that gives the player this need to already have to outdo those comments. He goes to Providence/Boston and doesn't have great stints. Bust assumptions begin to get thrown around. Player has a good season in Providence (points weren't always there, but the play was). Gets people cautiously optimistic he can be more than what he's projected to be.

I can see why people have him as a sleeper. And he was a late first round pick. It's not like he was a sure-fire first round guy. Hell, there are people on this board who still think he would have been there at the 2nd round spot where Boston chose Lindgren.

 

[Blowfish]

Negative comment about him right off the bat from a member of the Bruins scouting staff (Who I believe's opinion wasn't taken much for this draft seeing he left right after). So that gives the player this need to already have to outdo those comments. He goes to Providence/Boston and doesn't have great stints. Bust assumptions begin to get thrown around. Player has a good season in Providence (points weren't always there, but the play was). Gets people cautiously optimistic he can be more than what he's projected to be.

I can see why people have him as a sleeper. And he was a late first round pick. It's not like he was a sure-fire first round guy. Hell, there are people on this board who still think he would have been there at the 2nd round spot where Boston chose Lindgren.

Thank you BFS...nailed it.

 

[UncleRico]

Negative comment about him right off the bat from a member of the Bruins scouting staff (Who I believe's opinion wasn't taken much for this draft seeing he left right after). So that gives the player this need to already have to outdo those comments. He goes to Providence/Boston and doesn't have great stints. Bust assumptions begin to get thrown around. Player has a good season in Providence (points weren't always there, but the play was). Gets people cautiously optimistic he can be more than what he's projected to be.

I can see why people have him as a sleeper. And he was a late first round pick. It's not like he was a sure-fire first round guy. Hell, there are people on this board who still think he would have been there at the 2nd round spot where Boston chose Lindgren.

Imagine you are talking about Keith Greztky who projected him to be a 3rd line center. The draft was overall a very weak draft and teams knew it heading into it. By the looks of it, seems to be a pretty accurate scouting report of Frederic. He’s 22 years old averaging slightly above .50 ppg in the AHL after 127 games played so far. Seems to be a 3rd/4th line center type production when he hits the NHL.

I guess he could be a sleeper candidate to be even better? I don’t see him being better than studnicka or Coyle, still too early to tell on Beecher.

 

[Dr Hook]

Imagine you are talking about Keith Greztky who projected him to be a 3rd line center. The draft was overall a very weak draft and teams knew it heading into it. By the looks of it, seems to be a pretty accurate scouting report of Frederic. He’s 22 years old averaging slightly above .50 ppg in the AHL after 127 games played so far. Seems to be a 3rd/4th line center type production when he hits the NHL.

I guess he could be a sleeper candidate to be even better? I don’t see him being better than studnicka or Coyle, still too early to tell on Beecher.

I'm fine with him being a 3rd line guy- teams needs 3c's too, and better to draft and develop one than overpay for a UFA or waste an asset trading for one.

 

[BruinDust]

Move on from Beecher? Guy is 6:03, is a burner and
is physical. Has enormous physical tools you can't
teach, ever. I watched him in person at the WJSS and
on TV the WJC.

Was great at the WJSS and not nearly as bad as some people claim at The WJC. At the WJC, he was one of the best US F for zone exits and entries and it was noticeable,
like coast to coast noticeable. He also was pretty decent
on FO and was used on the PK.

To me I see a guy WORST CASE who will play 3LW who
gets in on a FC and will punish dmen. Exactly what
people want come PO time.

MOST LIKELY CASE, he becomes a player such as
Killorn or Kreider, solid 2L winger who scores dirty goals.

BEST CASE he becomes an elite 3C with the ability
to slot 2C when necessary.

I focused on him every game at the WJC and he was brutal. Like you said physical tools are evident, but man the hockey sense I just don't see it. If I had a nickle for every time he carried the puck into traffic and either turned it over or created nothing I could retire. If his hockey sense/IQ catch up to his physical tools his ceiling could be very high. I thought it was a bit of project pick to begin with, which isn't terrible picking at the end of Round 1.

Could turn out great, or could end up like a lot of other Bruins picks (Frederic, Senyshyn, Colbourne, Zboril, Cross, Stuart, Subban, Toivonen etc.) where they (management and Bruins scouts) tend to get swayed by tremendous physical/athletic gifts but ultimately don't have the hockey brain to get the most out of it.

 

[BruinDust]

Who knows who is a bust when the Bruins keep bringing in players to fill out their bottom six like Wagner, Lindholm, Nordy (who I like), and others. Young guys need a look soon!

Well for a decade now they've practically refused to break in any young players on the 4th line, instead force-feeding them into roles on Lines 2 and 3, to the detriment of both the team and player.

 

[Dr Hook]

Well for a decade now they've practically refused to break in any young players on the 4th line, instead force-feeding them into roles on Lines 2 and 3, to the detriment of both the team and player.

And even worse is when they do force them into those positions, don't give them enough of a shot to learn on the job. They perform about like you expect most rookies/green players will: mistakes, bad decisions, missed assignments, and that gets them a seat in the pressbox or a bus ride back to Providence.

 

[UncleRico]

I'm fine with him being a 3rd line guy- teams needs 3c's too, and better to draft and develop one than overpay for a UFA or waste an asset trading for one.

I have no problem with him being a 3rd line center either. The original post I was replying to was someone saying they think Frederic is a sleeper and I was wondering how a late first round pick could be a sleeper.

 

[Dr Hook]

I have no problem with him being a 3rd line center either. The original post I was replying to was someone saying they think Frederic is a sleeper and I was wondering how a late first round pick could be a sleeper.

Got you. I have to agree he has been so devalued on this board because where he was taken I can see how some might feel he is a sleeper. A solid 3C in his draft position, in a weak draft year is a good pick and I wouldn't consider him a sleeper either if he makes it there. I guess thinking he will turn into a top 6 C might make him someone's sleeper.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I focused on him every game at the WJC and he was brutal. Like you said physical tools are evident, but man the hockey sense I just don't see it. If I had a nickle for every time he carried the puck into traffic and either turned it over or created nothing I could retire. If his hockey sense/IQ catch up to his physical tools his ceiling could be very high. I thought it was a bit of project pick to begin with, which isn't terrible picking at the end of Round 1.

Could turn out great, or could end up like a lot of other Bruins picks (Frederic, Senyshyn, Colbourne, Zboril, Cross, Stuart, Subban, Toivonen etc.) where they (management and Bruins scouts) tend to get swayed by tremendous physical/athletic gifts but ultimately don't have the hockey brain to get the most out of it.

You were absolutely one of the people I was talking about. I remember your criticism of him. To me
you focused on the negative only. Yeah there were
a couple of times he tried to force plays and he turned it
over and the bad hit against Finland. One of those TO, he chased the guy down on the BC and took the puck away. He had numerous successful zone exits and entrances due to his ability to carry the puck with speed and reach.
That's important and often times draws penalties.
He went coast-to-coast against Canada on his off wing,and generated a quality scoring chance and coast-to-coast against Finland in the 3rd period to generate another quality
scoring chance. He was really good in the WJSS which I was in attendance for and obviously not as good in the WJC. However go back and watch him in the Canada and
Finland and there was more to his game then your giving him credit for. Often the
underage kids don't play as well as you want, but he wasn't "brutal", just was
not good.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I've only seen him a half dozen times on TV, but with his size, skating and reach Johnny Beecher reminds me a 'little" of the Little M.

Now the Little M twice was a hundred point man, I doubt Beecher will ever even come close to that but sometimes it takes some growing pains for a bigger kid to develop. After being selected 2nd overall in 63 by the Wings, he was gifted to the Habs along with the greatest hockey name ever Bart Crashley for Garry Monahan and Doug Piper, Peter's brother. Another swindle by Sam Pollock. At the very least, Beecher is maybe Mike Rupp, Play center and wing, kill penalties and wear down the other teams D. And isn't that of value as we have seen in the last couple playoffs? And Rupp has a Cup winning goal, didn't score a ton but made that one count.

I love Beecher, I can't ever see him in that class.
Mahovolich was 6:05 in an era were only three or four
players in the league were as tall or taller. Beecher
is Coyle's height so he will never have that advantage.
Doesn't have Coyle's passing or puckhandling ability never mind PM. Is faster and more aggressive than Coyle though.

Another ex Hab I would compare him to in skating
ability and physique is Bob Gainey. If Beecher gives
you 90% of Gainey, that's jackpot time.

 

[Number6]

I focused on him every game at the WJC and he was brutal. Like you said physical tools are evident, but man the hockey sense I just don't see it. If I had a nickle for every time he carried the puck into traffic and either turned it over or created nothing I could retire. If his hockey sense/IQ catch up to his physical tools his ceiling could be very high. I thought it was a bit of project pick to begin with, which isn't terrible picking at the end of Round 1.

Could turn out great, or could end up like a lot of other Bruins picks (Frederic, Senyshyn, Colbourne, Zboril, Cross, Stuart, Subban, Toivonen etc.) where they (management and Bruins scouts) tend to get swayed by tremendous physical/athletic gifts but ultimately don't have the hockey brain to get the most out of it.

Fully agree. Jared Knight could also be added to that list. Hey, he sure looked great in his "homemade" gym workout video. Let's draft him early second round!

 

[BruinDust]

You were absolutely one of the people I was talking about. I remember your criticism of him. To me
you focused on the negative only. Yeah there were
a couple of times he tried to force plays and he turned it
over and the bad hit against Finland. One of those TO, he chased the guy down on the BC and took the puck away. He had numerous successful zone exits and entrances due to his ability to carry the puck with speed and reach.
That's important and often times draws penalties.
He went coast-to-coast against Canada on his off wing,and generated a quality scoring chance and coast-to-coast against Finland in the 3rd period to generate another quality
scoring chance. He was really good in the WJSS which I was in attendance for and obviously not as good in the WJC. However go back and watch him in the Canada and
Finland and there was more to his game then your giving him credit for. Often the
underage kids don't play as well as you want, but he wasn't "brutal", just was
not good.

I would agree with this. And your right about him carrying the puck up ice before crossing the blue-line, he did make some nice rushes.

 

[BruinDust]

Fully agree. Jared Knight could also be added to that list. Hey, he sure looked great in his "homemade" gym workout video. Let's draft him early second round!

It is, by far, my biggest beef with the drafting philosophy of the Bruins. And it's been going on a long time so methinks Scott Bradley is highly influential and leans towards these types of players. And I think it's a backwards strategy.....give me the player who can think the game at an elite level, and I'll work on his skating, his shot, his balance, strength, etc. Those things are coachable, but you can't teach a player elite hockey IQ, either he has it or he doesn't.

 

[Number6]

It is, by far, my biggest beef with the drafting philosophy of the Bruins. And it's been going on a long time so methinks Scott Bradley is highly influential and leans towards these types of players. And I think it's a backwards strategy.....give me the player who can think the game at an elite level, and I'll work on his skating, his shot, his balance, strength, etc. Those things are coachable, but you can't teach a player elite hockey IQ, either he has it or he doesn't.

I know he wasn't draft by the Bruins, but John Moore also fits that exact description (good athlete, very low hockey IQ). Bruins coaching staff still has three more years to make him learn how to play hockey...

 

[mjhfb]

It is, by far, my biggest beef with the drafting philosophy of the Bruins. And it's been going on a long time so methinks Scott Bradley is highly influential and leans towards these types of players. And I think it's a backwards strategy.....give me the player who can think the game at an elite level, and I'll work on his skating, his shot, his balance, strength, etc. Those things are coachable, but you can't teach a player elite hockey IQ, either he has it or he doesn't.

That's very true, but at the teen scouting level it requires elite hockey IQ to recognize (sometimes subtle) elite hockey IQ.

 

[HumBucker]

It is, by far, my biggest beef with the drafting philosophy of the Bruins. And it's been going on a long time so methinks Scott Bradley is highly influential and leans towards these types of players. And I think it's a backwards strategy.....give me the player who can think the game at an elite level, and I'll work on his skating, his shot, his balance, strength, etc. Those things are coachable, but you can't teach a player elite hockey IQ, either he has it or he doesn't.

Hard to argue with the importance of high hockey IQ, but at the same time, I don't think it's as simple as drafting only players with high hockey IQ. Some will have it, some won't. But I think it's also true that there are players whose skill level trumps the need for elite hockey IQ.

Does Pasta have elite hockey IQ? I don't think of him as such, at least not compared to players like Bergeron, Crosby, or even Marchand, etc. But he knows enough to get open, and he knows how to put the puck in the net. And he has the skills, the skating, and the hand-eye to make plays at speed. That's valuable.

If it's your turn at the draft and the choice comes down to a player with elite skills but maybe moderate hockey IQ, and a player with high hockey IQ but maybe moderate skills, you're saying that's an easy choice? I don't think so.

 

[BruinDust]

Hard to argue with the importance of high hockey IQ, but at the same time, I don't think it's as simple as drafting only players with high hockey IQ. Some will have it, some won't. But I think it's also true that there are players whose skill level trumps the need for elite hockey IQ.

Does Pasta have elite hockey IQ? I don't think of him as such, at least not compared to players like Bergeron, Crosby, or even Marchand, etc. But he knows enough to get open, and he knows how to put the puck in the net. And he has the skills, the skating, and the hand-eye to make plays at speed. That's valuable.

If it's your turn at the draft and the choice comes down to a player with elite skills but maybe moderate hockey IQ, and a player with high hockey IQ but maybe moderate skills, you're saying that's an easy choice? I don't think so.

Pasta's Hockey IQ is off the charts, it was evident as soon as he arrived in Boston as an 18-year old. So was Bergeron's. You could tell both guys just had "it".

I'm not saying they should only draft players who think the game at a very high level, but that the Bruins seem to prioritize sometimes natural athletic ability far above the players hockey IQ and it hasn't generated much in the way of results in terms of developing quality players.

 

[rocketdan9]

It is, by far, my biggest beef with the drafting philosophy of the Bruins. And it's been going on a long time so methinks Scott Bradley is highly influential and leans towards these types of players. And I think it's a backwards strategy.....give me the player who can think the game at an elite level, and I'll work on his skating, his shot, his balance, strength, etc. Those things are coachable, but you can't teach a player elite hockey IQ, either he has it or he doesn't.

I disagree or semi disagree

There is no guarantee a player can develop proper mass or skating

You already forgot Zach Hamill and 2008 to 2013 draft failures? (on a whole)

Hamill, Cehlarik, Donato, Griffin, Spooner etc

higher IQ guys who needed physical/skating development. And Bruins are really behind the curve in terms of lack of help from these 5 years.

Seems like the Bruins method right now is go for the safe bottom 6 forward. Trade value usually remains constant. From there if you have a team full of mediocre IQ players but have the physical attributes/can skate... trade for established higher iq/skilled players to balance out lineup

 

[BruinDust]

I disagree or semi disagree

There is no guarantee a player can develop proper mass or skating

You already forgot Zach Hamill and 2008 to 2013 draft failures? (on a whole)

Hamill, Cehlarik, Donato, Griffin, Spooner etc

higher IQ guys who needed physical/skating development. And Bruins are really behind the curve in terms of lack of help from these 5 years.

Seems like the Bruins method right now is go for the safe bottom 6 forward. Trade value usually remains constant. From there if you have a team full of lower IQ but have the physical attributes/can skate... trade for an established higher iq/skilled player

No there isn't, but generally if a player puts in the work with the right skills coach, they can improve in that area. Will it improve to the point where it's NHL caliber? Not always.

Hamill and Griffith are two examples where both smart players but just weren't fast enough for the show. Granted we don't know what they did to work on their skating either, and both were somewhat undersized.

Overall I want a balance. Even though they've drafted lots of natural athletes, they haven't drafted and developed any power forwards, which is another area they are lacking. But they've leaned too much towards the raw project types in the past 15 years or so and it hasn't paid off.

 

[rocketdan9]

No there isn't, but generally if a player puts in the work with the right skills coach, they can improve in that area. Will it improve to the point where it's NHL caliber? Not always.

Hamill and Griffith are two examples where both smart players but just weren't fast enough for the show. Granted we don't know what they did to work on their skating either, and both were somewhat undersized.

Overall I want a balance. Even though they've drafted lots of natural athletes, they haven't drafted and developed any power forwards, which is another area they are lacking. But they've leaned too much towards the raw project types in the past 15 years or so and it hasn't paid off.

i mean don't forget Bruins luckily snatched Filipe away from Canes. He is suppose to be goal scoring PF. Lauko is a skilled winger Bruins got lucky to find in the 3rd round. Bruins had a high IQ guy in JFK but he decided to walk away

I wonder if you are fixated on Frederic, Beecher, Senyshyn, Zboril, Curtis Hall types who require that extra time

In the playoffs especially against teams like TBL, Stars... we have seen how difficult it is to battle in front of the net. Even skilled guys like Barzal can't connect a pass up nor get a shot through. Doesn't hurt to have guys like Frederic who can throw his weight around, battle/jossling in front of the net.... wearing down these Ds. But unlike Nick Ritchie can skate

Its like TBL D core didn't break a sweat in 2018 and 2020 series

 

[wintersej]

I’m convinced we need to draft more Seth Griffiths.

 

[Baddkarma]

I’m convinced we need to draft more Seth Griffiths.

 

[Montecristo]

My biggest issue is they always draft guys that are either massive projects or low upside guys or both. Frederic 1. Needed to find offense. And 2. Learn how to skate. And if he could do that then maybe he could have been a 3rd liner. All these question marks that lead to marginal talent to begin with. Senyshyn just needed to learn to pass play defense handle the puck and grow a brain and he’d be danny paille. Waste of time.