Brandon Saad...Rock Bottom?

AmericanDream

Thank you Elon!
Oct 24, 2005
37,090
26,438
Chicago Manitoba
2010: 16th PP, 4th PK
2013: 19th PP, 3rd PK
2015: 20th PP, 10th PK
well, there you go, you can win Cups without elite special teams. I always thought our pk was better because we had the Kruger/Frolik/Bolland/Toews to throw out there in waves...plus Hammer on the pk was a sponge..we need to have our pk at least get to 15th to make a run for the playoffs, cannot sustain such a shitty pk and hope to outscore everyone on a nightly basis.
 

piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
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There's no doubt Daley and Kempny both won Cups as 2nd pairing DMen for Pitt and Wash. So it can happen. That said, both Daley and Kempny were paired with Seabrook at times in Chicago. It can't all be Q's fault. Some of it lies with the players.

Once is a coincidence. Twice is a trend. What went wrong with the Seabrook / Daley and Seabrook / Kempny pairing? Again, it can't all be Q's doing.
 

AmericanDream

Thank you Elon!
Oct 24, 2005
37,090
26,438
Chicago Manitoba
There's no doubt Daley and Kempny both won Cups as 2nd pairing DMen for Pitt and Wash. So it can happen. That said, both Daley and Kempny were paired with Seabrook at times in Chicago. It can't all be Q's fault. Some of it lies with the players.

Once is a coincidence. Twice is a trend. What went wrong with the Seabrook / Daley and Seabrook / Kempny pairing? Again, it can't all be Q's doing.
I think Seabs and Kempny had pretty decent numbers together if I recall...didn't someone do a corsi on that pairing and it came back looking pretty good...like above average good??
 

piteus

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Dec 20, 2015
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NYC
My premise was he's "closer" to 2015 form than what he has been the past two years. Which makes him a middle pairing D.
"Closer" means Seabrook's current contract is legitimate. Seabrook was very good DMen towards the end of the season and the playoffs in 2015. Closer to 2015 makes Seabrook one of the best #3 DMen in the NHL.
 

hawksfan50

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
14,101
1,982
OMG! One of our Mannequins scored a goal today I'm practice! Seasbs took a shot ...tipped by the Mannequin 20 feet in front of Forster and it went in!

Let me see...Saad cost $6.0 million per ...Mannequin probably about $130 one time cost..Yet the Mannequin can beat a goalie and Saad cannot? Unbelievable ...Stam needs to sign the Mannequin before another team jumps in to beat us to the punch .
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,099
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Chicago 'Burbs
"Closer" means Seabrook's current contract is legitimate. Seabrook was very good DMen towards the end of the season and the playoffs in 2015. Closer to 2015 makes Seabrook one of the best #3 DMen in the NHL.

Didn't you say earlier he was just an adequate middle pairing guy in 2015? Now he's one of the best #3 in the NHL at that time? I'm confused.

Closer to 2015 means he's not the dumpster fire bottom-pairing caliber player he was the past two seasons.

In 2015 he was still a top pairing guy in my eyes, btw.(towards the bottom of the league as top pairing guys go). And he jumped off a cliff the past two seasons. And this season looks closer to 2015 performance than his performance the past two years. Which is why I'm saying he's easily a middle pairing guy...
 

piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
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NYC
I don't think there was an agree or not agree there to be honest...

You seem confused what type of Seabs we have this year - if he turns into the Seabs from last year, yeah this ship probably sinks faster than expected...but if he keeps playing like his is, that is a solid #3 dman which is probably over paid by only $1.5 just on a longer than liked term.

In 2014/15 he was still in my eyes a legit top pairing defensemen....I do not see that from him now and we are using him better than before by splitting him and Keith up.
If Seabrook is a legitmate #3 DMen ... with Toews revived and Crow healthy (Ward backing him up) ... and Forsling / Murphy coming back ...

That makes the Hawks legitimate Cup contenders. That's back to 2016 when we barely lost to the Blues.
 

piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
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NYC
Didn't you say earlier he was just an adequate middle pairing guy in 2015? Now he's one of the best #3 in the NHL at that time? I'm confused.

Closer to 2015 means he's not the dumpster fire bottom-pairing caliber player he was the past two seasons.

In 2015 he was still a top pairing guy in my eyes, btw.(towards the bottom of the league as top pairing guys go). And he jumped off a cliff the past two seasons. And this season looks closer to 2015 performance than his performance the past two years. Which is why I'm saying he's easily a middle pairing guy...
No ... I said Seabrook was a very good middle pairing DMen in 2015. That implies the #3 DMen.
 
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Blackhawks

Registered User
Jul 25, 2007
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I'm actually not sensitive in the least. But that is how you post, for the most part. Most the time when you discuss something, you imply that people don't know what they're talking about. That you're right, and everyone else is wrong. You brag if you're right about something, and call out people who were wrong. It's constant. Do I really have to go back into your post history to search for posts like this? Come on man. It's one of the biggest reasons you catch **** on here. Because you think you're right, and everyone else is wrong, pretty much all the time. You're constantly laughing at what people say/suggest. You're constantly throwing well-masked slights/criticisms out... I think you'll find most people agree with me on that. It's why I've always had issues with you on here, and why most others do too, if I had to guess. You may not have done it in this thread, at this current time, but it's a regular occurrence much of the time, which is why you catch flak like you did earlier in this thread.


Ok so no quotes, cool as I expected.
 

piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
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NYC
Okay ... you've convinced me. Seabrook is a #3 DMen. That means with a healthy Crow (backed by a capable Ward), revived Toews, and the return of Forsling/Murphy, the Hawks should be one of the better teams in the NHL.

You raised my expectations this year. I'll hold you to your predictions.
 

Blackhawks

Registered User
Jul 25, 2007
5,679
1,137
every post you make is literally trashing the organization or "other" posters who didn't see things like you did or do...the problem is you are bashing a GM for his moves than make one of the stupidest offers possible by saying we should have given Panarin away with Seabrook as if that was going to bring in anything better than we got, or that Seabs contract being gone is going to save us...how on Earth can you not see the hypocrisy in this??


“Thrashing the organization”? Dude it’s a hockey forum, I discuss the mistakes or successes of the team and what needs to change to improve the team. For instance I am actually really happy with Toews this year, I always loved Toews game till his decline and now I love it again, I have always expressed my happiness with a guy like Kane and Keith. At the end of the day this is not personal, this is ALL hockey related , you are just too emotionally attached that’s the problem, you think if I criticize Stan then I am thrashing the organization because it’s not a popular opinion but if everyone criticizes Q then it’s ok because it’s a popular opinion. Anyway this is so childish, I wanna stick to hockey talk but you guys get all sensitive lol.
 
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BobbyJet

watch the game, everything else is noise
Oct 27, 2010
29,865
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Dundas, Ontario. Can
Their PK was always top of the league during their cup runs.

The difference in the PK these days boils down to two player's absence, and it certainly has nothing to do with Kruger, or has it ever, despite the myth. I'm referring to Frolik and Hossa, both of whom had a knack for knowing when to be aggressive in an otherwise passive system.
 

piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
12,122
3,367
NYC
Sorry for misremembering then.
No problem. It was a good debate done with logic. I appreciate both you and American Dream's time. You kind of convinced me.

However, that means my expecatations of the Hawks season have been sincerely raised (minus unpredictable injuries). With higher expectations, I'm going to be far more harsh if the Hawks disappoint.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,099
21,427
Chicago 'Burbs
“Thrashing the organization”? Dude it’s a hockey forum, I discuss the mistakes or successes of the team and what needs to change to improve the team. For instance I am actually really happy with Toews this year, I always loved Toews game till his decline and now I love it again, I have always expressed my happiness with a guy like Kane and Keith. At the end of the day this is not personal, this is ALL hockey related , you are just too emotionally attached that’s the problem, you think if I criticize Stan then I am thrashing the organization because it’s not a popular opinion but if everyone criticizes Q then it’s ok because it’s a popular opinion. Anyway this is so childish, I wanna stick to hockey talk but you guys get all sensitive lol.

It has nothing to do with being "sensitive". Or your opinion on things. Plenty of people have differing opinions on here and have healthy debates about those opinions. Look at me and piteus the past hour for example. It's how you go about your posting that people have an issue with... the condescending, "I'm always right, you're always stupid" attitude you come off displaying much of the time. The "LOL you seriously think that?" types of responses. It's not being sensitive. It's called respect... and you show little to anyone, and get the same back in return, as a result. At least in my perspective. And I'm not alone in that thinking...
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
31,621
10,971
London, Ont.
The difference in the PK these days boils down to two player's absence, and it certainly has nothing to do with Kruger, or has it ever, despite the myth. I'm referring to Frolik and Hossa, both of whom had a knack for knowing when to be aggressive in an otherwise passive system.
Of course it has nothing to do with Kruger, who was the main C on those PKs. Your bias knows no end, Bobby.
 

AmericanDream

Thank you Elon!
Oct 24, 2005
37,090
26,438
Chicago Manitoba
“Thrashing the organization”? Dude it’s a hockey forum, I discuss the mistakes or successes of the team and what needs to change to improve the team. For instance I am actually really happy with Toews this year, I always loved Toews game till his decline and now I love it again, I have always expressed my happiness with a guy like Kane and Keith. At the end of the day this is not personal, this is ALL hockey related , you are just too emotionally attached that’s the problem, you think if I criticize Stan then I am thrashing the organization because it’s not a popular opinion but if everyone criticizes Q then it’s ok because it’s a popular opinion. Anyway this is so childish, I wanna stick to hockey talk but you guys get all sensitive lol.
the fact that you think you are here to "DISCUSS" the mistakes or this team's failures in an intellectual context is the most laughable thing there is...just scroll past your own post history, horrible post after horrible post usually having LMAO in them...

I enjoyed this one from you like a week ago:
"Please define “serviceable”, this team will be lucky if they are not one of the 5 bottom teams in the league. Yay we got Kahun which has not proven anything until now yet we are praising Bowman for it? Even if he is a 50 point player(extremely unlikely) and this teams misses the playoffs he is still a horrible GM."

I posted how people are forgetting we also got Kahun in the off season so if you want to bitch about Manning, Ward and Kunitz, you need to acknowledge Kahun as a solid acquisition...but yeah, this is your reply, like 95% of your other posts....LMAO!!!
 
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ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
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the fact that you think you are here to "DISCUSS" the mistakes or this team's failures in an intellectual context is the most laughable thing there is...just scroll past your own post history, horrible post after horrible post usually having LMAO in them...

I enjoyed this one from you like a week ago:
"Please define “serviceable”, this team will be lucky if they are not one of the 5 bottom teams in the league. Yay we got Kahun which has not proven anything until now yet we are praising Bowman for it? Even if he is a 50 point player(extremely unlikely) and this teams misses the playoffs he is still a horrible GM."

I posted how people are forgetting we also got Kahun in the off season so if you want to ***** about Manning, Ward and Kunitz, you need to acknowledge Kahun as a solid acquisition...but yeah, this is your reply, like 95% of your other posts....LMAO!!!

I was going to say "Basically just don't be such a dick in your posts." but figured it would get modded out. I mean, that's the just of it, though. Have some respect for people and their opinions, and they'll have the same for yours...
 
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Pez68

Registered User
Mar 18, 2010
18,519
25,509
Chicago, IL
The difference in the PK these days boils down to two player's absence, and it certainly has nothing to do with Kruger, or has it ever, despite the myth. I'm referring to Frolik and Hossa, both of whom had a knack for knowing when to be aggressive in an otherwise passive system.

You realize that Hossa was pretty much always on the third PK unit, right? Guess who led forwards in SH TOI/GP when the Hawks had the 3rd ranked PK in 2013? It wasn't Frolik. It wasn't Hossa. It wasn't Toews...
 

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