Brandon Saad...Rock Bottom?

[piteus]

More like the league got faster, and he got older, more than anything, IMO. He's 33 years old, and has been in the league for 13 years. He has played over 1000 regular season games, and 123 playoff games. And played some hard minutes in most of those. He has a lot of miles on those tires.

I imagine it was a lot of hard work to lean up in the offseason, to try and get faster, and extend his time in the league. Guy deserves a ton of credit. He could have just sat back and collected his paycheck.

Posters only HATE Seabrook's contract. No one's ever questioned his desire and what he's meant for this franchise. Wear and tear catches up with everyone. Everyone agreed Seabrook deserved the "A" on the sweater. No one ever said he should have been stripped of it last year ... even when he struggled. This year just proves his professionalism.

I'll continue to rip on Seabrook's contract. However, it has nothing to do with his place in the franchise and the dramatic turnaround. Seabrook literally put his health on the line to win.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Posters only HATE Seabrook's contract. No one's ever questioned his desire and what he's meant for this franchise. Wear and tear catches up with everyone. Everyone agreed Seabrook deserved the "A" on the sweater. No one ever said he should have been stripped of it last year ... even when he struggled. This year just proves his professionalism.

I'll continue to rip on Seabrook's contract. However, it has nothing to do with his place in the franchise and the dramatic turnaround. Seabrook literally put his health on the line to win.

Plenty of people on here think he's garbage and want nothing to do with him as a player, also...

 

[Blackhawks]

The board has no need for someone who thinks every other person who posts is dumb, and doesn't know anything about hockey. It's literally in every one of his posts. Everyone else is dumb, and he's the only one who knows anything about the sport. There is no conversation with someone who has that "opinion".

I never said anyone was dumb, please go back to this interaction from the beginning and see who started laughing and ridiculing who. Maybe you are just sensitive and see things as a personal attack when it’s just hockey talk? Please quote me and show us all where I said anyone was dumb or how I implied it.

 

[BobbyJet]

I'm not sure why people still try to have a discussion with him. I mean, he's always the smartest guy in the room, yano? Who can argue with that?

He may be critical of a lot that has gone on in Chicago (and a fair bit of it is warranted), hence gets a lot of dissing; but (if you see him in that light, I don't) he wouldn't be the only one on here with that smartest guy in the room attitude. There is an easy solution though, the ignore poster option.

I see a douible standard on this board. If you are supporting the team you are allowed to personal attack other posters who disagree with you ... but that certainly doesn't apply if your critical of anything Blackhawks.

 

[piteus]

Plenty of people on here think he's garbage and want nothing to do with him as a player, also...

Those were after bad games. I always give posters the benefit of the doubt after an emotional game. These boards are a place to vent.

After fans cool down ... it was more about Seabrook being in the third pairing and his contract. By playing Seabrook in the top 4, the Hawks don't do him any favors. It exposes his lack of speed.

 

[BobbyJet]

Those were after bad games. I always give posters the benefit of the doubt after an emotional game. These boards are a place to vent.

After fans cool down ... it was more about Seabrook being in the third pairing and his contract. By playing Seabrook in the top 4, the Hawks don't do him any favors. It exposes his lack of speed.

Stan is the guy who deserves the criticism for the inflated Seabrook contract and especially for the term that was gifted him. Seabs has had his struggles like any player but several folks around here would not tolerate those struggles. They and had him written off mainly because of how much money he was making and let's not kid ourselves, it continues. Seabs looks like his old self lately but is a few bad games away from the critics returning.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I never said anyone was dumb, please go back to this interaction from the beginning and see who started laughing and ridiculing who. Maybe you are just sensitive and see things as a personal attack when it’s just hockey talk? Please quote and show us all where I said anyone was dumb or how I implied it.

I'm actually not sensitive in the least. But that is how you post, for the most part. Most the time when you discuss something, you imply that people don't know what they're talking about. That you're right, and everyone else is wrong. You brag if you're right about something, and call out people who were wrong. It's constant. Do I really have to go back into your post history to search for posts like this? Come on man. It's one of the biggest reasons you catch shit on here. Because you think you're right, and everyone else is wrong, pretty much all the time. You're constantly laughing at what people say/suggest. You're constantly throwing well-masked slights/criticisms out... I think you'll find most people agree with me on that. It's why I've always had issues with you on here, and why most others do too, if I had to guess. You may not have done it in this thread, at this current time, but it's a regular occurrence much of the time, which is why you catch flak like you did earlier in this thread.

 

[piteus]

Stan is the guy who deserves the criticism for the inflated Seabrook contract and especially for the term that was gifted him. Seabs has had his struggles like any player but several folks around here would not tolerate those struggles. They and had him written off mainly because of how much money he was making and let's not kid ourselves, it continues. Seabs looks like his old self lately but is a few bad games away from the critics returning.

You know I've always been critical of Stan and his contract negotiating skills. Lord knows I've been critical of his currency speculation and NTC clauses.

That said, I'll continue to rip on Seabrook's contract. That's just part of the territory for any high paid athlete. More money = higher expectations. That's life. However, I don't blame Seabrook for taking more money. All of us would have done it.

As for Seabrook's play ... he is what he is. He'd make a good third pairing. If you exclude his contract, it's perfectly fine. However, Seabrook does not belong in the top 4 for any legitimate contender.

 

[LDF]

Plenty of people on here think he's garbage and want nothing to do with him as a player, also...

i personally don't think that is true. i believe posters here can keep it separate. poster can see a deterioration of skills and let it not transcend into other parts of his personal life.

 

[LDF]

the biggest problem and i am keeping it on the Seabs situation, is Seabs in now in the past his prime, twilight of his career who refuses to retire. yeah it didn't help having a moron of a GM who reinforce it by giving him a team paralyzing contract..... a contract that can't be move and is handicapping the team to fully address the area that is needed.

 

[ChiHawks10]

i personally don't think that is true. i believe posters here can keep it separate. poster can see a deterioration of skills and let it not transcend into other parts of his personal life.

I'm not talking about his personal life... I'm talking that they feel he's a garbage player now, bad contract or not. As evidenced above by @piteus

His thought is that he's only a 3rd pairing D, at best, now. When that is simply not true, at least to me. He's easily a middle pairing D with how he has played so far this season. Saying he belongs nowhere near the middle pairing for a contender is just wrong. And nothing will change my mind about that.

 

[LDF]

I'm not talking about his personal life... I'm talking that they feel he's a garbage player now, bad contract or not. As evidenced above by @piteus

His thought is that he's only a 3rd pairing D, at best, now. When that is simply not true, at least to me. He's easily a middle pairing D with how he has played so far this season. Saying he belongs nowhere near the middle pairing for a contender is just wrong. And nothing will change my mind about that.

nor did i imply you were.

ref to your 3rd pairing comment, well i was stating he was 3rd pairing last season at best. but i still haven't seen much in a limited time of games played so far.

but that is my take.

 

[ChiHawks10]

i personally don't think that is true. i believe posters here can keep it separate. poster can see a deterioration of skills and let it not transcend into other parts of his personal life.

nor did i imply you were.

ref to your 3rd pairing comment, well i was stating he was 3rd pairing last season at best. but i still haven't seen much in a limited time of games played so far.

but that is my take.

My post has nothing to do with his personal life, but you brought up his personal life as if I were talking about it.

When I said this:

Plenty of people on here think he's garbage and want nothing to do with him as a player, also...

I was talking about plenty of people thinking he's garbage "as a player".

 

[piteus]

I'm not talking about his personal life... I'm talking that they feel he's a garbage player now, bad contract or not. As evidenced above by @piteus

His thought is that he's only a 3rd pairing D, at best, now. When that is simply not true, at least to me. He's easily a middle pairing D with how he has played so far this season. Saying he belongs nowhere near the middle pairing for a contender is just wrong. And nothing will change my mind about that.

IMO, our defense have been horrid this season. I don't think that implies Seabrook, Gus, Manning, and Rutta are "easily a middle pairing."

Our scoring is fine. Our goaltending hasn't been half bad. Our defense has not been good. Most everyone says the defense will prevent the Hawks from being a legit contender this year. It might prevent the Hawks next year too. So if you believe Keith and Joker are an adequate top 4 pairing ... where does that put Seabrook, Gus, Rutta, and Manning?

 

[ChiHawks10]

IMO, our defense have been horrid this season. I don't think that implies Seabrook, Gus, Manning, and Rutta are "easily a middle pairing."

Our scoring is fine. Our goaltending hasn't been half bad. Our defense has not been fine. Most everyone says our defense will prevent the Hawks from being a legit contender next year. It might prevent the Hawks next year too. So if you believe Keith and Joker are an adequate top 4 pairing ... where does that put Seabrook, Gus, Rutta, and Manning?

Seabrook is not the same caliber as Gus, Rutta, or Manning... not sure how anyone could think so.

The defense hasn't been fine, but that's not on Seabs. He has played fine, and played how a middle-pairing D should. It's on the other guys who are playing higher than what they are in the pairings - Gus, Rutta, and Manning. And it's on the forwards, who have played horrendous defensively since the start of the season.

I mean... Seabs has Manning as his partner. The guy shouldn't even be on an NHL team with the way he has looked. You can't discount Seabs play because he has garbage for a partner. The best D in the league would be dragged down by a guy like Manning next to them...

 

[piteus]

Seabrook is not the same caliber as Gus, Rutta, or Manning... not sure how anyone could think so.

The defense hasn't been fine, but that's not on Seabs. He has played fine, and played how a middle-pairing D should. It's on the other guys who are playing higher than what they are in the pairings - Gus, Rutta, and Manning. And it's on the forwards, who have played horrendous defensively since the start of the season.

Seabrook was a very good middle pairing DMen on a legitimate contender in 2015. His game has fallen off since 2015. He does not have a prime Keith or Hjalmarrson to lean on. I don't see how Seabrook is easily a middle pairing DMen ... at least not on a legitimate contender. If that was the case, contending teams would have interest in Seabrook. Everyone laughs when we put Seabrook in a possible trade package. It's not only because of his contract. If Seabrook was a #3 DMen, people wouldn't mock his $6mn salary.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Seabrook was a very good middle pairing DMen on a legitimate contender in 2015. His game has fallen off since 2015. He does not have a prime Keith or Hjalmarrson to lean on. I don't see how Seabrook is easily a middle pairing DMen ... at least not on a legitimate contender. If that was the case, contending teams would have interest in Seabrook. Everyone laughs when we put Seabrook in a possible trade package. It's not only because of his contract. If Seabrook was a #3 DMen, people wouldn't mock his $6mn salary.

He's a solid #4 still. He's still a middle pairing D on all but the most loaded teams defensively, and I don't think there is any arguing against it.

His game fell off, but this year, through 5 games, he looks a lot more like 2014 & 2015 Seabs, than the Seabs of the past couple seasons...

Have you just not watched a single game this season? Because you're talking about him like you haven't.

 

[piteus]

He's a solid #4 still. He's still a middle pairing D.

His game fell off, and this year, through 5 games, he looks a lot more like 2014 & 2015 Seabs, than the Seabs of the past couple seasons...

Have you just not watched a single game this season? Because you're talking about him like you haven't.

Solid #4? Our defense wouldn't look so bad then. If Seabrook looked a lot more like 2014 and 2015 ... we wouldn't be giving up the amount of scoring opportunities even with Gus on his flank. Seabrook is playing far better than last year ... however, he is not in 2014 / 2015 form.

We're all hoping Forsling and Murphy make a difference when they get back. Murphy and Forsling! It's not just to replace Rutta and Manning. We're hoping they can elevate the play of the bottom 2 pairings.

Yes ... I've watched a lot of games this season. The fact that Rutta and Manning still get substantial 3rd period ice time should tell you something.

Seabrook doesn't even receive OT time anymore. It's Keith, Joker, and Gus.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Solid #4? Our defense wouldn't look so bad then. If Seabrook looked a lot more like 2014 and 2015 ... we wouldn't be giving up the amount of scoring opportunities even with Gus on his flank. Seabrook is playing far better than last year ... however, he is not in 2014 / 2015 form.

We're all hoping Forsling and Murphy make a difference when they get back. Murphy and Forsling! It's not just to replace Rutta and Manning. We're hoping they can elevate the play of the bottom 2 pairings.

Yes ... I've watched a lot of games this season. The fact that Rutta and Manning still get substantial 3rd period ice time should tell you something.

Yes, it would. Because half of them aren't even NHL defenders on a playoff team. Yes, we would. Because Gus is basically a purely offensive-minded D, and Seabs is a hybrid(at this stage). Throw in the fact that Manning isn't an NHL D at all, and Rutta pulled a groin in preseason and doesn't look 100% healthy still... and you have a recipe for disaster. Tack on top of that, the fact that the forwards have arguably been nothing more than shit in our own zone... and well, you get the defense that we've seen.

Murphy and Forsling are both top 4 D(as far as potential goes). They will make a huge difference, and push the guys who aren't even NHL caliber D out of the lineup.

You sure don't seem like you've watched a lot of games this season. The fact that Rutta and Manning still get substantial 3rd period ice time tells me Q is a f***ing moron, and nothing more. You thinking that has anything to do with Seabs is ridiculous.

Agree to disagree, because I think your assessment of Seabs is on par with BWC's assessment of Trubisky.

Wanna know how bad Manning drags him down? Seabs has a career average CF% of 52.6. It was 51.8% last year and he didn't look good at all. His career FF% is 52.6. Last year it was 51%, and again, he looked terrible.

This year CF% is 45.6 and FF% is 44.6. And Seabs looks far better than last year. Yet his numbers are far worse. Manning is hot garbage. And drags him way down. As evidenced by the stats.

His defensive zone starts are at 55% on the year, in relation to his 46% career average. He's being asked to carry a pylon next to him, and do it in the defensive zone more often than not. And he's not up to it, anymore. That does not make him terrible, or less than the middle-pairing D that he has shown he can be still.

 

[piteus]

Yes, it would. Because half of them aren't even NHL defenders on a playoff team. Yes, we would. Because Gus is basically a pure offensive-minded D. Manning isn't an NHL D at all. Rutta pulled a groin in preseason and doesn't look 100% healthy still...

Murphy and Forsling are both top 4 D(as far as potential goes). They will make a huge difference, and push the guys who aren't even NHL caliber D out of the lineup.

You sure don't seem like you've watched a lot of games this season. The fact that Rutta and Manning still get substantial 3rd period ice time tells me Q is a ****ing moron... and nothing more.

Agree to disagree, because I think your assessment of Seabs is on par with BWC's assessment of Trubisky.

I dont think I'm the only one saying this about Seabrook. You might be the minority on this.

* My premise is that Seabrook is a 3rd pairing on a legitimate contender.
* You say he is easily a middle pairing DMen on a legitimate contender.

Q might be moron, but if Seabrook is easily a middle DMen, he is still averaging the same ice time as Rutta. Gus plays more. Only Manning plays 2 minutes less.

I think you are being a bit too biased for Seabrook. He's much better this year ... but I don't think he's easily a middle pairing DMen for any legitimate contender.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I dont think I'm the only one saying this about Seabrook. You might be the minority on this.

* My premise is that Seabrook is a 3rd pairing on a legitimate contender.
* You say he is easily a middle pairing DMen on a legitimate contender.

Q might be moron, but if Seabrook is easily a middle DMen, he is still averaging the same ice time as Rutta. Gus plays more. Only Manning plays 2 minutes less.

I think you are being a bit too biased for Seabrook. He's much better this year ... but I don't think he's easily a middle pairing DMen for any legitimate contender.

He's averaging the same ice time as Rutta, and less than Gus, and barely more than Manning... because Q is a moron.

I'm not being biased. He is being dragged down by what can be argued is the worst dman of this era, on par with Rundblad, in Manning. And still looks solid back there, despite the god-awful stats he has.

And no, I'm not in the minority on this. I'd say most on here would think Seabs is still a middle-pairing D. Especially with how he has looked this season so far. Those who don't, are simply blinded by their hatred of his contract, which is about 2m more per season than it should be.

Here...

31 teams in the NHL, right? That means teams have 62 top-pairing D(that play top pairing, not necessarily that belong there).

And they then have 62 middle-pairing D, by that same logic, right?

Can you honestly name me 124 D in the NHL that are better than Seabs?

 

[piteus]

Yes, it would. Because half of them aren't even NHL defenders on a playoff team. Yes, we would. Because Gus is basically a purely offensive-minded D, and Seabs is a hybrid(at this stage). Throw in the fact that Manning isn't an NHL D at all, and Rutta pulled a groin in preseason and doesn't look 100% healthy still... and you have a recipe for disaster. Tack on top of that, the fact that the forwards have arguably been nothing more than **** in our own zone... and well, you get the defense that we've seen.

Murphy and Forsling are both top 4 D(as far as potential goes). They will make a huge difference, and push the guys who aren't even NHL caliber D out of the lineup.

You sure don't seem like you've watched a lot of games this season. The fact that Rutta and Manning still get substantial 3rd period ice time tells me Q is a ****ing moron, and nothing more. You thinking that has anything to do with Seabs is ridiculous.

Agree to disagree, because I think your assessment of Seabs is on par with BWC's assessment of Trubisky.

Wanna know how bad Manning drags him down? Seabs has a career average CF% of 52.6. It was 51.8% last year and he didn't look good at all. His career FF% is 52.6. Last year it was 51%, and again, he looked terrible.

This year CF% is 45.6 and FF% is 44.6. And Seabs looks far better than last year. Yet his numbers are far worse. Manning is hot garbage. And drags him way down. As evidenced by the stats.

His defensive zone starts are at 55% on the year, in relation to his 46% career average. He's being asked to carry a pylon next to him, and do it in the defensive zone more often than not. And he's not up to it, anymore. That does not make him terrible, or less than the middle-pairing D that he has shown he can be still.

I'm pretty sure it's been Gus with Seabrook the past 3 games. Manning got benched in the third period against @Blues. Manning's been running with Rutta the last 3 games.

 

[Pez68]

I dont think I'm the only one saying this about Seabrook. You might be the minority on this.

* My premise is that Seabrook is a 3rd pairing on a legitimate contender.
* You say he is easily a middle pairing DMen on a legitimate contender.

Q might be moron, but if Seabrook is easily a middle DMen, he is still averaging the same ice time as Rutta. Gus plays more. Only Manning plays 2 minutes less.

I think you are being a bit too biased for Seabrook. He's much better this year ... but I don't think he's easily a middle pairing DMen for any legitimate contender.

Teams have won cups with much, much worse second pairing defenders....

 

[ChiHawks10]

I'm pretty sure it's been Gus with Seabrook the past 3 games. Manning got benched in the third period against @Blues. Manning's been running with Rutta the last 3 games.

Changes nothing. Neither are NHL caliber D. Gus can be solid enough offensively to be a 3rd pair guy, but he's still trash in comparison to most NHL quality defenders. He's about as close to being a pure offensive D as you'll find.

Name me 124 D in the NHL better than Seabs. I'll wait.

 

[piteus]

Teams have won cups with much, much worse second pairing defenders....

I'll take your guys word for it. However, I don't see how current Seabrook and Gus on the second pairing makes the Hawks into legitimate contenders ... even with a healthy Crow.

Think of some of the second lines of the top teams in the NHL.