Brandon Saad...Rock Bottom?

[Absolut]

So you were celebrating when Saad was traded for Anisimov and Dano too? There's no guarantee the Hawks could have signed Panarin without making promises on April 2015.

I agree ... the straight up trade for Panarin for Saad and Forsberg looks to be disaster, unless Panarin leaves CBus for nothing next year. However, are you factoring in how we got Panarin in the first place and Anisimov? Like I said, there are a lot of moving parts to the 3 year Panarin / Saad saga.

3 things to know about Artemi Panarin

I am confused by your insistence that Panarin leaving Columbus has any impact on the outcome of the trade from Chicago's perspective. It would only change the outcome from Columbus perspective. Although I am sure they'd rather have cap space than Saad's contract for the next two years. Losing Panarin to free agency will be devastating for Columbus because they got a taste of having a superstar on their team. Not because they "lost" Saad.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Jokingly threw out Saad for Pasta on mainboard thread ‘Boston looking to add a center’ and its taken on a life of its own...

 

[BK]

I'll take your guys word for it. However, I don't see how current Seabrook and Gus on the second pairing makes the Hawks into legitimate contenders ... even with a healthy Crow.

Think of some of the second lines of the top teams in the NHL.

Remember Murphy and Forsling change that quite a bit.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Remember Murphy and Forsling change that quite a bit.

Sort of crazy two years ago Forsling was called “special” by Q, had an amazing camp and made the team (remember the slap pass against detroit...) and now he’s kind of on the back burner as far as Hawks D prospects go...Interested to see how he performs when he gets back. Murphy coming off back surgery is a huge question mark

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Sort of crazy two years ago Forsling was called “special” by Q, had an amazing camp and made the team (remember the slap pass against detroit...) and now he’s kind of on the back burner as far as Hawks D prospects go...Interested to see how he performs when he gets back. Murphy coming off back surgery is a huge question mark

Forsling, at one point, was our best 2nd defenseman for a stretch. He looked like he belonged on the top pairing. But he's not consistent. He struggles with the speed of the game.

That being said, he has potential. He just needs to reestablish that he belongs. Maybe it's a confidence thing. Maybe it's an experience thing. Either way, he's had a taste of the pros and has shown something in that time...he's gotta prove that he can do it game in-game out.

 

[Blackhawks]

I am confused by your insistence that Panarin leaving Columbus has any impact on the outcome of the trade from Chicago's perspective. It would only change the outcome from Columbus perspective. Although I am sure they'd rather have cap space than Saad's contract for the next two years. Losing Panarin to free agency will be devastating for Columbus because they got a taste of having a superstar on their team. Not because they "lost" Saad.

100% spot on!

 

[BK]

I am confused by your insistence that Panarin leaving Columbus has any impact on the outcome of the trade from Chicago's perspective. It would only change the outcome from Columbus perspective. Although I am sure they'd rather have cap space than Saad's contract for the next two years. Losing Panarin to free agency will be devastating for Columbus because they got a taste of having a superstar on their team. Not because they "lost" Saad.

If you look at it from the lense that AP would be walking from Chicago not Columbus or that Chicago May have both Saad AND AP it is pretty clear.

Not saying I agree but that is how you can logically view it.

 

[piteus]

I am confused by your insistence that Panarin leaving Columbus has any impact on the outcome of the trade from Chicago's perspective. It would only change the outcome from Columbus perspective. Although I am sure they'd rather have cap space than Saad's contract for the next two years. Losing Panarin to free agency will be devastating for Columbus because they got a taste of having a superstar on their team. Not because they "lost" Saad.

You're not getting the point. The Hawks had to promise certain things to sign Panarin from Russia. This goes well BEFORE the trade of Panarin for Saad. This goes back to April 2015. The Hawks had to make certain promises to Panarin's agent.

Panarin didn't play much in the 2015 preseason. In fact, he was injured. However, he was immediately put on Kane's line in the regular season. Even Kahun had to prove himself some in preseason before he was put on Toews line.

 

[piteus]

100% spot on!

I don't think you understand my premise.

 

[migi]

Forsling, at one point, was our best 2nd defenseman for a stretch. He looked like he belonged on the top pairing. But he's not consistent. He struggles with the speed of the game.

That being said, he has potential. He just needs to reestablish that he belongs. Maybe it's a confidence thing. Maybe it's an experience thing. Either way, he's had a taste of the pros and has shown something in that time...he's gotta prove that he can do it game in-game out.

Let's remember that he is 22-years-old. Keith was like 23 when he truly established himself in NHL.

 

[LDF]

You're not getting the point. The Hawks had to promise certain things to sign Panarin from Russia. This goes well BEFORE the trade of Panarin for Saad. This goes back to April 2015. The Hawks had to make certain promises to Panarin's agent.

Panarin didn't play much in the 2015 preseason. In fact, he was injured. However, he was immediately put on Kane's line in the regular season. Even Kahun had to prove himself some in preseason before he was put on Toews line.

that was great background info. i didn't know alot of what you wrote.

many thanks.

 

[piteus]

that was great background info. i didn't know alot of what you wrote.

many thanks.

I'm not saying the Panarin signing pushed Saad out. However, there were a lot of moving parts in order for the Hawks to sign Panarin over the Penguins, etc.

The Saad for Anisimov and Dano trade ... to Panarin for Saad and Forsberg trade had a lot of moving parts. It's not as easy as just saying the Panarin for Saad trade was TERRIBLE. On that snap shot, of course it was terrible. However, that trade was cluttered by the peripherals AND still not done yet. That's all I'm saying.

 

[LDF]

I'm not saying the Panarin signing pushed Saad out. However, there were a lot of moving parts in order for the Hawks to sign Panarin over the Penguins, etc.

The Saad for Anisimov and Dano trade ... to Panarin for Saad and Forsberg trade had a lot of moving parts. It's not as easy as just saying the Panarin for Saad trade was TERRIBLE. On that snap shot, of course it was terrible. However, that trade was cluttered by the peripherals AND still not done yet. That's all I'm saying.

no matter what was the extra parts you write. i am talking about the bold .....

 

[ColdSteel2]

No Panarin trade, no Boqvist. Saad is just gravy, hopefully he turns it around. I’ll still take Boqvist over Panarin though.

 

[piteus]

No Panarin trade, no Boqvist. Saad is just gravy, hopefully he turns it around. I’ll still take Boqvist over Panarin though.

Cheap young DMen with high performance on the ice is gold. I suspect Joker's value is extremely high right now.

Boqvist has a ton of upside, but he still needs to prove himself on the ice. Panarin's price tag is a major concern in a hard capped sport. That brings down his value some.

 

[Rolo]

Hoffman's wife was proven innocent in her trial, regarding the harassment case.

To Chicago:
Mike Hoffman

To Florida:
Brandon Saad

Hoffman is faster than Fortin, with a better shot, and can play the point on the PP. Contract is a tad bit cheaper, and expires sooner.

Debrincat-Toews-Kahun
Hoffman-Schmaltz-Kane

PP1
Debrincat-Toews-Kane
Jokiharju-Hoffman

PP2-
Schmaltz-Anisimov-Kahun
Seabrook-Gustafsson

^Schmaltz running his own PP unit would be better for his development IMO.

 

[RayP]

Hoffman's wife was proven innocent in her trial, regarding the harassment case.

To Chicago:
Mike Hoffman

To Florida:
Brandon Saad

Hoffman is faster than Fortin, with a better shot, and can play the point on the PP. Contract is a tad bit cheaper, and expires sooner.

Debrincat-Toews-Kahun
Hoffman-Schmaltz-Kane

PP1
Debrincat-Toews-Kane
Jokiharju-Hoffman

PP2-
Schmaltz-Anisimov-Kahun
Seabrook-Gustafsson

^Schmaltz running his own PP unit would be better for his development IMO.

Is Florida looking to move Hoffman?

 

[Giovi]

Hoffman's wife was proven innocent in her trial, regarding the harassment case.

To Chicago:
Mike Hoffman

To Florida:
Brandon Saad

Hoffman is faster than Fortin, with a better shot, and can play the point on the PP. Contract is a tad bit cheaper, and expires sooner.

Debrincat-Toews-Kahun
Hoffman-Schmaltz-Kane

PP1
Debrincat-Toews-Kane
Jokiharju-Hoffman

PP2-
Schmaltz-Anisimov-Kahun
Seabrook-Gustafsson

^Schmaltz running his own PP unit would be better for his development IMO.

I dont think theres ever been a trial, criminal or civil, to prove either guilt or innocence.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Hoffman's wife was proven innocent in her trial, regarding the harassment case.

Link?

 

[Rolo]

Link?

Okay I didn't read the article properly, but it seems like she's in the clear.

Mike Hoffman’s fiancee not planning to sue Erik Karlsson’s wife: lawyer

Either way theres no evidence being presented that she did it..

 

[coolhand]

Looks like Saad is IN the lineup tonight. When Q was asked about his demotion to the 4th line AND wearing a white jersey at practice, he said it wasn't a hard decision at all. So, at least Q is holding him somewhat accountable. I would bench him for a game or 2 and let him watch from the press box.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Is Florida looking to move Hoffman?

He was just demoted to their fourth line, so maybe?

 

[RayP]

He was just demoted to their fourth line, so maybe?

Oh wow really? I didn’t realize he was playing that poorly.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Oh wow really? I didn’t realize he was playing that poorly.

I doubt they move him early, they'll give him time.

 

[x Tame Impala]

You can absolutely look at the Saad for Panarin trade in a vacuum. The Anisimov, Forsberg, Dano, + pieces are in the past and IMHO not relevant anymore.

It was a good trade in theory when you factor in the cap/contract uncertainty and the Hawks being an unsuccessful one line team when Panarin was here, but it's been objectively bad in practice.

I actually really liked the trade at the time. I thought it would get the Hawks back to form so to speak. Having a Toews line that dominates possession and shuts down opps best lines is how we won our Cups. Saad just simply didn't return to his old self when he came back.

Bad trade.