Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VII

[Silencio]

Nope. They would need to use their own picks.

Ah. Yeah I thought it was too easy.

 

[alfstheman]

Let's say Ottawa signed Nylander to an $8 million/year offer sheet (which won't happen because Melnyk but whatever). Could they use the 1st and 2nd round picks acquired in the Karlsson trade, plus their own 2019 third rounder, as part of the compensation for Toronto? If so, Nylander becomes that grade A top 6 blue chip young player that everyone thought we should've got back for Karlsson.

Doubt nylander would want to sign with the sens even if melnyk would pay. Id rather keep our picks than trade the future for a guy that would probably demand a trade after a season or two

 

[TheNewEra]

bobby ryan for brandon saad lets e5 this shit

 

[DylanSensFan]

Ryan is invisible until he isn't.

He's like the opposite of Duchene who is always doing something even if nothing happens.

I feel Ryan has been anything but invisible this season. Just because he ain't racking up the points yet, doesn't mean he isn't doing stuff. In the last game alone there were some great defensive plays he was part of. He has also been ridiculous on the PP. He almost set up a Duchene goal, that then turned into a Boedker goal. I think all this negativity toward Ryan might be warranted from last season. But I feel he is just beginning to scratch the surface of a "Ryan Renaissance."

 

[NyQuil]

I feel Ryan has been anything but invisible this season. Just because he ain't racking up the points yet, doesn't mean he isn't doing stuff. In the last game alone there were some great defensive plays he was part of. He has also been ridiculous on the PP. He almost set up a Duchene goal, that then turned into a Boedker goal. I think all this negativity toward Ryan might be warranted from last season. But I feel he is just beginning to scratch the surface of a "Ryan Renaissance."

I find that I really don't notice him for long stretches of the game.

I'll try to pay closer attention.

I did see the play that led to the Boedker goal.

 

[coladin]

I find that I really don't notice him for long stretches of the game.

I'll try to pay closer attention.

I did see the play that led to the Boedker goal.

And it was nice that Boedker was looking for Ryan to get him that puck. Hopefully the coach saw that too and keeps them together

 

[Stylizer1]

I feel Ryan has been anything but invisible this season. Just because he ain't racking up the points yet, doesn't mean he isn't doing stuff. In the last game alone there were some great defensive plays he was part of. He has also been ridiculous on the PP. He almost set up a Duchene goal, that then turned into a Boedker goal. I think all this negativity toward Ryan might be warranted from last season. But I feel he is just beginning to scratch the surface of a "Ryan Renaissance."

Remember though, Ryan has huge slumps.

We went from removing all the star power up front around Ryan and replaced them with less skilled and less experienced replacements and Ryan still remains a question mark.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I agree. Hypothetically (or maybe not, Ottawa has been kicking tires on Nylander from what I've heard) what kind of package could we offer the Leafs? They'd probably ask for Chabot which is a non starter.

Pipe dream.

Let's do Ceci for Nylander, straight up.

 

[Silencio]

 

[Xspyrit]

I feel Ryan has been anything but invisible this season. Just because he ain't racking up the points yet, doesn't mean he isn't doing stuff. In the last game alone there were some great defensive plays he was part of. He has also been ridiculous on the PP. He almost set up a Duchene goal, that then turned into a Boedker goal. I think all this negativity toward Ryan might be warranted from last season. But I feel he is just beginning to scratch the surface of a "Ryan Renaissance."

Also, Lajoie’s goal happened because of a great Ryan defensive play; then he set up Stone for a glorious chance on the PP, Duchene chance, etc. The game before, he sent Paajarvi on a breakaway, etc. Ryan does create offense every game, make some nice zone entries or participate in the cycle or defensive breakups. It’s up to people to not look at the number behind the back before but after the play was made

Personally, I notice all the plays players make; and they all make a ton of good and bad plays. Depth players don’t make a lot of good plays; they’re just there to « survive », no bad plays is the priority. Ryan makes a lot of subtles good plays that certainly doesn’t go unnoticed by the coaching staff.

I’ll support this claim with xgf/60 and scf/60, etc later

What’s funny is that Ryan plays like Stone, both players are slower than most NHL players but rely on a good stick and high hockey IQ and playmaking. The only difference is that Stone is elite in those things.

That being said, keep Ryan-Duchene-Ryan together, then have :

Tkachuk-Tierney-Stone
Dzingel-Smith-White
Paajarvi-Carey-Pyatt

Until Pageau is back then :

Dzingel-Pageau-White
Paajarvi-Smith-Pyatt

Please Boucher, reduce Pyatt’s TOI, as well as Smith and Paajarvi

 

[Alex1234]

Also, Lajoie’s goal happened because of a great Ryan defensive play; then he set up Stone for a glorious chance on the PP, Duchene chance, etc. The game before, he sent Paajarvi on a breakaway, etc. Ryan does create offense every game, make some nice zone entries or participate in the cycle or defensive breakups. It’s up to people to not look at the number behind the back before but after the play was made

Personally, I notice all the plays players make; and they all make a ton of good and bad plays. Depth players don’t make a lot of good plays; they’re just there to « survive », no bad plays is the priority. Ryan makes a lot of subtles good plays that certainly doesn’t go unnoticed by the coaching staff.

I’ll support this claim with xgf/60 and scf/60, etc later

What’s funny is that Ryan plays like Stone, both players are slower than most NHL players but rely on a good stick and high hockey IQ and playmaking. The only difference is that Stone is elite in those things.

That being said, keep Ryan-Duchene-Ryan together, then have :

Tkachuk-Tierney-Stone
Dzingel-Smith-White
Paajarvi-Carey-Pyatt

Until Pageau is back then :

Dzingel-Pageau-White
Paajarvi-Smith-Pyatt

Please Boucher, reduce Pyatt’s TOI, as well as Smith and Paajarvi

Imagine if he wasn't even making the ''little things''...
at 7 per

MVP and Paajarvi also do the ''little things'' too

 

[stempniaksen]

What’s funny is that Ryan plays like Stone.

In the same way that hamburger is kinda like prime rib?

 

[Stylizer1]

In the same way that hamburger is kinda like prime rib?

You like this. x 10

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I feel Ryan has been anything but invisible this season. Just because he ain't racking up the points yet, doesn't mean he isn't doing stuff. In the last game alone there were some great defensive plays he was part of. He has also been ridiculous on the PP. He almost set up a Duchene goal, that then turned into a Boedker goal. I think all this negativity toward Ryan might be warranted from last season. But I feel he is just beginning to scratch the surface of a "Ryan Renaissance."

If we seperate him from his contract, he's still a good player who is much better than whoever we replace him for in our 22 man lineup at 650k (McCormick?).

The argument for buying him out is that he does not fit the identity we are trying to cultivate on the ice, and we're not trying to win now. It'd be an investment in further altering our on ice identity to one that features hard working high motor players.

I don't know the positives or negatives of him in the room, but if there's any inkling that we might benefit from moving on in that respect, there's more motivation to do it.

 

[Ice-Tray]

In the same way that hamburger is kinda like prime rib?

Prime rib burgers are yummy too!

 

[Xspyrit]

Imagine if he wasn't even making the ''little things''...
at 7 per

MVP and Paajarvi also do the ''little things'' too

We can't afford a PP specialist at 7 per
He can be replaced within imo
Anyway he won't be here in 3-4 years when were ready to compete

In the same way that hamburger is kinda like prime rib?

Ok let's check Ryan's output in his 2 worst seasons (2016-17 + 2017-18), among forwards who played significant time. Note that Turris and Duchene didn't play on the team at the same time. All numbers are taken from Corsica

Points/60

Mark Stone 2.69
Mike Hoffman 2.50
Matt Duchene 2.35
Kyle Turris 2.29
Derick Brassard 1.90
Ryan Dzingel 1.77
Bobby Ryan 1.76

P1/60 (primary points)

Mark Stone 2.03
Matt Duchene 1.96
Mike Hoffman 1.94
Kyle Turris 1.75
Ryan Dzingel 1.51
Derick Brassard 1.43
Bobby Ryan 1.33

CF/60

Mark Stone 68.68
Kyle Turris 66.85
Derick Brassard 66.76
Mike Hoffman 65.78
Bobby Ryan 65.46

CA/60

Mark Stone 49.97
Mike Hoffman 50.69
Derick Brassard 50.74
Bobby Ryan 53.08

iCF/60 (individual Corsi For)

Mike Hoffman 18.44
Derick Brassard 14.6
Bobby Ryan 14.04

SAT Rel%

Derick Brassard 6.42%
Mark Stone 6.42%
Mike Hoffman 1.89%
Bobby Ryan 1.55%

SF/60

Mark Stone 36.5
Kyle Turris 36.14
Derick Brassard 35.54
Mike Hoffman 34.94
Bobby Ryan 33.29

SA/60

Mark Stone 26.25
Derick Brassard 26.75
Mike Hoffman 27.66
Bobby Ryan 27.75

GF/60

Mark Stone 4.03
Mike Hoffman 3.8
Derick Brassard 3.53
Kyle Turris 3.52
Matt Duchene 3.19
Bobby Ryan 3.12

GA/60

Kyle Turris 2.05
Derick Brassard 2.46
Mike Hoffman 2.54
Mark Stone 2.62
Ryan Dzingel 2.67
Bobby Ryan 2.75

xGF/60

Mark Stone 3.43
Derick Brassard 3.22
Kyle Turris 3.21
Mike Hoffman 3.09
Matt Duchene 2.93
Ryan Dzingel 2.82
Bobby Ryan 2.77

ixGF/60 (individual expected Goals For)

Matt Duchene 0.87
Derick Brassard 0.85
Mark Stone 0.84
JG Pageau 0.81
Mike Hoffman 0.8
Ryan Dzingel 0.76
Zack Smith 0.71
Alex Burrows 0.67
Kyle Turris 0.67
Bobby Ryan 0.65

Note : this shows that Ryan is more of a playmaker and is not the one trying to score goals. Compare it with xGF/60 which is when he is on the ice vs this one which is individual.

xGA/60

Kyle Turris 2.39
Bobby Ryan 2.41

Note : if Ryan is "terrible" defensively, how come he had the 2nd best expected goals against on the team during those 2 years?

Shootout scoring %

Matt Duchene 50.0% (2/4)
Mike Hoffman 40.0% (2/5)
Kyle Turris 35.7% (5/14)
Bobby Ryan 33.3% (4/12)

Note : he's not only a "PP specialist" it seems but quite successful at scoring in the shootout as well.

Hits/GP

Chris Neil 2.0
Nate Thompson 1.8
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 1.8
Bobby Ryan 1.7

Now regarding the comment that he is a "PP specialist", how come he is higher relative to others in those categories?

P/60 at ES

Mark Stone 2.29
Matt Duchene 2.13
Bobby Ryan 1.71 (vs 1.76 when you include PP)
Mike Hoffman 1.71

P1/60

Matt Duchene 1.73
Mark Stone 1.65
Mike Hoffman 1.47
Ryan Dzingel 1.43
Bobby Ryan 1.34 (vs 1.33 when you include PP)


How come Ryan doesn't have much worse stats if he is as bad as people are saying? And that's only looking at his 2 worst seasons... If you look at 2013-14 to 2015-16, it's much better. So what do you guys got? That I am "cherry picking" stats?

 

[Tuna99]

If there was ever a game Ottawa needed someone to step up and replace Brady for a game it’s this game vs Montreal on Saturday - but I just can’t expect Ryan to be our best forward and be the difference maker. If Ryan is a beast this is a playoff team, and let’s see if he can step up on Saturday

 

[JD1]

Ok let's check Ryan's output in his 2 worst seasons (2016-17 + 2017-18), among forwards who played significant time. Note that Turris and Duchene didn't play on the team at the same time. All numbers are taken from Corsica

Points/60

Mark Stone 2.69
Mike Hoffman 2.50
Matt Duchene 2.35
Kyle Turris 2.29
Derick Brassard 1.90
Ryan Dzingel 1.77
Bobby Ryan 1.76

P1/60 (primary points)

Mark Stone 2.03
Matt Duchene 1.96
Mike Hoffman 1.94
Kyle Turris 1.75
Ryan Dzingel 1.51
Derick Brassard 1.43
Bobby Ryan 1.33

CF/60

Mark Stone 68.68
Kyle Turris 66.85
Derick Brassard 66.76
Mike Hoffman 65.78
Bobby Ryan 65.46

CA/60

Mark Stone 49.97
Mike Hoffman 50.69
Derick Brassard 50.74
Bobby Ryan 53.08

iCF/60 (individual Corsi For)

Mike Hoffman 18.44
Derick Brassard 14.6
Bobby Ryan 14.04

SAT Rel%

Derick Brassard 6.42%
Mark Stone 6.42%
Mike Hoffman 1.89%
Bobby Ryan 1.55%

SF/60

Mark Stone 36.5
Kyle Turris 36.14
Derick Brassard 35.54
Mike Hoffman 34.94
Bobby Ryan 33.29

SA/60

Mark Stone 26.25
Derick Brassard 26.75
Mike Hoffman 27.66
Bobby Ryan 27.75

GF/60

Mark Stone 4.03
Mike Hoffman 3.8
Derick Brassard 3.53
Kyle Turris 3.52
Matt Duchene 3.19
Bobby Ryan 3.12

GA/60

Kyle Turris 2.05
Derick Brassard 2.46
Mike Hoffman 2.54
Mark Stone 2.62
Ryan Dzingel 2.67
Bobby Ryan 2.75

xGF/60

Mark Stone 3.43
Derick Brassard 3.22
Kyle Turris 3.21
Mike Hoffman 3.09
Matt Duchene 2.93
Ryan Dzingel 2.82
Bobby Ryan 2.77

ixGF/60 (individual expected Goals For)

Matt Duchene 0.87
Derick Brassard 0.85
Mark Stone 0.84
JG Pageau 0.81
Mike Hoffman 0.8
Ryan Dzingel 0.76
Zack Smith 0.71
Alex Burrows 0.67
Kyle Turris 0.67
Bobby Ryan 0.65

Note : this shows that Ryan is more of a playmaker and is not the one trying to score goals. Compare it with xGF/60 which is when he is on the ice vs this one which is individual.

xGA/60

Kyle Turris 2.39
Bobby Ryan 2.41

Note : if Ryan is "terrible" defensively, how come he had the 2nd best expected goals against on the team during those 2 years?

Shootout scoring %

Matt Duchene 50.0% (2/4)
Mike Hoffman 40.0% (2/5)
Kyle Turris 35.7% (5/14)
Bobby Ryan 33.3% (4/12)

Note : he's not only a "PP specialist" it seems but quite successful at scoring in the shootout as well.

Hits/GP

Chris Neil 2.0
Nate Thompson 1.8
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 1.8
Bobby Ryan 1.7

Now regarding the comment that he is a "PP specialist", how come he is higher relative to others in those categories?

P/60 at ES

Mark Stone 2.29
Matt Duchene 2.13
Bobby Ryan 1.71 (vs 1.76 when you include PP)
Mike Hoffman 1.71

P1/60

Matt Duchene 1.73
Mark Stone 1.65
Mike Hoffman 1.47
Ryan Dzingel 1.43
Bobby Ryan 1.34 (vs 1.33 when you include PP)


How come Ryan doesn't have much worse stats if he is as bad as people are saying? And that's only looking at his 2 worst seasons... If you look at 2013-14 to 2015-16, it's much better. So what do you guys got? That I am "cherry picking" stats?

Ryan is a flag pole for criticism around here on all kinds of fronts

HF Sens - Ryan is out of shape
Boucher - his testing the last two seasons is awesome. I couldn't be bothered to look the quotes up but they are there. look for them.

HF Sens - Ryan's lazy
he is one of the most physical players we have. I hate the hand injuries but they come from being in front of the net which is a quality this team really lacks

Ryan is an excellent play maker. All the "little" plays are there and yes they are easy to see.

What Ryan has lost is the ability to shoot. I guess 9 hand injuries does that to a guy. The reason he's out there for shootouts is because he can dangle.

if you rework his numbers with the prior two years they'd be much better.

I've seen evidence of him shooting more which is good. hopefully he has some 45+ point seasons left in him. he'll never be worth his 7.5 M again but that's a common problem when signing UFAs

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I agree. Hypothetically (or maybe not, Ottawa has been kicking tires on Nylander from what I've heard) what kind of package could we offer the Leafs? They'd probably ask for Chabot which is a non starter.

They'd probably want Chabot + good prospect (Batherson?).

 

[topshelf15]

They'd probably want Chabot + good prospect (Batherson?).

Yeah just something we cant do...Nylander would be a very nice add,but the cost isnt what we can realistically afford

 

[Que]

If Ottawa were looking at acquiring Nylander I’d imagine two scenarios.

1. Ceci + Ryan (1.5-2.25 retained) + fast prospect Batherson/Formenton

2. Ceci + Dzingle + physical prospect Gagne/Nurmi

Doubt the leafs do either but if there was a 3rd team who would take Ryan from the leafs in exchange for a 2nd we might be cooking something up.

 

[Alex1234]

Ok let's check Ryan's output in his 2 worst seasons (2016-17 + 2017-18), among forwards who played significant time. Note that Turris and Duchene didn't play on the team at the same time. All numbers are taken from Corsica

Points/60

Mark Stone 2.69
Mike Hoffman 2.50
Matt Duchene 2.35
Kyle Turris 2.29
Derick Brassard 1.90
Ryan Dzingel 1.77
Bobby Ryan 1.76

P1/60 (primary points)

Mark Stone 2.03
Matt Duchene 1.96
Mike Hoffman 1.94
Kyle Turris 1.75
Ryan Dzingel 1.51
Derick Brassard 1.43
Bobby Ryan 1.33

CF/60

Mark Stone 68.68
Kyle Turris 66.85
Derick Brassard 66.76
Mike Hoffman 65.78
Bobby Ryan 65.46

CA/60

Mark Stone 49.97
Mike Hoffman 50.69
Derick Brassard 50.74
Bobby Ryan 53.08

iCF/60 (individual Corsi For)

Mike Hoffman 18.44
Derick Brassard 14.6
Bobby Ryan 14.04

SAT Rel%

Derick Brassard 6.42%
Mark Stone 6.42%
Mike Hoffman 1.89%
Bobby Ryan 1.55%

SF/60

Mark Stone 36.5
Kyle Turris 36.14
Derick Brassard 35.54
Mike Hoffman 34.94
Bobby Ryan 33.29

SA/60

Mark Stone 26.25
Derick Brassard 26.75
Mike Hoffman 27.66
Bobby Ryan 27.75

GF/60

Mark Stone 4.03
Mike Hoffman 3.8
Derick Brassard 3.53
Kyle Turris 3.52
Matt Duchene 3.19
Bobby Ryan 3.12

GA/60

Kyle Turris 2.05
Derick Brassard 2.46
Mike Hoffman 2.54
Mark Stone 2.62
Ryan Dzingel 2.67
Bobby Ryan 2.75

xGF/60

Mark Stone 3.43
Derick Brassard 3.22
Kyle Turris 3.21
Mike Hoffman 3.09
Matt Duchene 2.93
Ryan Dzingel 2.82
Bobby Ryan 2.77

ixGF/60 (individual expected Goals For)

Matt Duchene 0.87
Derick Brassard 0.85
Mark Stone 0.84
JG Pageau 0.81
Mike Hoffman 0.8
Ryan Dzingel 0.76
Zack Smith 0.71
Alex Burrows 0.67
Kyle Turris 0.67
Bobby Ryan 0.65

Note : this shows that Ryan is more of a playmaker and is not the one trying to score goals. Compare it with xGF/60 which is when he is on the ice vs this one which is individual.

xGA/60

Kyle Turris 2.39
Bobby Ryan 2.41

Note : if Ryan is "terrible" defensively, how come he had the 2nd best expected goals against on the team during those 2 years?

Shootout scoring %

Matt Duchene 50.0% (2/4)
Mike Hoffman 40.0% (2/5)
Kyle Turris 35.7% (5/14)
Bobby Ryan 33.3% (4/12)

Note : he's not only a "PP specialist" it seems but quite successful at scoring in the shootout as well.

Hits/GP

Chris Neil 2.0
Nate Thompson 1.8
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 1.8
Bobby Ryan 1.7

Now regarding the comment that he is a "PP specialist", how come he is higher relative to others in those categories?

P/60 at ES

Mark Stone 2.29
Matt Duchene 2.13
Bobby Ryan 1.71 (vs 1.76 when you include PP)
Mike Hoffman 1.71

P1/60

Matt Duchene 1.73
Mark Stone 1.65
Mike Hoffman 1.47
Ryan Dzingel 1.43
Bobby Ryan 1.34 (vs 1.33 when you include PP)


How come Ryan doesn't have much worse stats if he is as bad as people are saying? And that's only looking at his 2 worst seasons... If you look at 2013-14 to 2015-16, it's much better. So what do you guys got? That I am "cherry picking" stats?

They didnt want Turris,Brassard and Hoffmann at 6,5,4 MM$ per year ;each of whom at better stats the last 2 years

Do we really need a 7MM$ per year player for 29pts average the last 2 years?

I think Euge would answer no to this question

Just my opinion

 

[JungleBeat]

If Ottawa were looking at acquiring Nylander I’d imagine two scenarios.

1. Ceci + Ryan (1.5-2.25 retained) + fast prospect Batherson/Formenton

2. Ceci + Dzingle + physical prospect Gagne/Nurmi

Doubt the leafs do either but if there was a 3rd team who would take Ryan from the leafs in exchange for a 2nd we might be cooking something up.

Don’t think Ceci has any value to the Leafs when he’s getting paid $4M.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Imagine if he wasn't even making the ''little things''...
at 7 per

MVP and Paajarvi also do the ''little things'' too

Not as bad as people say! He dumped that puck in which was the right play!

 

[Masked]

If Ottawa were looking at acquiring Nylander I’d imagine two scenarios.

1. Ceci + Ryan (1.5-2.25 retained) + fast prospect Batherson/Formenton

2. Ceci + Dzingle + physical prospect Gagne/Nurmi

Doubt the leafs do either but if there was a 3rd team who would take Ryan from the leafs in exchange for a 2nd we might be cooking something up.

Doubt the Leafs would want Ceci since there's a Corsi kid running the show for them.