Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VII

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Stylizer1

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Jun 12, 2009
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I've got a feeling we're going to finally cut bait on him this season in a trade that saves us very little cash. I could see Detroit as a trade partner since their cap situation is completely messed up, and if Zetterberg and Franzen are insured, we could probably work something around Ryan half retained for one or both of them, and it would save us a few million dollars, save Melnyk from having to pay Ryan 2M (edit we'd still owe 1M if half retained) during the lockout, and it would help Detroit alleviate their cap situation since even know those two players are LTIR eligible, LTIR isn't the same as free and clear cap space.
Is he a 4 million dollar player though?
 

danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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Is he a 4 million dollar player though?

No he's not, which is why I think we probably have to find a scenario where we both retain half and take on insured contracts.

Nobody is taking Ryan at even half retained. He's got four years left and has a laundry list of hand injuries which along with his conditioning prevent him from being consistently effective for 82 games.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
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Ryan had monster playoffs what, 16 months ago? He has proved over the years that he is very capable of playing great hockey but what has been hard for him is to be able to do it for 82 games. It's a very long schedule and with age and injuries, it becomes harder as he might not have the greatest endurance to begin with. People talk like if players were robots but somebody out of shape probably wouldn't even last one period in the NHL.

That being said, people still expect him to be a powerforward goal scorer, which he is absolutely not. He was scoring lot of goals before because of his elite talent and also because he was playing with great players. He also had a much better shot younger (before injuries) but in the end he is a finesse playmaker. Even when he is out there trying to score a goal, it will be with finesse.



See on that video (I'm sure a lot of the haters didn't even notice), Ryan drives the net for a tic tac toe but the Tierney pass gets intercepted, then Ryan has the quickness of mind with the soft hands to put a stick on that with a defender on his back, but unfortunately Pickard followed through.

It's funny that people will be wondering if he is a 4 M$ player, yet his PPG in his 2 worst seasons is similar or even better than a lot of forwards making good coin

NHL.com - Stats



I think he was pretty good last night.

Still overpaid and we need him to be better but he was more involved than he had been in the previous three games. He looked solid on the left point on that first PP.

I don't understand how people can endlessly rail on him and fail to see that he isn't a net negative. Well except FQL who feels the need to bring in politics whenever Ryan is brought up.

It'd be smart to take anything you read on HF (and on the internet for that matter) with a gigantic grain of salt. You'd have to be pretty naive to not be able to identify the opinions driven by biased hate. Personally, that's what I analyze first and then I just discredit these posts like if nothing was said. I am more interested in facts and evidence like the stuff I posted in the Flyers GDT (see post #942 for example : https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/150574225/)

While he hasn't had the best season start possible, everything suggests that it's clearly not as bad as some
people are trying to paint.

What is extremely funny though, is that those people who constantly bash Ryan are the same that would have told you that the Tkachuk pick was garbage, even though he plays exactly the way that they would need Ryan to play to leave him alone. They just never stop and it's ridicularious. :laugh:
 
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Boud

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I would deal him just to move on from him from a team perspective. I don't think he has a place on the team going forward and he's always injured or playing injured which doesn't help us at all. Pageau will be coming back mid-year and they could simply put Tierney at wing or replace Ryan with one of White, Chlapik, Batherson, Balcers ...

Just not having him in the lineup will be a plus.
 

armani

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Healthy scratch him. He’s too comfortable.

On the contrary, he doesn't look comfortable at all. Lacking confidence, the body language is as bad as ever.
Ryan is mentally weak on ice, the GM who drafted him in Anahem was right.

“He is not intense. That word is not in his vocabulary,” Burke said during one meeting, as quoted by ESPN.com. “It’s never going to be in his vocabulary. He can’t spell intense.”

When Ryan plays with intensity (2016 playoffs), he is a legit player. That happens very rarely, it's not in his DNA and seems to come only at bursts once in a bluemoon.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
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IMO Ryan still has a decent skill level & is a decent playmaker & put with the right linemates can still have an impact for this team. Clearly he is not worth what he is being paid but since we can't seem to trade that salary/player the best thing to do is put him into a position where he can use his skills, make plays & put up some pts for this team. Bitching & complaining about his salary gets us nowhere & we all agree he makes too much, but it is what it is. Best thing is to try to get as much out of him as possible until you can unload him or until the contract is over, in the meantime upgrade where you can & rid yourself of players that you can unload. Smith is in the exact same position making too much to unload & should be placed in a position that helps the team, not hurt it. Condon & Anderson it can be argued are also making more than they are worth.

Not sure why people complain so much about certain players when there is very little anyone can do about it when their value & contribution is less than their salary, it basically makes them un-tradable. So they have to make do with what they have & can't get rid of until they can, but there are guys they can get rid of & they have younger players with potential that can replace those players & improve the team IMO & they should. For example, would anyone care if they traded Wideman tomorrow for a pick & inserted Harpur in his place & if he doesn't work out insert Jaros? Would anyone care if they traded Pyatt or Paajarvi if possible & replaced them with Chlapik or Brown? I would prefer to see these prospects over some of the guys we have now & IMO PD should be trying to make these moves now & GB should be playing these young guys with better players in positions where they can succeed.
 

Xspyrit

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On the contrary, he doesn't look comfortable at all. Lacking confidence, the body language is as bad as ever.
Ryan is mentally weak on ice, the GM who drafted him in Anahem was right.

He is not intense. That word is not in his vocabulary,” Burke said during one meeting, as quoted by ESPN.com. “It’s never going to be in his vocabulary. He can’t spell intense.”

When Ryan plays with intensity (2016 playoffs), he is a legit player. That happens very rarely, it's not in his DNA and seems to come only at bursts once in a bluemoon.

not intense = mentally weak?

:dunno:
 

Boud

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not intense = mentally weak?

:dunno:

The guy is clearly lacking confidence and has talked about his mental state before. He's the type of player that's very hard on himself and that gets down easily when things go south. I remember he and Wendel Clarke had talked when Ryan got really cold in one of his first years here and told him to play physically and just be a presence out there and eventually he would get back on track. It's been a problem with Ryan for a while and he's been pretty open about it.

Mentally weak might not be the best way to put it but I assume it was meant as a person that has a hard time being positive when time gets tough and that can be seen as mentally weak. It's unfortunate because the guy is often injured, has battled with a lot of adversity throughout his childhood and lately with the death of his mother. You can see he isn't the same player he was and his confidence just isn't there.

Low confidence is a killer in pro sports. You can have all the abilities necessary to be a good player, even hockey IQ, and end up out of the league in a hurry if you're not confident on the ice. There is no doubt in my mind that we need to move on from Ryan and that Ryan needs to move on from Ottawa. It just hasn't worked out, he needs a fresh start, he needs to enjoy being out there and it's just not happening here.
 
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armani

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not intense = mentally weak?

:dunno:

On ice, Ryan definitely is. I don't know him personally and am not callimg him that in life jtbc.

Ryan loses his confidence very easily, he starts to flop and treat the puck like a grenade unless something happens during a game (like a fluke goal by him) that sees him play with more confidence, using his body, winning puck battles, and be more productive. For a few stretches of games (in streak), before going back to his floppy ways when things start to go wrong.

His issue is more mental than his physical abilities, which unfortunately will continue to diminish with age.
 

otown

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Moving him is a great idea but there aren't many takers. You would basically have to still pay him to play somewhere else. Ryan has great hands (maybe not) but his speed is sooooo slow. In todays game you can become a pylon pretty quickly.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Moving him is a great idea but there aren't many takers. You would basically have to still pay him to play somewhere else. Ryan has great hands (maybe not) but his speed is sooooo slow. In todays game you can become a pylon pretty quickly.

I think that's the point we are at though.

Even know Ryan (when healthy) is better offensively than some of our alternatives, we're in a rebuild.

Is his work ethic and presence in the room a positive, a negative, or just neutral? (I don't know the answer, I am not there).

Ryan won't even be around as a player to contribute when this team is built up in 3+ years, so even if we save very little salary doing so, are we at a point where this organization derives more benefits from trading Ryan away which removes a 1 way contract and makes further changes to the room?
 

Sens of Anarchy

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I think that's the point we are at though.

Even know Ryan (when healthy) is better offensively than some of our alternatives, we're in a rebuild.

Is his work ethic and presence in the room a positive, a negative, or just neutral? (I don't know the answer, I am not there).

Ryan won't even be around as a player to contribute when this team is built up in 3+ years, so even if we save very little salary doing so, are we at a point where this organization derives more benefits from trading Ryan away which removes a 1 way contract and makes further changes to the room?

If we have to retain 3.5 + to trade him for nothing of any value .. Why not buy him out?
 

Alex1234

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What ever he is : a finesse player or a non-intense player

We don't need him
We just don't
Were rebuilding
Trade him and retain whats needed to be retained
 

armani

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I think that's the point we are at though.

Even know Ryan (when healthy) is better offensively than some of our alternatives, we're in a rebuild.

Is his work ethic and presence in the room a positive, a negative, or just neutral? (I don't know the answer, I am not there).

Ryan won't even be around as a player to contribute when this team is built up in 3+ years, so even if we save very little salary doing so, are we at a point where this organization derives more benefits from trading Ryan away which removes a 1 way contract and makes further changes to the room?

If he showed any consistent productivity, I would jump at the opportunity to trade him in a Phaneuf type 25% - 40% cap retention.

Melnyk won't buy him out when he is in liquidation mode. He is already paying 2/3rds of Alex Burrows' salary.
 

Alex1234

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If he showed any consistent productivity, I would jump at the opportunity to trade him in a Phaneuf type 25% - 40% cap retention.

Melnyk won't buy him out when he is in liquidation mode. He is already paying 2/3rds of Alex Burrows' salary.
True lol
Has that cup run ever cost us hey?
 

danielpalfredsson

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If we have to retain 3.5 + to trade him for nothing of any value .. Why not buy him out?

Because, his signing bonuses are buyout proof.

If we buy him out next July, it's 3.8M for the next three seasons, and then 1.8M for three more seasons after that.

If we trade him half retained before his next signing bonus is paid (reportedly it is in May), we owe him 3.75M for the next four seasons.

So not only do we save 5.4M more than a buyout via trading him half retained, but we also would only be responsible for half of his signing bonus in a lockout season. This brings it up to 6.4M for practical purposes.
 
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danielpalfredsson

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If he showed any consistent productivity, I would jump at the opportunity to trade him in a Phaneuf type 25% - 40% cap retention.

Melnyk won't buy him out when he is in liquidation mode. He is already paying 2/3rds of Alex Burrows' salary.

If Melnyk is cash poor buying out Bobby Ryan might be useful. While he doesn't save much money over the lifetime of the contract due to Ryan's signing bonuses and the cost of a replacement body (650k), it's basically a payment plan.

Instead of paying Ryan 7.5M next year, through buying him out he only has to pay Ryan 3.8M, and then a replacement player 650k for a total of 4.45M. So that's 3M he doesn't have to worry about each season for the next 3 seasons. If Melnyk is actually cash poor, that's a pretty good deal. An additional 3M in his pocket for each of the next three years is probably worth more to him than about 2M out of his pocket (due to the buyout) 4/5/6 years from now.
 

armani

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If Melnyk is cash poor buying out Bobby Ryan might be useful. While he doesn't save much money over the lifetime of the contract due to Ryan's signing bonuses and the cost of a replacement body (650k), it's basically a payment plan.

Instead of paying Ryan 7.5M next year, through buying him out he only has to pay Ryan 3.8M, and then a replacement player 650k for a total of 4.45M. So that's 3M he doesn't have to worry about each season for the next 3 seasons. If Melnyk is actually cash poor, that's a pretty good deal. An additional 3M in his pocket for each of the next three years is probably worth more to him than about 2M out of his pocket (due to the buyout) 4/5/6 years from now.

You sound very logical. Anti Melnyk. So what you are proposing maybe beneficial, but Melnyk won't buy him out, not when he is financially bleeding by the boycott. The noose is getting tighter from NCC and the City. Attendance is one issue, Lebreton is another - both super critical. Melnyk is living through dangerous and potentially disastrous times.

Ruddy and Bird are smart businessmen, they aren't happy. And won't let this slide. They can't let Melnyk f*** up their development plans.

Ryan can still be a win-win off ice.

Win Melnyk: Ryan helps him reach the cap floor with his untradable contract

Win Sens fans: Ryan helps drain Melnyk's pocketbook while the arena is empty, forcing his hands even more

On ice, Bobby Ryan is atrocious.
 
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Xspyrit

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The guy is clearly lacking confidence and has talked about his mental state before. He's the type of player that's very hard on himself and that gets down easily when things go south. I remember he and Wendel Clarke had talked when Ryan got really cold in one of his first years here and told him to play physically and just be a presence out there and eventually he would get back on track. It's been a problem with Ryan for a while and he's been pretty open about it.

Mentally weak might not be the best way to put it but I assume it was meant as a person that has a hard time being positive when time gets tough and that can be seen as mentally weak. It's unfortunate because the guy is often injured, has battled with a lot of adversity throughout his childhood and lately with the death of his mother. You can see he isn't the same player he was and his confidence just isn't there.

Low confidence is a killer in pro sports. You can have all the abilities necessary to be a good player, even hockey IQ, and end up out of the league in a hurry if you're not confident on the ice. There is no doubt in my mind that we need to move on from Ryan and that Ryan needs to move on from Ottawa. It just hasn't worked out, he needs a fresh start, he needs to enjoy being out there and it's just not happening here.

Effectively, since intensity is purely physical (in the context of that quote)

And if what you said after is true, it means that many people on this board are weak mentally as they have a really hard time ever being positive, particularly when the time gets tough! :laugh:

On ice, Ryan definitely is. I don't know him personally and am not callimg him that in life jtbc.

Ryan loses his confidence very easily, he starts to flop and treat the puck like a grenade unless something happens during a game (like a fluke goal by him) that sees him play with more confidence, using his body, winning puck battles, and be more productive. For a few stretches of games (in streak), before going back to his floppy ways when things start to go wrong.

His issue is more mental than his physical abilities, which unfortunately will continue to diminish with age.

Wait, you have made the statement that "Ryan is mentally weak" and then you quoted Brian Burke (of all people lmao) who says that he is not intense. He was obviously referring to his playing style on the ice, that he was not an intense player, which is true, Bobby Ryan lacks stamina and can't go on for long shifts. His game is all about skilled plays but it has to happen in 40-45 seconds before he runs out of gas.

Intensity in this case has NOTHING to do with being weak or strong mentally, it's purely physical. Crazy attempt to twist things to fit the stupid narrative that Ryan is "weak mentally". All the adversity he went through in life and the fact that he played quite a lot at the highest level of hockey (and be quite successful) might suggest otherwise.

Anyway, not targeting your post, but still funny reading all these degrading comments about NHL players from people behind a screen.

If we have to retain 3.5 + to trade him for nothing of any value .. Why not buy him out?

Buying him out could be an option next summer. It didn't make sense before but I guess it will. The cost will be spread out on 6 seasons and Melnyk still saves 5.5. You'll need to replace him by a young cheap player capable of putting 0.40-.70 PPG for 1 million per year, it means you need to add that cost.

Bobby Ryan Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
 

Boud

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Effectively, since intensity is purely physical (in the context of that quote)

And if what you said after is true, it means that many people on this board are weak mentally as they have a really hard time ever being positive, particularly when the time gets tough! :laugh:

I know you're kidding but it's different in that Ryan is the only one that can control his own play. We fans can't control how the team plays so it's different.
 

Yak

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Put him on waivers send him down to AHL for a bit to find his confidence or wake up call, guy needs a swift kick in the butt. He brings no value to rebuild and probably more harmful to.the development of the young players then helpful.

He should be working out like a monster with Gary Roberts in the off-season and with sports psychologists on his confidence and trying to fix his issues rather then sitting on the farm in the off-season watching the cows.
 

Do Make Say Think

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Put him on waivers send him down to AHL for a bit to find his confidence or wake up call, guy needs a swift kick in the butt. He brings no value to rebuild and probably more harmful to.the development of the young players then helpful.

He should be working out like a monster with Gary Roberts in the off-season and with sports psychologists on his confidence and trying to fix his issues rather then sitting on the farm in the off-season watching the cows.

He cannot be sent down to the AHL
 
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