TSN: Bob McKenzie with Toronto GM Dubas - Team does not intend to trade Nylander (ALL NYLANDER TALK HERE)

[bukwas]

While this should have been done been done as long as he doesn't miss games that matter it's fine, if he misses games in October then ownership needs to step in and get it done

No, they don't.
They need to let hockey people make the hockey decisions.

 

[angry pirate]

I think it does "mean much".

40 or so players who did it at Nylander's age was my initial point. There have been very few. It's actually a super impressive feat for any player............for all the Leaf haters who keep trying to down-play what he's done.

Oh yeah. And Matthews. And Marner.

Thx for the info.

Well this was your original post

LOL. What a dumb thing to say. He's 22 years old and has had 61 points in the NHL TWICE. Very few players have ever done that in the history of the game.

I wouldn't quite call him "elite" but he's very damned good.

Here is the list dating back 20 seasons. It's almost 40 players long.


Thornton
Gomez
Richards
Heatley
Gaborik
Kovalchuk
Spezza
Staal
Horton
Vanek
Ovechkin
Malkin
Crosby
Kopitar
Stastny
Toews
Backstrom
Kane
Stamkos
Tavares
Duchene* Lockout season. greater than .75 PPG needed. 70 next season.
Hall* Lockout season. Greater than .75 ppg needed. 80 next season.
Seguin
Forsberg
Draisaitl
Nylander
Ehlers
Pastrnak
Arvidsson
McDavid
Marner
Eichel* Can do it this year
Rantanen* Can do it this year
Barzal* Can do it this year
Aho* Can do it this year
Mathews
Laine
Keller*Can do it this year



So 33 Players have accomplished the feat in the last 20 years, with another 5 players trending toward accomplishing it.

Over 35% of this list have been drafted it in the last 5 years.

So while I think Nylander is an excellent player, and he definitely has himself in some impressive company, this exercise shows that the list of players who have ever hit Nylanders minimums is more extensive than very few.

I also know that pre 1997 that there are 90 rookies to equal or exceed 61 points. That number is only going to get bigger as you include 19, 20 and 21 year olds who were not rookies. I'd wager you are looking at a possible pool of 300+ players who've had at least 1 60 point season pre 1998 before the age of 21. Making this historic list of players to achieve this much bigger than "very few" I'd bet it's more than 100 having 2 61 point seasons with the 80's really propping it up.

It's also a bit of a moot point as many of the players on this list are on another level from Nylander and aren't comparable at all. If I had more time, and motivation, I'd be much more interested in seeing where the range of the standard deviation lies for Nylanders group and how many players were in it. After all, cherry picking his minimum 61/61 to create some prestigious group is pretty unfair. I'm sure there are lots of players who've only missed out on this by a point or two and are much more comparable to Nylander's.

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

While this should have been done been done as long as he doesn't miss games that matter it's fine, if he misses games in October then ownership needs to step in and get it done

As much as I'd like Nylander to be at camp from Day 1, I don't think it's that big a deal if he misses some games. It's more important to get his contract done right.

And I hope the days of ownership getting involved in hockey matters are over. I'm still traumatized from the Ballard years.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Leafs in a tailspin since Lou Lam left...

 

[CellarDweller0]

Anyone else here feel like the stats here support the argument that "very few" players have accomplished this? I mean, going back 20 yrs this list is quite short no?

Well this was your original post



Here is the list dating back 20 seasons. It's almost 40 players long.


Thornton
Gomez
Richards
Heatley
Gaborik
Kovalchuk
Spezza
Staal
Horton
Vanek
Ovechkin
Malkin
Crosby
Kopitar
Stastny
Toews
Backstrom
Kane
Stamkos
Tavares
Duchene* Lockout season. greater than .75 PPG needed. 70 next season.
Hall* Lockout season. Greater than .75 ppg needed. 80 next season.
Seguin
Forsberg
Draisaitl
Nylander
Ehlers
Pastrnak
Arvidsson
McDavid
Marner
Eichel* Can do it this year
Rantanen* Can do it this year
Barzal* Can do it this year
Aho* Can do it this year
Mathews
Laine
Keller*Can do it this year



So 33 Players have accomplished the feat in the last 20 years, with another 5 players trending toward accomplishing it.

Over 35% of this list have been drafted it in the last 5 years.

So while I think Nylander is an excellent player, and he definitely has himself in some impressive company, this exercise shows that the list of players who have ever hit Nylanders minimums is more extensive than very few.

I also know that pre 1997 that there are 90 rookies to equal or exceed 61 points. That number is only going to get bigger as you include 19, 20 and 21 year olds who were not rookies. I'd wager you are looking at a possible pool of 300+ players who've had at least 1 60 point season pre 1998 before the age of 21. Making this historic list of players to achieve this much bigger than "very few" I'd bet it's more than 100 having 2 61 point seasons with the 80's really propping it up.

It's also a bit of a moot point as many of the players on this list are on another level from Nylander and aren't comparable at all. If I had more time, and motivation, I'd be much more interested in seeing where the range of the standard deviation lies for Nylanders group and how many players were in it. After all, cherry picking his minimum 61/61 to create some prestigious group is pretty unfair. I'm sure there are lots of players who've only missed out on this by a point or two and are much more comparable to Nylander's.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Well this was your original post



Here is the list dating back 20 seasons. It's almost 40 players long.


Thornton
Gomez
Richards
Heatley
Gaborik
Kovalchuk
Spezza
Staal
Horton
Vanek
Ovechkin
Malkin
Crosby
Kopitar
Stastny
Toews
Backstrom
Kane
Stamkos
Tavares
Duchene* Lockout season. greater than .75 PPG needed. 70 next season.
Hall* Lockout season. Greater than .75 ppg needed. 80 next season.
Seguin
Forsberg
Draisaitl
Nylander
Ehlers
Pastrnak
Arvidsson
McDavid
Marner
Eichel* Can do it this year
Rantanen* Can do it this year
Barzal* Can do it this year
Aho* Can do it this year
Mathews
Laine
Keller*Can do it this year



So 33 Players have accomplished the feat in the last 20 years, with another 5 players trending toward accomplishing it.

Over 35% of this list have been drafted it in the last 5 years.

So while I think Nylander is an excellent player, and he definitely has himself in some impressive company, this exercise shows that the list of players who have ever hit Nylanders minimums is more extensive than very few.

I also know that pre 1997 that there are 90 rookies to equal or exceed 61 points. That number is only going to get bigger as you include 19, 20 and 21 year olds who were not rookies. I'd wager you are looking at a possible pool of 300+ players who've had at least 1 60 point season pre 1998 before the age of 21. Making this historic list of players to achieve this much bigger than "very few" I'd bet it's more than 100 having 2 61 point seasons with the 80's really propping it up.

It's also a bit of a moot point as many of the players on this list are on another level from Nylander and aren't comparable at all. If I had more time, and motivation, I'd be much more interested in seeing where the range of the standard deviation lies for Nylanders group and how many players were in it. After all, cherry picking his minimum 61/61 to create some prestigious group is pretty unfair. I'm sure there are lots of players who've only missed out on this by a point or two and are much more comparable to Nylander's.

LOL. Well I was talking about scoring 60+ points in their first two official seasons(25 games or more). In Nylander's case, he was 20 and 21 years old. So your list is a TAD wrong, Man.

- Joe Thornton never did it.
- Nathan Horton never did it.
- Jonathan Toews never did it.
- Hall never did it.
- Duchene never did it.
- Statsny never did it.
- Gaborik never did it.
- Ehlers never did it.
- Drasaitl never did it.
- Pastarnak never did it.
- Tavares never did it.
- Seguin never did it.
- Stamkos never did it.
- Arvidsson never did it.
- Eichel, Rantanen, Barzal, Aho, Keller MIGHT do it, but the fact is that they have NOT yet.

So once we correct your list and remove all the guys that didn't do what Nylander has done.......it's a tad more accurate and you can see how hard it is to do.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Yes, I realize that.

Doesn't mean he won't still ask for (and most likely deserve) top dollar, just as McDavid and Eichel did.

And obviously Seguin's more proven than Nylander.....if I'm Dubas I offer Nylander just a shade under $7 mil. Isn't that what Pasta and Ehlers are making?

What makes Nylander worth 7?

Nothing. There’s really no sound argument to say that Willy deserves more than Pastrnak ($6.6 million for 6 years) or Ehlers ($6 million for 7 years). Nylander should come in between those guys for 6-8 years, him asking for more, assuming that he is, is overrating himself. No way should he touch $7 million.

I can’t see Dubas lowballing him so much as to come under $6 million, so I’m assuming the two parties are playing chicken and waiting to see who blinks first. The Leafs can afford to wait, so I’m sure Nylander will step forward and sign soon, certainly before game 1 of the regular season.

 

[FerrisRox]

LMAO. In the history of the game, there have been THOUSANDS of players come and go.

Lets see how many you can name who have done it, at 20 & 21 years old, or even just in their first two seasons.

From a pool of thousands, it's VERY few.

Here, I'll start you off with a "first 8"..........how many more can you name?

- Wayne Gretzky
- Mario Lemieux
- Ron Francis
- Marcel Dionne
- Steve Yzerman
- Joe Sakic
- Ray Bourque
- Mark Recchi

Really? You want to double down on dumb?

Here's a list of guys that posted 60+ seasons twice before they were 22.

Connor McDavid
Brad Richards
Brian Bellows
Mark Messier
Dave Babych
Mario Lemieux
Jari Kurri
Steve Yzerman
Wayne Gretzky
Jimmy Carson
Trevor Linden
Phil Housley
Mark Recchi
Jeff Friesen
Denis Savard
Larry Murphy
Joe Sakic
Steven Stamkos
Mike Modano
Rod Brind'amour
Kirk Muller
Mats Sundin
Mike Gartner
Nicklas Backstrom
Bobby Carpenter
Anze Kopitar
Patrice Bergeron
Bryan Trottier
Evgeni Malkin
Michel Goulet
David Pastarnak
Jeremy Roenick
Owen Nolan
Filip Forsberg
Ron Francis
Dave Andreychuk
Paul Coffey
Mitch Marner
Scott Gomez
Mike Bossy
John Tavares
Marian Gaborik
Sean Monahan
Bobby Orr
Patrick Kane
Joe Thornton
Dale Hawerchuck
Sidney Crosby
Alex Ovechkin
Rob Brown
Luc Robitaille
Pavel Bure
Ilya Kovalchuk
Eric Lindros
Craig Simpson
Patrick Laine
Auston Matthews
Pierre Turgeon
Sylvain Turgeon
Jaromir Jagr

Again, I'll ask: what is your definition of very few?

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

is it true that he won't participate to the camp ?

 

[Menzinger]

is it true that he won't participate to the camp ?

Players who are not under contract or a PTO can’t attend camp

Edit: missed a word

 

[MoreMogilny]

Leafs in a tailspin since Lou Lam left...

Yeah they’ve won not even a single game since he left. What a joke of a franchise right?

 

[Menzinger]

Really? You want to double down on dumb?

Here's a list of guys that posted 60+ seasons twice before they were 22.

Connor McDavid
Brad Richards
Brian Bellows
Mark Messier
Dave Babych
Mario Lemieux
Jari Kurri
Steve Yzerman
Wayne Gretzky
Jimmy Carson
Trevor Linden
Phil Housley
Mark Recchi
Jeff Friesen
Denis Savard
Larry Murphy
Joe Sakic
Steven Stamkos
Mike Modano
Rod Brind'amour
Kirk Muller
Mats Sundin
Mike Gartner
Nicklas Backstrom
Bobby Carpenter
Anze Kopitar
Patrice Bergeron
Bryan Trottier
Evgeni Malkin
Michel Goulet
David Pastarnak
Jeremy Roenick
Owen Nolan
Filip Forsberg
Ron Francis
Dave Andreychuk
Paul Coffey
Mitch Marner
Scott Gomez
Mike Bossy
John Tavares
Marian Gaborik
Sean Monahan
Bobby Orr
Patrick Kane
Joe Thornton
Dale Hawerchuck
Sidney Crosby
Alex Ovechkin
Rob Brown
Luc Robitaille
Pavel Bure
Ilya Kovalchuk
Eric Lindros
Craig Simpson
Patrick Laine
Auston Matthews
Pierre Turgeon
Sylvain Turgeon
Jaromir Jagr

Again, I'll ask: what is your definition of very few?

You realize most of those players are elite or close to it.

So I don’t think you’re making the point you think you are with that list.....

 

[Menzinger]

Nothing. There’s really no sound argument to say that Willy deserves more than Pastrnak ($6.6 million for 6 years) or Ehlers ($6 million for 7 years). Nylander should come in between those guys for 6-8 years, him asking for more, assuming that he is, is overrating himself. No way should he touch $7 million.

I can’t see Dubas lowballing him so much as to come under $6 million, so I’m assuming the two parties are playing chicken and waiting to see who blinks first. The Leafs can afford to wait, so I’m sure Nylander will step forward and sign soon, certainly before game 1 of the regular season.

Actually there are some reasonable arguments.

Nylander posted two high scoring seasons prior to his negotiations, each of those other guys only had 1. And Nylander is gettinga. New contract under a confirmed raised cap.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Really? You want to double down on dumb?

Here's a list of guys that posted 60+ seasons twice before they were 22.

Connor McDavid
Brad Richards
Brian Bellows
Mark Messier
Dave Babych
Mario Lemieux
Jari Kurri
Steve Yzerman
Wayne Gretzky
Jimmy Carson
Trevor Linden
Phil Housley
Mark Recchi
Jeff Friesen
Denis Savard
Larry Murphy
Joe Sakic
Steven Stamkos
Mike Modano
Rod Brind'amour
Kirk Muller
Mats Sundin
Mike Gartner
Nicklas Backstrom
Bobby Carpenter
Anze Kopitar
Patrice Bergeron
Bryan Trottier
Evgeni Malkin
Michel Goulet
David Pastarnak
Jeremy Roenick
Owen Nolan
Filip Forsberg
Ron Francis
Dave Andreychuk
Paul Coffey
Mitch Marner
Scott Gomez
Mike Bossy
John Tavares
Marian Gaborik
Sean Monahan
Bobby Orr
Patrick Kane
Joe Thornton
Dale Hawerchuck
Sidney Crosby
Alex Ovechkin
Rob Brown
Luc Robitaille
Pavel Bure
Ilya Kovalchuk
Eric Lindros
Craig Simpson
Patrick Laine
Auston Matthews
Pierre Turgeon
Sylvain Turgeon
Jaromir Jagr

Again, I'll ask: what is your definition of very few?

I'm talking about doing that in their ROOKIE and SOPHOMORE seasons, genius.

Most of the guys on your list have not done it. Nylander has.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Players who are under contract or a PTO can’t attend camp

but still no discussion ?
Heard he wanted 8M lmao

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm talking about doing that in their ROOKIE and SOPHOMORE seasons, genius.

Didn't take you long to move the goal posts!

Classic!

 

[AllDay28]

why do people assume hes gonna get traded? Did Boston fans react like this whne Pastarnak didnt resign right away? I get that Torontos the center of the hockey universe but yikes.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Didn't take you long to move the goal posts!

Classic!

Um.......the Leafs have THREE players who have done just that, in the last two years. It's all many of us have talked about. Doesn't take much to figure it out.

Well, maybe for some it does.

 

[FerrisRox]

You realize most of those players are elite or close to it.

So I don’t think you’re making the point you think you are with that list.....

At what point did I ever suggest Nylander wasn't a great player?

The point I was making was that it was ridiculous to suggest that posting two 60 point seasons before he was 22 was something that "very few" players had ever done in the history of the league as HolyMackinaw hyperbolically claimed.

So I'm not quite sure what you think you are responding to, but it's certainly not anything that I ever said.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

The bubble is bursting...there is a reason McDavid is a captain and Matthews is not; hopefully this will stop those silly threads comparing the two.

 

[Menzinger]

At what point did I ever suggest Nylander wasn't a great player?

The point I was making was that it was ridiculous to suggest that posting two 60 point seasons before he was 22 was something that "very few" players had ever done in the history of the league as HolyMackinaw hyperbolically claimed.

So I'm not quite sure what you think you are responding to, but it's certainly not anything that I ever said.

Compare your list of players to the total number of players who have played in the NHL and it IS a fairly small number.

 

[FerrisRox]

Um.......the Leafs have THREE players who have done just that, in the last two years. It's all many of us have talked about. Doesn't take much to figure it out.

Well, maybe for some it does.

You have no idea when to take your ball and go home.

I truly feel sorry for you. This is an embarrassing display.

Very few posters in the history of this message board have doubled down on dumb like you have.

 

[bukwas]

The bubble is bursting...there is a reason McDavid is a captain and Matthews is not; hopefully this will stop those silly threads comparing the two.

Is this all you do?

BTW, you're #65.

 

[FerrisRox]

Compare your list of players to the total number of players who have played in the NHL and it IS a fairly small number.

So we're moving the goal posts again? Now its "fairly small number" compared to "very few players have done that in the history of the game"

Menzinger, you're a good poster and a knowledgeable poster ... why are you hitching your wagon to this guy and his ridiculous claim?

 

[Holymakinaw]

You have no idea when to take your ball and go home.

I truly feel sorry for you. This is an embarrassing display.

Very few posters in the history of this message board have doubled down on dumb like you have.

LOL. Being PROVEN to be hopelessly wrong got you down, little guy?

We're talking about doing something SPECIAL here, not just "guys who have scored 60+ points twice in their careers".