TSN: Bob McKenzie on Insider Trading: Leafs have preliminary contract talks with Jake Muzzin

[JT AM da real deal]

Even a 1st rounder can end up being a bust, so, it's still possible we end up losing Kadri for nada!

Yep it does occur but I like Dubie's pick with Sandin late in 1st round ... I have been high on him since day 1 of seeing him with Marlies. It would be great if he can repeat that type of pick again.

 

[Legion34]

Someone did this a couple of weeks ago, not sure but I think it was Zeke. It can be done.

I did it. It’s pretty easy to create a psychotically consistent line up filled with unprecedented dramatic overpayments on all dubas contracts AND fit Petro in for 10’million.

but I will wait for him to DEMAND it.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I can't see Dubas being this much of a jerk, but what if we signed Muzzin and Barrie to extensions before the end of the year, then traded them at the draft before the extensions kick in and any possible NTC/NMC.

You could get a bunch of assets, maybe aim for a similar return to what we gave up for Muzzin originally and then be fully stocked up going into July 1st looking for that elite RHD.

I highly doubt Dubas would ever do that. What message does that send to other players who could be UFA's and want to re-sign or UFA's from other teams who think about signing in Toronto.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I did it. It’s pretty easy to create a psychotically consistent line up filled with unprecedented dramatic overpayments on all dubas contracts AND fit Petro in for 10’million.

but I will wait for him to DEMAND it.

Talk about drama ...

 

[Joey Hoser]

I did it. It’s pretty easy to create a psychotically consistent line up filled with unprecedented dramatic overpayments on all dubas contracts AND fit Petro in for 10’million.

but I will wait for him to DEMAND it.

Overpaying 1 guy by about 1 million dollars = "unprecedented dramatic overypayments".

You must be new to the NHL.

 

[Legion34]

Overpaying 1 guy by about 1 million dollars = "unprecedented dramatic overypayments".

You must be new to the NHL.

haha. You must be new to the boards. That was a very common theme from a poster here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

haha. You must be new to the boards. That was a very common theme from a poster here.

And you thought it was so intelligent that you adopted the phrase for yourself?

Perhaps you should just say what you mean in the future. There are so may posts/posters here that it's just not possible to keep up with everything so if you say something you don't really mean, you have zero reason to expect people to understand that. I'm here almost every day and during the week I'm here a lot and I have no idea what this "common theme" is or who the poster is. And please don't bother filling me in because no, I don't care. There's enough nonsense here on a daily basis so I'm only grateful if I've missed some of it.

 

[Legion34]

And you thought it was so intelligent that you adopted the phrase for yourself?

Perhaps you should just say what you mean in the future. There are so may posts/posters here that it's just not possible to keep up with everything so if you say something you don't really mean, you have zero reason to expect people to understand that. I'm here almost every day and during the week I'm here a lot and I have no idea what this "common theme" is or who the poster is. And please don't bother filling me in because no, I don't care. There's enough nonsense here on a daily basis so I'm only grateful if I've missed some of it.

hmmmm personally I don’t see how anyone can miss posters posting literally thousands of posts in unabomber style text with random caps and. Ridiculous punctuation. Going on a message board to read messages and never noticing that? It’s like going nascar and never seeing a crash.

Surprising. But I’m happy for you if you can. Ignorance is bliss in this instance.

EDIT. Actually yes I forgot about the ignore feature. Some people probably use it better than I do. My mistake.

 

[DJIncognito]

4 years $4 Mil and I'm in

 

[JEI]

On the Leafs Report they talked about the idea that he could be signed to a contract that doesn't include a NMC and then expose him to the expansion draft in the 2020-2021 off-season.

 

[Martin Skoula]

On the Leafs Report they talked about the idea that he could be signed to a contract that doesn't include a NMC and then expose him to the expansion draft in the 2020-2021 off-season.

That could be interesting if they front load it and let Seattle only have to pay 2/3 of his contract in actual cash. He gets his money, Seattle gets a guy who could play #2D for them for cheap, we're not stuck with 35 year old Muzzin and don't need to lose anyone else to the draft.

 

[GiveYourHeadaShake]

I've supported Nylander forever but still to this day it seems like whenever Nylander has a strong game we lost the game or the leafs completely blew out the other team. I've yet to recall a tight game that leafs won because of Nylander. If trading him gets us back an equivalent asset on defense. I'm all for it.

The Leafs have been in 12 one goal games this year, and Nylander has scored 9 goals in those games. It took exactly 37 seconds to look it up. He scores in as many games they win as they lose.

This "anti-fact"/ "my belly tells me this" fake reality that permeates all of these Leafs message boards never ceases to entertain. I'm not a Leafs fan, but I would gladly trade your GM and the Leafs problems for my team's GM and ours.

What is true is that 30 other teams would make room for WN and his "bad" contract. Or all the other "bad" contracts that KD has stuck the Leafs with. A "bad" contract is not one where a guy gets $6.9 million to be in the top 20 or 40 in goal scoring. A bad contract is Louis Eriksson, Karl Alzner, Jay Beagle, Milan Lucic, Brent Seabrook, etc.

Even if it was true for 10 or 20 games, you don't trade Nylander because he scored in not-close games instead of close games. Especially when the team he is on does not play very many of those games, to be even more so with the new coach. The concept of "clutch" is pretty much synonymous with "luck". You could look up that in 37 seconds also. (Except for J. Williams in 3 playoff finals, "clutch" has never been replicated. Even Williams is only .02% PPG better for his career in the playoffs than the regular season)

And you don't trade a top 20 or 40 goal scorer to overcome injuries to your top 2 defensemen for 6 or 8 weeks. There is no "equivalent" defence man out there to trade for. None of the top 40 defensemen in the NHL are being traded. The mythic "equivalent D-man" is a unicorn. When a team forces the issue, it trades a top 20 goal scorer for Adam Larsson and the team sucks and the GM loses his job. Or it dumps the good forward contract and spends $5 or $6 million on an Alzner. (GM losing job on this one is pending.)

The more blow outs Nylander is contributing to, the less relevant is it to go find a defence stop gap to make the game scores closer . So be careful what you wish for.

 

[Menzinger]

On the Leafs Report they talked about the idea that he could be signed to a contract that doesn't include a NMC and then expose him to the expansion draft in the 2020-2021 off-season.

The expansion draft certainly opens up some interesting potential here.

Leafs also likely able to do some interesting salary strucutres with bonuses that he may not get with other teams.

If the Leafs want him, they probably will get him

 

[hullsy47]

Sign tanev
Sign muzzin
Trade dermott

Rielly. Tanev
Muzzin lily
Sandin. Holl

As muzzin and tanevs contracts expire sandin and lily move up

I agree trade dermott if he asked for more than holl

 

[Maple Leaf]

I agree trade dermott if he asked for more than holl

Sign dermott and trade holl

 

[Nylander88]

Due to age, footspeed, and style...I wouldn't want to go long term and definitely not higher than 5.5mil per. Something like 5.5m per x 2yrs, 5m per x 3yrs, 4.5m per x 4 years would work for me. I like him and his style but the contract if heavy won't age well imo. Hopefully he wants to be a Leaf and stay close to home

 

[Nylander88]

Sign tanev
Sign muzzin
Trade dermott

Rielly. Tanev
Muzzin lily
Sandin. Holl

As muzzin and tanevs contracts expire sandin and lily move up

Don't hate this. Would miss Dermott but sometimes that's the way it goes. Maybe Dermott on his off side if Lily doesn't prove ready. But looks like a D core much more capable of playing defence than this offensive style we go with

 

[ShaneFalco]

Sign dermott and trade holl

Why would we trade Holl?

 

[nuck]

4 years $4 Mil and I'm in

But nobody takes a pay cut on what is basically their last contract and his salary this year was $4.45M. How much above that the club has to go depends on the term they give. Four years is on the short term side. I don't think he would have the stones to demand six years but I don't think he would accept four either.

I expect they will offer $5+ per. Maybe $5.5 x 5 and his ask will be higher based on deals like the older Stralman getting $5.5. and the not very good Myers getting $6. They have the front loading advantage to basically give more value per dollar by paying sooner but Dubas has been giving that away and getting no consideration back on his other deals, so it will likely happen but won't save any real coin.

I think the Canucks paid a premium for Myers as Canadian teams in general are not hot UFA destinations and at the time of signing they were 4 years in the bottom 10 of the league so the $6M might be Muzzins ask but the club doesn't pay that.

 

[Menzinger]

But nobody takes a pay cut on what is basically their last contract and his salary this year was $4.45M. How much above that the club has to go depends on the term they give. Four years is on the short term side. I don't think he would have the stones to demand six years but I don't think he would accept four either.

I expect they will offer $5+ per. Maybe $5.5 x 5 and his ask will be higher based on deals like the older Stralman getting $5.5. and the not very good Myers getting $6. They have the front loading advantage to basically give more value per dollar by paying sooner but Dubas has been giving that away and getting no consideration back on his other deals, so it will likely happen but won't save any real coin.

I think the Canucks paid a premium for Myers as Canadian teams in general are hot UFS destinations and at the time of signing they were 4 years in the bottom 10 of the league so the $6M might be Muzzins ask but the club doesn't pay that.

I could see the Leafs maybe doing 6 mil if hed agree to 4 years or less of term.

 

[nuck]

I agree trade dermott if he asked for more than holl

It might be trade Dermott regardless. If Holl finishes out the year strong they need to keep him. They don't have many bargain contracts. If they then retain Rielly and Muzzin that's the three they can protect for the X draft and it comes down to trade Dermott this summer or trade him next. Is he playing well enough to be above Sandin in ice time? If not you need to shift him to the right and will he be good enough there to help? I have seen other posters talk about how TD has played RD a fair bit over the years but is he actually as effective there as at left?

I see Holl and Lily at RD for the future. Will Dermott be able to force either of them down in the lineup? Doe he make the team better than acquiring a veteran natural RD to play top 4? Do they get good value for him playing 3rd pairing off side? Maybe it just comes down to trade value because if he can't get them a solid return this year then he should be kept and they worry about trimming for the X draft next year. Maybe Holl wilts and Dermott shines at RD by this time next year? Or maybe the club's due diligence already says he can't be a solution on the right side so his days as a Leaf are numbered..

To me he may have value enough to combine with AJ to get the club a legit top 4 righty for this playoff. They need to explore what he can bring them now. He isn't hurting them but he isn't getting the same use or generating points like last year either. Is he a desirable commodity in the market place today?

 

[TheDoldrums]

Okay I do think an extension is going to happen.



This might seem like nothing to most people, but Mirtle defending the notion of extending Muzzin in replies (there are a couple more in that thread) is a big sign to me. I've always felt he's had the closest sources to the team and I don't think he'd be making the case like this unless he thought it was going to happen. Just my opinion.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I could see the Leafs maybe doing 6 mil if hed agree to 4 years or less of term.

4 years is likely where it will end up i hope. To me 6M is too high for 4 years. 5M feels right. 3 years at 6M i could see. That last 4th year may look a lot like Marleau's deal where we are screwed. But my biggest fear is we give him the 5th year and then get stuck with a bad contract. GM's tend to not care because it becomes the next guys issue. At 5 years I think we have to let him go to UFA. I hate to do it but we can't keep getting rooked by everyone for a year or two of pay me for nothing.

 

[Suntouchable13]

4 years is likely where it will end up i hope. To me 6M is too high for 4 years. 5M feels right. 3 years at 6M i could see. That last 4th year may look a lot like Marleau's deal where we are screwed. But my biggest fear is we give him the 5th year and then get stuck with a bad contract. GM's tend to not care because it becomes the next guys issue. At 5 years I think we have to let him go to UFA. I hate to do it but we can't keep getting rooked by everyone for a year or two of pay me for nothing.

If you win the Stanley Cup, you don't care about those "pay me for nothing" years. I just want them to do whatever it takes to win.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If you win the Stanley Cup, you don't care about those "pay me for nothing" years. I just want them to do whatever it takes to win.

Marleau screwed us over. It hurt us on CAP this year and it will hurt again next year without our 1st rounder. I mean i agree a Cup trumps all. But we can't keep doing it. 2 rotten years is too much in today's CAP world.