TSN: Bob McKenzie on Insider Trading: Leafs have preliminary contract talks with Jake Muzzin

[BertCorbeau]

Which one of these is the years?

Does it matter? Either way they are bad contracts

 

[Duke Silver]

Does it matter? Either way they are bad contracts

Fully agree. Just trying to gauge just how stupid the suggestion was.

 

[MyBudJT]

I know people are skeptical about term, but we need to do what we can to get that AAV down as much as possible.

My suggestion... 6 yrs x 5M AAV, front loaded.

 

[Americanadian]

My guess is 5.5x3/4 years.

 

[qqaz]

I know people are skeptical about term, but we need to do what we can to get that AAV down as much as possible.

My suggestion... 6 yrs x 5M AAV, front loaded.

I tend to agree. 6 years is too much term, but if it can be used to get the average to 5 million or less, I'm ok with it.

If the AAV can be less than 5 without going that far on term, then even better. But I have a feeling that won't be possible. Hope Dubas surprises.

 

[Bluelines]

Yup hopefully package Dermott and one of our young forwards for a guy to play with Rielly.

All though both are quality depth players, Kap is at best a 6 to 9 forward and Dermot at best is a #4 dman. Which GM will trade a #2 Dman for a #4 dman and a 6 to 9 forward? Like they said last night on the game, if the Leafs want a guy to play with Rielly, the other team will want Sandin or Robertson, +.

At this point I'm fine with no trades at the TDL, unless we are moving out an expiring UFA contract for something that helps us down the road. GM's make so many desperate mistakes at the TDL, Dubas needs to show some stones/ maturity and not make a trade for short term gain / long term pain.

 

[francis246]

I know people are skeptical about term, but we need to do what we can to get that AAV down as much as possible.

My suggestion... 6 yrs x 5M AAV, front loaded.

no way

 

[justafan22]

My guess is 5.5x3/4 years.

I'd do 5.5 x 4 in a heartbeat.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I'd do 5.5 x 4 in a heartbeat.

I'd take that but I'd prefer 3 years. A Stralman like deal would be great.

 

[Legion34]

Expansion question.

say we extend muzz. I think they would structure the deal to be unacceptable for Seattle. A poison pill like montreal tried on aho.


Full signing bonuses in the year of and after the draft. So basically if they draft him June 2021. Then they would have to pay a massive SB on July 1 and the next year. 2 big cash payouts I. 12 months is huge for an expansion team.

the only way they could take muzz then is to trade him to a team that needs help.

IF the leafs gave muzz a full NTC for the expansion year. I know Seattle could take him. But then would they have to honour the clause. Or could they flip him wherever?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Expansion question.

say we extend muzz. I think they would structure the deal to be unacceptable for Seattle. A poison pill like montreal tried on aho.


Full signing bonuses in the year of and after the draft. So basically if they draft him June 2021. Then they would have to pay a massive SB on July 1 and the next year. 2 big cash payouts I. 12 months is huge for an expansion team.

the only way they could take muzz then is to trade him to a team that needs help.

IF the leafs gave muzz a full NTC for the expansion year. I know Seattle could take him. But then would they have to honour the clause. Or could they flip him wherever?

They would have to honour the NTC. More than likely Seattle would just take Holl, assuming he is still good.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'd take that but I'd prefer 3 years. A Stralman like deal would be great.

I think that is justifiable for Muzzin, especially if he wanted to stay in Toronto. I think he knows teams are not going to hand a guy like him a big money contract, so it likely wouldn't get better than that anyways.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

All though both are quality depth players, Kap is at best a 6 to 9 forward and Dermot at best is a #4 dman. Which GM will trade a #2 Dman for a #4 dman and a 6 to 9 forward? Like they said last night on the game, if the Leafs want a guy to play with Rielly, the other team will want Sandin or Robertson, +.

At this point I'm fine with no trades at the TDL, unless we are moving out an expiring UFA contract for something that helps us down the road. GM's make so many desperate mistakes at the TDL, Dubas needs to show some stones/ maturity and not make a trade for short term gain / long term pain.

Young forwards can play much more quickly in league. Young defense you can't give up on like that. That is crazy.

Rielly is just starting to come into his own this year. A likely #1 guy next year.
Muzz is the finished product. A strong #2/3 guy.
Holl is still developing. He went from a 7th guy to a 4/5 guy in span of 1 year.
Dermy is still a baby. No one on here and no one in Leafland have any idea how much Dermy can progress. Do you realize he is only 23? He is learning in the NHL. We won't know where he will get for another 2-3 years. Those kinda guys who can skate and play with an edge are hard to find.
We are developing a defense in the NHL. Most teams do it in the minors.

 

[MarMarSab3]

3 x 5.5 or 4 x 5 is how I hope this goes

 

[Joey Hoser]

I'd take that but I'd prefer 3 years. A Stralman like deal would be great.

Thats pretty optimistic. Hard to imagine he couldn't do a lot better than that on the open market.
The days of 7/8 year deals for guys his age might be over, but I'm sure he can do better, still.

 

[Menzinger]

All though both are quality depth players, Kap is at best a 6 to 9 forward and Dermot at best is a #4 dman. Which GM will trade a #2 Dman for a #4 dman and a 6 to 9 forward? Like they said last night on the game, if the Leafs want a guy to play with Rielly, the other team will want Sandin or Robertson, +.

At this point I'm fine with no trades at the TDL, unless we are moving out an expiring UFA contract for something that helps us down the road. GM's make so many desperate mistakes at the TDL, Dubas needs to show some stones/ maturity and not make a trade for short term gain / long term pain.

Well, Poulin suggested that, and hes wrong on almost everything.

I think a combo of Dermott + Kap could get a prettt good defender. Kap alone i think may surprise some folks at how much value he might return if traded

 

[BertCorbeau]

Thats pretty optimistic. Hard to imagine he couldn't do a lot better than that on the open market.
The days of 7/8 year deals for guys his age might be over, but I'm sure he can do better, still.

He'll be 31 next summer. Age isn't on his side for a 5/6 year deal IMO when his mobility is already showing signs of slowing.

Comparables over the last few off-seasons for similar aged d-men:

Stralman (32) 3 x $5.5 AAV
Edler (33) 2 x $6 AAV
Hjalmersson (31) 2 x $5 AAV
J Johnson (31) 5 x $3.25 AAV
Green (32) 2 x $5.375
Russell (30) 4 x $4 AAV

It's rare to see a 30 d-man get long term and the dollar amount. The recent trend is higher AAV but shorter term. Sign me up for 3 years or less of Muzz.

 

[jaric1862]

I wonder how the leafs fit in Muzzin and also add another defender with term to the back end

 

[Rokker]

I wonder how the leafs fit in Muzzin and also add another defender with term to the back end

You can clear roughly 6 mill in cap by flipping a Ceci and Johnsson, assuming Muzzin takes a deal around 5 mill.

You could bring in a Dumba or Manson. Not with those pieces only - but that would be the cap that would have to be moved out.

There's also the possibility of retention.

 

[jaric1862]

You can clear roughly 6 mill in cap by flipping a Ceci and Johnsson, assuming Muzzin takes a deal around 5 mill.

You could bring in a Dumba or Manson. Not with those pieces only - but that would be the cap that would have to be moved out.

There's also the possibility of retention.

Its all fine and dandy for this year, yes. But next year they need to re-sign Engvall, Mikheyev, and Dermott who will all be due for pay raises.

 

[Big Muddy]

He'll be 31 next summer. Age isn't on his side for a 5/6 year deal IMO when his mobility is already showing signs of slowing.

Comparables over the last few off-seasons for similar aged d-men:

Stralman (32) 3 x $5.5 AAV
Edler (33) 2 x $6 AAV
Hjalmersson (31) 2 x $5 AAV
J Johnson (31) 5 x $3.25 AAV
Green (32) 2 x $5.375
Russell (30) 4 x $4 AAV

It's rare to see a 30 d-man get long term and the dollar amount. The recent trend is higher AAV but shorter term. Sign me up for 3 years or less of Muzz.

Myers got 5 years. Gardiner got 4 years. Both about the same age as Muzzin.

I'm guessing a 4 year term would be about as good as it would get for us.

 

[sxvnert]

Its all fine and dandy for this year, yes. But next year they need to re-sign Engvall, Mikheyev, and Dermott who will all be due for pay raises.

All three will end up signing a bridge deal. Engvall & Mik because of their low games played and Dermott because of his questionable play.

 

[Kiwi]

I'd take that but I'd prefer 3 years. A Stralman like deal would be great.

I'd prefer 3 years as well but I'd take 4 at a 5.5M AAV

Muzzin is the most important defenseman on the team and nobody in the system (That I can see anyway) can eat tough minutes and elevate his partner like he can

He insulates the entire defensive core, especially if were going to be blooding a bunch of kids next season

 

[Rokker]

Its all fine and dandy for this year, yes. But next year they need to re-sign Engvall, Mikheyev, and Dermott who will all be due for pay raises.

Fair. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

I think those 9+ million dollar top 9 guys (Kap, Mango, Kerfoot) is the key to clearing cap, though

 

[TDotMassive]

If the term is over 3 years and the cap hit over $6m then pass for me.

I'd be good even with a 5x5 contract. He is clearly our best D in the d-zone (by a wide margin) and the only player on the team to put any fear into the opposition.