TSN: Bob McKenzie on Insider Trading: Leafs have preliminary contract talks with Jake Muzzin

[BertCorbeau]

I would hope that they have some preliminary talks ahead of the deadline. Sign him if it's reasonable.

3-4 years around $5-$5.5 mill AAV would be fair. Similar to the Stralman and Myers deals from last off-season.

 

[Orfieus]

Why are people trying to trade Dermott? He's immensely valuable to this team

Rielly > Muzzin
Muzzin > Sandin
Sandin > Dermott
Dermott > Marincin

Dermott is better than Sandin right now but Sandin is very clearly the better player overall (I've watched pretty much every game of his since he was drafted, my opinion of him is more than what I saw last night)

Rielly -???
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren

Trade Dermott ++ for a good partner for Rielly

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Again, if Nylander's 6.9 gets you a UFA defenceman, then why couldn't they find another way to shed 6.9 in salary ?

They could even get another forever LTIR guy and pay with that.

To make a blanket statement that Nylander has to go for a D to come in is just not true, you never know what could happen or what they are working on.

I for 1 don't think Nylander is going anywhere and I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in more D help.

You seem to be arguing that it's within the realm of possibility to trade away all our depth, and sign a $10 mill aav defenseman, and then have 60% of our cap tied up on 5 players.

Sure.

That's within the realm of possibility.

But it's not practical.

I would love for you to show me a way (that makes the team better) that the leafs can sign an approx $10 mil superstar ufa defenseman, keep the big 4, and fill out the rest of the lineup.

I would love to see it.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

We should package him with David Steckel and make a bid for Nigel Cadbury.

 

[m1ker]

They have way more options than just trading Nylander.

That's just the Nylander hate coming through.

I've supported Nylander forever but still to this day it seems like whenever Nylander has a strong game we lost the game or the leafs completely blew out the other team. I've yet to recall a tight game that leafs won because of Nylander. If trading him gets us back an equivalent asset on defense. I'm all for it.

 

[18leafsfan18]

You seem to be arguing that it's within the realm of possibility to trade away all our depth, and sign a $10 mill aav defenseman, and then have 60% of our cap tied up on 5 players.

Sure.

That's within the realm of possibility.

But it's not practical.

I would love for you to show me a way (that makes the team better) that the leafs can sign an approx $10 mil superstar ufa defenseman, keep the big 4, and fill out the rest of the lineup.

I would love to see it.

Not sure how you are unloading Nylander for that $10 mil UFA Defenceman in the first place.

But, basically do exactly your plan for trading Nylander to get that defenceman, clearing 6.9 mil.

Instead of trading Nylander to open up the 6.9 mil, trade 2 of Johnsson/Kapanen/Kerfoot.

If you assume the 4th line stays similar.

Current Lineup:

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Engvall - Tavares - Nylander
Johnsson - Kerfoot - Kapanen
Timnashov - Spezza - Goat (Or equivalent cheap players)

That 3rd line would lose 2 players who are replaced with 2 of the following:

Brooks, Moore, Mikheyev, Bracco, Petan, Marchment, Agostino, Wilson (if he resigned) etc.

The teams biggest need is D, so doing this IMO does make the team better, the 3rd line isn't exactly lighting the league on fire.

This is just one route also, there could me infinitely more possibilities, as I have said multiple times.

Edit: added word "mil" in first line before someone comes up with the "hilarious" joke that a D would be worth $10

 

[18leafsfan18]

I've supported Nylander forever but still to this day it seems like whenever Nylander has a strong game we lost the game or the leafs completely blew out the other team. I've yet to recall a tight game that leafs won because of Nylander. If trading him gets us back an equivalent asset on defense. I'm all for it.

Not sure I agree with when Nylander has a strong game its a blowout or we lost, seems like something that would take a lot of research.

I do agree with anything to make the team way better I'm all for.

However, that wasn't the argument. This was about clearing money to sign a big UFA, all I mentioned is that there are other ways to clear that money.

 

[Northernguy10]

Why are people trying to trade Dermott? He's immensely valuable to this team

I don't get it either...He's exactly what we need going forward...Fast, mobile, a little grit and he's only going to get better imo.

 

[genk]

If the Leafs sign Muzzin, there’s no way Rielly is around next year.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If the Leafs sign Muzzin, there’s no way Rielly is around next year.

Why Rielly? Could be Dermott.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Not sure how you are unloading Nylander for that $10 UFA Defenceman in the first place.

But, basically do exactly your plan for trading Nylander to get that defenceman, clearing 6.9 mil.

Instead of trading Nylander to open up the 6.9 mil, trade 2 of Johnsson/Kapanen/Kerfoot.

If you assume the 4th line stays similar.

Current Lineup:

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Engvall - Tavares - Nylander
Johnsson - Kerfoot - Kapanen
Timnashov - Spezza - Goat (Or equivalent cheap players)

That 3rd line would lose 2 players who are replaced with 2 of the following:

Brooks, Moore, Mikheyev, Bracco, Petan, Marchment, Agostino, Wilson (if he resigned) etc.

The teams biggest need is D, so doing this IMO does make the team better, the 3rd line isn't exactly lighting the league on fire.

This is just one route also, there could me infinitely more possibilities, as I have said multiple times.

It would have to be Nylander and more. Like Kappy or Johnsson. And that doesn’t even include filling their positions for a 2nd and 3rd liner, and filling out literally all the other D positions.

Lol, sorry man, leafs can’t get a star ufa defenseman unless one of the big 4 go.

 

[genk]

Why Rielly? Could be Dermott.

Could be, but I think the league values highly offensive defencemen, and Rielly could be used to acquire a talented RD. Plus, Rielly has shown he’s fairly weak defensively.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I would love for you to show me a way (that makes the team better) that the leafs can sign an approx $10 mil superstar ufa defenseman, keep the big 4, and fill out the rest of the lineup.

I would love to see it.

Someone did this a couple of weeks ago, not sure but I think it was Zeke. It can be done.

 

[18leafsfan18]

It would have to be Nylander and more. Like Kappy or Johnsson. And that doesn’t even include filling their positions for a 2nd and 3rd liner, and filling out literally all the other D positions.

Lol, sorry man, leafs can’t get a star ufa defenseman unless one of the big 4 go.

You can't even explain how you would remove Nylander for a UFA D.

I included filling in the positions of players that would be leaving... You brought up this fairly ridicules scenario and you don't even have an answer for your own statement.

So how can you justify that being the "only way you can do it" ?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You can't even explain how you would remove Nylander for a UFA D.

I included filling in the positions of players that would be leaving... You brought up this fairly ridicules scenario and you don't even have an answer for your own statement.

So how can you justify that being the "only way you can do it" ?

I’m not sure it’s feasible even with trading Nylander. But not trading him and making it happen? Completely unreasonable.

Do you think it’s reasonable for a team to have 60% of the cap tied up on 5 players?

 

[ponder]

Love everything about Muzzin except his handedness. By far the toughest, most punishing hitter on the team, very good defensively, surprisingly solid offensively.

If we keep all of Rielly/Muzzin/Dermott/Sandin, though, one of them is going to have to get comfortable/effective on the right side. That, or we trade one of them. I like them all, but Muzzin is the only one we risk losing for nothing, so it could make sense to re-sign Muzzin (if he’ll sign a reasonable deal), and move one of the others for an RD.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Assuming Muzzin wants to stay on reasonable terms, something will have to give next season:

Rielly-?
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Liljegren

Dermott would be the odd man out unless he plays the wrong side, which isn't ideal. Sandin is too good to not crack the starting lineup.

Derms has played right side since he was a kid. And in junior and with Marlies. This is not even a big deal. That was Babs talk. No issue here.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

I agree with the consensus here that we can't go over 3 years or above 5.5 aav. If he walks I'm ok with that. I like the player, but our left side will be fine without him starting next season.

 

[Advanced stats]

If the Leafs sign Muzzin, there’s no way Rielly is around next year.

What? That's bonkers.

Yes yes, let's trade our guy who was top 5 in Norris voting last year while his value is low..

 

[StevenB]

He’s a great player but his lack of foot speed is only going to get worse from here. It’d be a mistake signing him for more than 3 years at more than 5M. 3x5 is the absolute most I’d pay him. Anything more than that and he can walk. We have the depth.
Rielly-Holl
Sandin-Dermott
?-Liljegren

Without Ceci/Barrie/Muzzin I’m sure we’ll have more than enough cap space for an upgrade on those lines. Maybe we re-sign Barrie, who knows?

 

[Advanced stats]

Next year:

Rielly - Holl
Muzzin - Dermott
Sandin - Lilly

Upgrade that right side in a UFA deal and call it done.

 

[TheShape]

I want Muzzin re-signed but Dubas needs to be very, very careful on the term.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

If the Leafs sign Muzzin, there’s no way Rielly is around next year.

I'd let Muzzin walk well well well before even considering signing him and which would force a Rielly trade. Rielly is much better, younger, a bigger part of this team and will be cheaper than what Muzzin will get.

This just seems like a foolish suggestion any which way you slice it.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I’m not sure it’s feasible even with trading Nylander. But not trading him and making it happen? Completely unreasonable.

Do you think it’s reasonable for a team to have 60% of the cap tied up on 5 players?

It's not completely unreasonable that's the point. A lot can change between now and then. Just look at last off season, did you honestly think they would make the moves they did, no one did.

Yeah I completely think it's reasonable to have 60 % of the cap tied up, but just for the record, you are rounding that to 60% (Actually is 55.8%), plus you are not accounting for the rising cap, plus not accounting for the LTIR usage that this team is using.

The last 4 Stanley cup winners were at:

St Louis - 41%
Washington - 48%
Pittsburgh - 52% (54% With Kessel full hit)
Pittsburgh - 53% (55% With Kessel full hit)

Completely reasonable.

 

[genk]

I get that a Rielly has been a big part of this team for a long time, but he just isn’t doing a good job defensively. Even last year, in what was unquestionably his best season with the Leafs, he wasn’t good at defending.